On May 3, 2008, at 8:06 PM, David Golightly wrote:
Hey folks,
My interest (at first) would not be to add anything or enhance the
appearance of things; I'm more interested in helping to improve the
PD workflow by making PD easier to use.
Hear, hear!
Something like an optional "snap to grid" feature for instance
would be nice for auto-aligning and cleaning up patches.
Sounds good.
While I understand the argument that bending patch cords increases
the visual noise of a patch, it's already noisy when patch cords
cross at acute angles or when the data flows from bottom to top
(which is necessary to do many things in PD). Perhaps creating
some logic to bend patch cords at right angles only, tracing the
aforementioned grid? I won't have time to work on this at first
though, so it's worth thinking about for a while.
The linearity of the patch cords makes it easier to trace the path of
them. You don't have to follow the cords with your eye, but instead
it is just readily apparent.
I agree that the startup paths dialog needs a lot of help - when
you run PD-extended it's already full of paths for externals,
leaving you nowhere to put your own paths!
I think there should be a subwindow with a line for each path entry,
then + and - buttons for editing the entries. Then if there are lots
of entries, that subwindow would scroll. There is a Tk 'listbox"
which would work for this (seen in action in the Help Browser).
I get really annoyed that there's no way to bulk-edit GUI elements
(vsliders, etc.). For instance, if you draw a whole bunch of
vsliders, then realize that you forgot to set "no init" to "init",
you have to manually open each one and click the button. To make
matters worse, they tile automatically, so after a number of the
vslider properties dialogs have been open, the buttons to close the
dialog are below the bottom of the screen!
That would be quite useful.
I would also really like it if you could do all of your basic
patching in PD without using the mouse. Perhaps some key bindings
like (in edit mode):<tab> to select an object, cycling through the objects/messages in
the current patch (<shift-tab> to reverse) <enter> to type in the selected object/message <shift-arrow> to select one of the selected object's outlets <space> to create a new patch cord <tab> to cycle through the rest of the objects on the page (<shift- tab> to reverse, or <esc> to cancel the operation)also, when typing in an object or message, pressing <esc> should
"blur" (deselect) the object/message, restoring its previous value
("cancel"); <tab> should select the next object for editing, and
<shift-enter> should "blur" the object, setting its value to what
you just typed.Does PD currently have any key bindings guidelines? I'd be
interested in finding out what's already taken (though none of the
combinations I mentioned above appear to be currently in use).
There are quite a few that are taken. I think the key is to make
sure that none of the standards for each platform are overridden, and
that we use the standards on each platform.
What do you all think about this? I'm starting to dive into the
tk, it looks like however almost all of the GUI is in pd/src/ u_main.tk, which at around 4300 lines is substantially larger than
any of the C src files. It would be nice if we could organize this
a little better by breaking up the large source file into smaller,
more module files, though I haven't yet investigated how much work
that would be, and anyways we can live with the current
organization if it's too much trouble.
u_main.tk is a mess. It needs to be cleaned up in a big way. I
think to start with, it is possible to tack more stuff on, then
reorganize it. I am planning on refactoring u_main.tk after I get
the 0.40.3-extended release out. I talked with Miller about it, it
sounds like he is willing to accept such changes.
So, I'm interested in starting with fixing some of the messy
dialogs, then working toward getting a mouse-less edit mode.
Sounds great, keep us posted on what you are working on, and post
questions when you have them!
.hc
-David
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com
wrote: When I see stuff like fancy icons etc, I'm always a bit afraid that
those of us on low res machines (1024x768 in my case) would get
really screwed in the end as one cool, large, fancy, chromey module
would take up half the screen! IMO tiny pd boxes are always better
as they save space and increase whitespace, increasing
readability ... and a well named abstraction is more powerful then
loads of graphics. Those signal inlet, outlet signs in SynthMaker
are annoyingly large too, whereas in PD a thicker line is
completely obvious enough.I guess it all comes down to who PD is aimed at ... people who need
a fancy interface or people who want to get some work done. (ohhh I
went there!)What I would like would be a unified set of common interface
elements as already suggested. A better [knob] would be nice for
instance2 bits
On Sat, 2008-05-03 at 12:21 +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Langsam Wieder hat gesagt: // Langsam Wieder wrote:
if you want to collect some ideas how a real usable and pretty interface for a modular environment could look like, have a look at http://synthmaker.co.uk/about.html it's got bendable links... you never have to leave edit mode... and have a look at how ALL interface elements as bitmap & vector knobs, sliders or wavedraw display consist of modules themselve. the environment is off course not as powerful as pd, but the
interface
is just a joy to work with.
I've never worked with that, however I'm always irritated, when patching environments have their cord connections flow left to right instead of top to bottom. IMO that's such a waste of space in languages, that are written horizontally. If you look at the "Midi to Poly" object here: http://synthmaker.co.uk/images/components%20L.png you'll see that most of it is just an empty grey rectangle, whose width is just there to make room for the object name. If the in/outlets were top and bottom as in Pd and Max, the box could be
much smaller without losing any information.Of course if objects are just icons instead of works, left-to-right can work, but as Matju once said: "a word says more than a thousand pictures" - icons are very limited. No wonder, SynthMaker also includes a (quite nice) text editor for dsp code.
Ciao
Dan Wilcox robotcowboy.com
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