On Jan 19, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Luke Iannini wrote:
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner
hans@eds.org wrote:On Jan 19, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Damian Stewart wrote:
Daniel Almeida wrote:
I dare say PD needs to ditch tcl/tk! SDL could be a good idea.
Daniel
yeah that's what i said about two years ago...
the problem is, at the moment tcl/tk is embedded quite deeply into
Pd itself. this is a focus of the current pd-dev effort: trying to clear this up. tcl/tk in itself isn't _necessarily_ slow, it's just that the way Pd is using it is not at all optimised (for example, as Hans-Christoph
and i discovered once, when you click-drag to move an element in a
graphical table, not just the element you moved but _the entire table_ is redrawn, each time).-- damian stewart | skype: damiansnz | damian@frey.co.nz frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz
It's slight worse, even. The entire table is deleted and re-created on each change, not even just redrawn. That said, I am guessing
the C+
- code on the GPU (Live) will always be quite a bit faster than Tcl/
Tk on the CPU. One of the ways that Live is able to make things fast is by ignoring the native widgets on each platform and coding their own. Tcl/Tk is the best GUI toolkit I've seen for making native-feeling apps while writing cross-platform code.
If Live is really just blasting bitmaps to the screen, that is something that Tcl/Tk can easily do. But I am not sure that it would be the fastest way to implement GUI widgets.
If someone wants to help this situation, I think the best thing to do would be to create some GUI objects using TkZinc. Then we'll have
Tcl/ Tk on the GPU and that should make things quite a bit faster.Wow, hadn't heard of TkZinc. That looks incredible. Another cloud for my Pd heaven : ). As I've been writing, I'd really love to create GUIs entirely with Data Structures - I'm not sure how much of a performance hit that causes but the opportunities for customization are much richer when it's turtles all the way down (where turtles = Pd). Is TkZinc feasible for replacing the whole GUI? It seems to support all the platforms Pd does.
That is something to find out. It sounds promising. At least it
would be possible to write a TkZinc canvas which works like data
structures, but uses OpenGL.
.hc
Best Luke
.hc
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