Hi Jonathan, I like it too, and the pedagogical concern is what gets me the most. I find new users to be reluctant to the clunkiness.
Had never heard of the Nova system, is it available somewhere? Seems it's not built on the core of Pd anyway, right?
thanks
2014-04-03 19:03 GMT-03:00 Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com:
On 04/03/2014 03:13 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
thanks for explaining it all
imagine trying to design something like that which is also backwards compatible with the crude namespacing tools that already exist in Pd. It's not possible
ok, here's where I'm a bit confuse. You're not saying it'd be impossible to make messages inherit the $0 value, are you?
I don't know how difficult such a change is. I assume something in Pd's parser would need to be changed. I can't remember if the code responsible for parsing a msg box message even knows where the message got sent from-- seems ike it doesn't since I can't "find last error" on msg-box parsing errors (like an out-of-range dollarsign variable).
What I'm saying is that even with a canvas $0 inside message boxes Pd's scope system is still way too clunky. You still don't get straightforward subpatch-locality, nor nested-abstraction locality. I think Tim Blechmann's Nova system did both, and Ivica's [preset_hub] and [preset_node] get the latter (though I don't think it does global scope). Both work perfectly fine with no $0 at all. The pedagogical benefit is enormous-- new users can get the scope they want without having to learn or think about what a dollarsign variable is, or how string concatenation works. In the case of [preset_hub], just creating the object sets the scope boundary almost certainly to what the user wants it to be. I like that.
-Jonathan