// //We all did, but you evolved as a programmer. 99.9% of the population //won't. So either we keep PD only as a research or hobbyist tool, or we //try to put some sugar on it to please all those "users" out there. At //some point they'll hopefully agree why PD (or jMax) are better tools for //reasons they don't want to understand now. We could even make commercial //products based on PD, if its license allows it, because that's the only //language most users really understand now. It's being done with many //other free softwares, so why not PD? The MSP plugin for Max is PD, so //that should be possible to sell a "better" PD. I don't care if they copy //and use the commercial version (they would for sure), because the goal //would be to made them switch to the free version. It would bring PD to a //larger audience while keeping it free. The market is certainly not too //small. It would give university students access to softwares they //usually can't afford or are reluctent to even try. The advent of the OSX //platform is giving us an opportunity we should consider. Maybe I simply //don't understand what the market economy is all about...
clearly not, your argument seems to be: "by strategising commercial iterations of the PD project, the free PD project somehow becomes better distributed..." [?]
i think this is otherwise known as the crack market.
really the 'market' you speak of is not best understood as a diametric relationship between PD and MaxMSP, as they *can* and do happily cooexist in their differences. MaxMSP supports the kind of buyers security that some institutions believe they need, this is contiguous with controlled development; capping the developmental headroom of the user to that of what they develop for the MAX project, thereby giving it's shelflife more longevity. PD is where all the real risks are taken, as the codebase is open to its *users*. i forsee a time when Max MSP is taking cues from the economically independent PD project, which has nothing to lose, everything to gain.
i could agree that PD is used more by extreme enthusiasts [aka developers] than the universal 'user' we are speaking about here [whoevever that is - a whole lot of ppl on this list make records], but really [and to follow yves on this one] part of the appeal of PD is that it is not candy coated: WYS *is* WYG etc..
sure tcl/tk pisses me off at times, and i would like to see a rewrite of this simply because i know that my sliders are eating up clockcycles.
it seems however that some of this debate here mistakes the tool for the purpose; useability is not one and the same with purple lipstick [estimated appeal]. useability is one and the same with useability, and with some learning [shock horror] PD is *very* useable. the progress bar install that you appear to be imagining is milk and cookies for a person that would [if addicted to such 'comforts'] would not have the curiosity to grokk PD or MaxMSP anyway. but then again, i may simply just be a person equally addicted to learning about what's going on in my computer, how and why.. so much so i believe it actually good for people [and computers] ;)
beware of the sugar [i say], 'cause soon your coffee might start tasting like something else.
julian
// //-- //Marc // // //_______________________________________________ //PD-list mailing list //PD-list@iem.kug.ac.at //http://iem.kug.ac.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list // //