Aaah - spotted a makefile in extra. The ol' make install seems to have cracked it.
Apologies for noise.
Julian
On 24 May 2013 02:32, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Hi again,
Just noticed I don't have any of the 'extra' objects. They're in 'extra' but wont instantiate. Am I missing something obvious here?
Cheers,
Julian
On 23 May 2013 15:59, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Oh sorry - meant to add.
I have alsa-base and alsa-utils only. Worked fine
On 23 May 2013 15:58, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
"cd to src and hit 'make -f makefile.gnu'."
Yip yip - that did it.
Marvelous:)
Many thanks,
Julian
On 23 May 2013 12:40, Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu wrote:
Actually I never use the "autoget" system - I just cd to src and hit 'make -f makefile.gnu'.
But I think yes you ned tk8.5 devel, plus the alsa libraries (alsa-devel?)
cheers M
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 09:34:45AM +0100, Julian Brooks wrote:
Hello Miller,
Thanks for wading in with this.
Failed here in 'make' (and hope I've included all the necessary info)
mv -f .deps/stdout.Tpo .deps/stdout.Plo /bin/bash ../../libtool --tag=CC --mode=link gcc -O6 -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-pointer -module -avoid-version -shared -shrext .pd_linux -L../../src -o stdout.la -rpath /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/stdout
stdout.lo
-lpthread -ldl libtool: link: gcc -shared -fPIC -DPIC .libs/stdout.o -L../../src -lpthread -ldl -O6 -Wl,-soname -Wl,stdout.pd_linux -o .libs/stdout.pd_linux libtool: link: ( cd ".libs" && rm -f "stdout.la" && ln -s "../
stdout.la" "
stdout.la" ) make[3]: Leaving directory
/root/pure-data/extra/stdout' make[3]: Entering directory/root/pure-data/extra' make[3]: Nothing to be done forall-am'. make[3]: Leaving directory/root/pure-data/extra' make[2]: Leaving directory/root/pure-data/extra' make[2]: Entering directory/root/pure-data' make[2]: *** No rule to make targetdoc/5.reference/sublist-help.pd', needed byall-am'. Stop. make[2]: Leaving directory/root/pure-data' make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory/root/pure-data' make: *** [all] Error 2Couple of (possibly dumb) questions
Do I need to install tk8.5 (-dev or not)?
When running './autgen.sh'
Are these lines relevant: libtoolize: Consider adding `AC_CONFIG_MACRO_DIR([m4])' to
configure.in and
libtoolize: rerunning libtoolize, to keep the correct libtool macros in-tree. libtoolize: Consider adding `-I m4' to ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS in Makefile.am.
Don't have enough experience with building from source to know
whether it's
being automagically sorted or they could do with a helping hand, or
it's
just not important at all?
It seems to me that the build process and instructions (INSTALL.txt)
have
become simpler/clearer? If so, thank you.
On the various RPi images I've been putting together, I have always
had a
go at building (more for my own satisfaction) and given up in a huff
when I
kept falling over at early stages. Then installing from raspbian
repo's,
sticking on the pre-built most recent from your site and linking to
./pd
via bash. Works fine but isn't quite satisfactory somehow.
Anyway.
Hope we can get it going (I'm going to sit tight this time).
Regards,
Julian
On 23 May 2013 04:09, Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu wrote:
Looks like x_array.c and x_scalar.c were missing from the file list
in
Makefile.am (I just added these files) - try to update the source
and
recompile now...
cheers Miller
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 03:03:47AM +0100, Julian Brooks wrote: > Hi, > > Been wanting to do this for a while but it always keeps failing
so could
do > with some tips. > > I have the source from git > > git clone git:// pure-data.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/pure-data/pure-data > > Then (as it's a minimal RPi image) have installed > automake (and dependencies: autoconf, autotools-dev, m4, libtool, gettext) > > Also added libasound2-dev and tk8.5-dev (not sure if tk required?) > > When running > > ./autogen.sh > then > ./configure > and finally > make (I ran make previously so much shorter bit before it fails. > > I get this: > > autoreconf: Entering directory `.' > autoreconf: configure.ac: not using Gettext > autoreconf: running: aclocal --force -I m4/generated -I m4 > ^[[B^[[Bautoreconf: configure.ac: tracing > autoreconf: configure.ac: adding subdirectory portaudio to
autoreconf
> autoreconf: Entering directory
portaudio' > autoreconf: configure.in: not using Gettext > autoreconf: running: aclocal --force > autoreconf: configure.in: tracing > autoreconf: configure.in: subdirectory bindings/cpp not present > autoreconf: running: libtoolize --copy --force > libtoolize: putting auxiliary files in.'. > libtoolize: copying file./ltmain.sh' > libtoolize: Consider addingAC_CONFIG_MACRO_DIR([m4])' toconfigure.inand
> libtoolize: rerunning libtoolize, to keep the correct libtool
macros
> in-tree. > libtoolize: Consider adding `-I m4' to ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS in
Makefile.am.
> autoreconf: running: /usr/bin/autoconf --force > autoreconf: configure.in: not using Autoheader > autoreconf: configure.in: not using Automake > autoreconf: Leaving directory `portaudio' > libtoolize: putting auxiliary files in AC_CONFIG_AUX_DIR,
`m4/config'.
> libtoolize: copying file
m4/config/ltmain.sh' > libtoolize: putting macros in AC_CONFIG_MACRO_DIR,m4/generated'. > libtoolize: copying filem4/generated/libtool.m4' > libtoolize: copying filem4/generated/ltoptions.m4' > libtoolize: copying filem4/generated/ltsugar.m4' > libtoolize: copying filem4/generated/ltversion.m4' > libtoolize: copying filem4/generated/lt~obsolete.m4' > autoreconf: configure.ac: not using Autoheader > autoreconf: running: automake --add-missing --copy --force-missing > autoreconf: Leaving directory.' > root@BitChime:~/pure-data# ./configure > checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c > checking whether build environment is sane... yes > checking for a thread-safe mkdir -p... /bin/mkdir -p > checking for gawk... no > checking for mawk... mawk > checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes > checking build system type... armv6l-unknown-linux-gnueabihf > checking host system type... armv6l-unknown-linux-gnueabihf > configure: iPhone SDK only available for arm-apple-darwin hosts,skipping
> tests > configure: Android SDK only available for arm-linux hosts,
skipping tests
> checking for style of include used by make... GNU > checking for gcc... gcc > checking whether the C compiler works... yes > checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out > checking for suffix of executables... > checking whether we are cross compiling... no > checking for suffix of object files... o > checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes > checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes > checking for gcc option to accept ISO C89... none needed > checking dependency style of gcc... gcc3 > checking how to print strings... printf > checking for a sed that does not truncate output... /bin/sed > checking for grep that handles long lines and -e... /bin/grep > checking for egrep... /bin/grep -E > checking for fgrep... /bin/grep -F > checking for ld used by gcc... /usr/bin/ld > checking if the linker (/usr/bin/ld) is GNU ld... yes > checking for BSD- or MS-compatible name lister (nm)...
/usr/bin/nm -B
> checking the name lister (/usr/bin/nm -B) interface... BSD nm > checking whether ln -s works... yes > checking the maximum length of command line arguments... 1572864 > checking whether the shell understands some XSI constructs... yes > checking whether the shell understands "+="... yes > checking how to convert armv6l-unknown-linux-gnueabihf file names
to
> armv6l-unknown-linux-gnueabihf format... func_convert_file_noop > checking how to convert armv6l-unknown-linux-gnueabihf file names
to
> toolchain format... func_convert_file_noop > checking for /usr/bin/ld option to reload object files... -r > checking for objdump... objdump > checking how to recognize dependent libraries... pass_all > checking for dlltool... dlltool > checking how to associate runtime and link libraries... printf
%s\n
> checking for ar... ar > checking for archiver @FILE support... @ > checking for strip... strip > checking for ranlib... ranlib > checking command to parse /usr/bin/nm -B output from gcc
object... ok
> checking for sysroot... no > checking for mt... mt > checking if mt is a manifest tool... no > checking how to run the C preprocessor... gcc -E > checking for ANSI C header files... yes > checking for sys/types.h... yes > checking for sys/stat.h... yes > checking for stdlib.h... yes > checking for string.h... yes > checking for memory.h... yes > checking for strings.h... yes > checking for inttypes.h... yes > checking for stdint.h... yes > checking for unistd.h... yes > checking for dlfcn.h... yes > checking for objdir... .libs > checking if gcc supports -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions... no > checking for gcc option to produce PIC... -fPIC -DPIC > checking if gcc PIC flag -fPIC -DPIC works... yes > checking if gcc static flag -static works... yes > checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... yes > checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... (cached) yes > checking whether the gcc linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared libraries... > yes > checking whether -lc should be explicitly linked in... no > checking dynamic linker characteristics... GNU/Linux ld.so > checking how to hardcode library paths into programs... immediate > checking for shl_load... no > checking for shl_load in -ldld... no > checking for dlopen... no > checking for dlopen in -ldl... yes > checking whether a program can dlopen itself... yes > checking whether a statically linked program can dlopen itself...
no
> checking whether stripping libraries is possible... yes > checking if libtool supports shared libraries... yes > checking whether to build shared libraries... yes > checking whether to build static libraries... yes > checking for gcc... (cached) gcc > checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... (cached) yes > checking whether gcc accepts -g... (cached) yes > checking for gcc option to accept ISO C89... (cached) none needed > checking dependency style of gcc... (cached) gcc3 > checking for g++... no > checking for c++... no > checking for gpp... no > checking for aCC... no > checking for CC... no > checking for cxx... no > checking for cc++... no > checking for cl.exe... no > checking for FCC... no > checking for KCC... no > checking for RCC... no > checking for xlC_r... no > checking for xlC... no > checking whether we are using the GNU C++ compiler... no > checking whether g++ accepts -g... no > checking dependency style of g++... none > checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... (cached) yes > checking whether ln -s works... yes > checking for dlopen in -ldl... (cached) yes > checking for cos in -lm... yes > checking for pthread_create in -lpthread... yes > checking for ANSI C header files... (cached) yes > checking sys/soundcard.h usability... yes > checking sys/soundcard.h presence... yes > checking for sys/soundcard.h... yes > checking CoreAudio/CoreAudio.h usability... no > checking CoreAudio/CoreAudio.h presence... no > checking for CoreAudio/CoreAudio.h... no > checking for snd_pcm_info in -lasound... yes > checking for size_t... yes > checking for working alloca.h... yes > checking for alloca... yes > checking fcntl.h usability... yes > checking fcntl.h presence... yes > checking for fcntl.h... yes > checking limits.h usability... yes > checking limits.h presence... yes > checking for limits.h... yes > checking malloc.h usability... yes > checking malloc.h presence... yes > checking for malloc.h... yes > checking netdb.h usability... yes > checking netdb.h presence... yes > checking for netdb.h... yes > checking netinet/in.h usability... yes > checking netinet/in.h presence... yes > checking for netinet/in.h... yes > checking stddef.h usability... yes > checking stddef.h presence... yes > checking for stddef.h... yes > checking for stdlib.h... (cached) yes > checking for string.h... (cached) yes > checking sys/ioctl.h usability... yes > checking sys/ioctl.h presence... yes > checking for sys/ioctl.h... yes > checking sys/param.h usability... yes > checking sys/param.h presence... yes > checking for sys/param.h... yes > checking sys/socket.h usability... yes > checking sys/socket.h presence... yes > checking for sys/socket.h... yes > checking for sys/soundcard.h... (cached) yes > checking sys/time.h usability... yes > checking sys/time.h presence... yes > checking for sys/time.h... yes > checking sys/timeb.h usability... yes > checking sys/timeb.h presence... yes > checking for sys/timeb.h... yes > checking for unistd.h... (cached) yes > checking for int16_t... yes > checking for int32_t... yes > checking for off_t... yes > checking for pid_t... yes > checking for size_t... (cached) yes > checking for error_at_line... yes > checking vfork.h usability... no > checking vfork.h presence... no > checking for vfork.h... no > checking for fork... yes > checking for vfork... yes > checking for working fork... yes > checking for working vfork... (cached) yes > checking for stdlib.h... (cached) yes > checking for GNU libc compatible malloc... yes > checking for stdlib.h... (cached) yes > checking for GNU libc compatible realloc... yes > checking return type of signal handlers... void > checking for dup2... yes > checking for floor... no > checking for getcwd... yes > checking for gethostbyname... yes > checking for gettimeofday... yes > checking for memmove... yes > checking for memset... yes > checking for pow... no > checking for regcomp... yes > checking for select... yes > checking for socket... yes > checking for sqrt... no > checking for strchr... yes > checking for strerror... yes > checking for strrchr... yes > checking for strstr... yes > checking for strtol... yes > checking for msgfmt... yes > configure: creating ./config.status > config.status: creating Makefile > config.status: creating asio/Makefile > config.status: creating man/Makefile > config.status: creating portmidi/Makefile > config.status: creating tcl/Makefile > config.status: creating po/Makefile > config.status: creating src/Makefile > config.status: creating extra/Makefile > config.status: creating extra/bonk~/GNUmakefile > config.status: creating extra/choice/GNUmakefile > config.status: creating extra/expr~/GNUmakefile > config.status: creating extra/fiddle~/GNUmakefile > config.status: creating extra/loop~/GNUmakefile > config.status: creating extra/lrshift~/GNUmakefile > config.status: creating extra/pd~/GNUmakefile > config.status: creating extra/pique/GNUmakefile > config.status: creating extra/sigmund~/GNUmakefile > config.status: creating extra/stdout/GNUmakefile > config.status: creating pd.pc > config.status: executing depfiles commands > config.status: executing libtool commands > === configuring in portaudio (/root/pure-data/portaudio) > configure: running /bin/bash ./configure --disable-option-checking > '--prefix=/usr/local' --cache-file=/dev/null --srcdir=. > checking for a thread-safe mkdir -p... /bin/mkdir -p > checking build system type... armv6l-unknown-linux-gnueabihf > checking host system type... armv6l-unknown-linux-gnueabihf > checking target system type... armv6l-unknown-linux-gnueabihf > checking for gcc... gcc > checking whether the C compiler works... yes > checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out > checking for suffix of executables... > checking whether we are cross compiling... no > checking for suffix of object files... o > checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes > checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes > checking for gcc option to accept ISO C89... none needed > checking how to print strings... printf > checking for a sed that does not truncate output... /bin/sed > checking for grep that handles long lines and -e... /bin/grep > checking for egrep... /bin/grep -E > checking for fgrep... /bin/grep -F > checking for ld used by gcc... /usr/bin/ld > checking if the linker (/usr/bin/ld) is GNU ld... yes > checking for BSD- or MS-compatible name lister (nm)...
/usr/bin/nm -B
> checking the name lister (/usr/bin/nm -B) interface... BSD nm > checking whether ln -s works... yes > checking the maximum length of command line arguments... 1572864 > checking whether the shell understands some XSI constructs... yes > checking whether the shell understands "+="... yes > checking how to convert armv6l-unknown-linux-gnueabihf file names
to
> armv6l-unknown-linux-gnueabihf format... func_convert_file_noop > checking how to convert armv6l-unknown-linux-gnueabihf file names
to
> toolchain format... func_convert_file_noop > checking for /usr/bin/ld option to reload object files... -r > checking for objdump... objdump > checking how to recognize dependent libraries... pass_all > checking for dlltool... dlltool > checking how to associate runtime and link libraries... printf
%s\n
> checking for ar... ar > checking for archiver @FILE support... @ > checking for strip... strip > checking for ranlib... ranlib > checking for gawk... no > checking for mawk... mawk > checking command to parse /usr/bin/nm -B output from gcc
object... ok
> checking for sysroot... no > checking for mt... mt > checking if mt is a manifest tool... no > checking how to run the C preprocessor... gcc -E > checking for ANSI C header files... yes > checking for sys/types.h... yes > checking for sys/stat.h... yes > checking for stdlib.h... yes > checking for string.h... yes > checking for memory.h... yes > checking for strings.h... yes > checking for inttypes.h... yes > checking for stdint.h... yes > checking for unistd.h... yes > checking for dlfcn.h... yes > checking for objdir... .libs > checking if gcc supports -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions... no > checking for gcc option to produce PIC... -fPIC -DPIC > checking if gcc PIC flag -fPIC -DPIC works... yes > checking if gcc static flag -static works... yes > checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... yes > checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... (cached) yes > checking whether the gcc linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared libraries... > yes > checking whether -lc should be explicitly linked in... no > checking dynamic linker characteristics... GNU/Linux ld.so > checking how to hardcode library paths into programs... immediate > checking whether stripping libraries is possible... yes > checking if libtool supports shared libraries... yes > checking whether to build shared libraries... yes > checking whether to build static libraries... yes > checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c > checking whether ln -s works... yes > checking for ar... /usr/bin/ar > checking whether byte ordering is bigendian... no > checking for snd_pcm_open in -lasound... yes > checking for HPI_SubSysCreate in -lhpi... no > checking sys/soundcard.h usability... yes > checking sys/soundcard.h presence... yes > checking for sys/soundcard.h... yes > checking linux/soundcard.h usability... yes > checking linux/soundcard.h presence... yes > checking for linux/soundcard.h... yes > checking machine/soundcard.h usability... no > checking machine/soundcard.h presence... no > checking for machine/soundcard.h... no > checking for _oss_ioctl in -lossaudio... no > checking for pkg-config... /usr/bin/pkg-config > checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes > checking for JACK... no > checking size of short... 2 > checking size of int... 4 > checking size of long... 4 > checking for clock_gettime in -lrt... yes > checking for clock_gettime... yes > checking for nanosleep... yes > checking for pthread_create in -lpthread... yes > configure: creating ./config.status > config.status: creating Makefile > config.status: executing libtool commands > > Configuration summary: > > Target ...................... armv6l-unknown-linux-gnueabihf > C++ bindings ................ no > Debug output ................ no > > ALSA ........................ yes > ASIHPI ...................... no > > OSS ......................... yes > JACK ........................ no > > root@BitChime:~/pure-data# make > make -C po all > make[1]: Entering directory
/root/pure-data/po' > make[1]: Nothing to be done forall'. > make[1]: Leaving directory/root/pure-data/po' > make all-recursive > make[1]: Entering directory/root/pure-data' > Making all in portaudio > make[2]: Entering directory/root/pure-data/portaudio' > if test -n "" ; then for dir in ""; do make -C $dir all; done ; fi > make[2]: Leaving directory/root/pure-data/portaudio' > Making all in src > make[2]: Entering directory `/root/pure-data/src' > /bin/bash ../libtool --tag=CC --mode=link gcc -DPD > -DINSTALL_PREFIX="/usr/local" -DUSEAPI_ALSA -DUSEAPI_OSS > -DUSEAPI_PORTAUDIO -I../portaudio/include -O6 -funroll-loops > -fomit-frame-pointer -export-dynac -lm -o pd pd-g_canvas.opd-g_graph.o
> pd-g_text.o pd-g_rtext.o pd-g_array.o pd-g_template.o pd-g_io.o > pd-g_scalar.o pd-g_traversal.o pd-g_guiconnect.o pd-g_readwrite.o > pd-g_editor.o pd-g_all_guis.o pd-g_bang.o -g_hdial.o
pd-g_hslider.o
> pd-g_mycanvas.o pd-g_numbox.o pd-g_toggle.o pd-g_vdial.o
pd-g_vslider.o
> pd-g_vumeter.o pd-m_pd.o pd-m_class.o pd-m_obj.o pd-m_atom.o pd-m_memory.o > pd-m_binbuf.o pd-m_conf.o pd-m_glob.o pm_sched.o pd-s_main.o
pd-s_inter.o
> pd-s_file.o pd-s_print.o pd-s_loader.o pd-s_path.o pd-s_entry.o > pd-s_audio.o pd-s_midi.o pd-s_utf8.o pd-d_ugen.o pd-d_ctl.o > pd-d_arithmetic.o pd-d_osc.o pd-d_filter.o pd-d_dac.od-d_misc.o pd-d_math.o > pd-d_fft.o pd-d_array.o pd-d_global.o pd-d_delay.o pd-d_resample.o > pd-x_arithmetic.o pd-x_connective.o pd-x_interface.o pd-x_midi.o > pd-x_misc.o pd-x_time.o pd-x_acoustics.o pd-x_net.o pd-x_ist.o
pd-x_gui.o
> pd-x_list.o pd-d_soundfile.o pd-s_audio_alsa.o pd-s_audio_alsamm.o > pd-s_midi_alsa.o pd-d_fft_mayer.o pd-d_fftroutine.o
pd-s_audio_oss.o
> pd-s_midi_oss.o pd-s_audio_pa.o pd-s_audio_paring.o -sound > ../portaudio/lib/libportaudio.la -lpthread -ldl > libtool: link: gcc -DPD -DINSTALL_PREFIX="/usr/local"
-DUSEAPI_ALSA
> -DUSEAPI_OSS -DUSEAPI_PORTAUDIO -I../portaudio/include -O6
-funroll-loops
> -fomit-frame-pointer -o .libs/pd pd-g_canvas.o pd-g_graph.o
pd-g_texo
> pd-g_rtext.o pd-g_array.o pd-g_template.o pd-g_io.o pd-g_scalar.o > pd-g_traversal.o pd-g_guiconnect.o pd-g_readwrite.o pd-g_editor.o > pd-g_all_guis.o pd-g_bang.o pd-g_hdial.o pd-g_hslider.o
pd-g_mycanvas.o
> pd-g_nbox.o pd-g_toggle.o pd-g_vdial.o pd-g_vslider.o
pd-g_vumeter.o
> pd-m_pd.o pd-m_class.o pd-m_obj.o pd-m_atom.o pd-m_memory.o
pd-m_binbuf.o
> pd-m_conf.o pd-m_glob.o pd-m_sched.o pd-s_main.o pd-s_inter.o
pd-s_file.o
> ps_print.o pd-s_loader.o pd-s_path.o pd-s_entry.o pd-s_audio.o pd-s_midi.o > pd-s_utf8.o pd-d_ugen.o pd-d_ctl.o pd-d_arithmetic.o pd-d_osc.o > pd-d_filter.o pd-d_dac.o pd-d_misc.o pd-d_math.o pd-d_fft.o
pd-d_array.o
> pd_global.o pd-d_delay.o pd-d_resample.o pd-x_arithmetic.o > pd-x_connective.o pd-x_interface.o pd-x_midi.o pd-x_misc.o
pd-x_time.o
> pd-x_acoustics.o pd-x_net.o pd-x_qlist.o pd-x_gui.o pd-x_list.o > pd-d_soundfile.o pd_audio_alsa.o pd-s_audio_alsamm.o
pd-s_midi_alsa.o
> pd-d_fft_mayer.o pd-d_fftroutine.o pd-s_audio_oss.o
pd-s_midi_oss.o
> pd-s_audio_pa.o pd-s_audio_paring.o -Wl,--export-dynamic -lm
-lasound
> ../portaudio/lib/.libsibportaudio.so -lpthread -ldl > pd-g_canvas.o: In function `pd_checkglist': > g_canvas.c:(.text+0x511c): undefined reference to
`array_define_class'
> pd-g_text.o: In function
text_save': > g_text.c:(.text+0x3074): undefined reference tocanvas_istable' > pd-m_conf.o: In functionconf_init': > m_conf.c:(.text+0x60): undefined reference tox_array_setup' > collect2: ld returned 1 exit status > make[2]: *** [pd] Error 1 > make[2]: Leaving directory/root/pure-data/src' > make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 > make[1]: Leaving directory/root/pure-data' > make: *** [all] Error 2 > root@BitChime:~/pure-data# ^C > root@BitChime:~/pure-data# make > > This is about the fifth time I've tried to build Pd from sourceon the Pi
> and is farther than I've got before - but not quite far enough. > > > Any thoughts anyone? > > Regards, > > Julian
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