Hallo, Krzysztof Czaja hat gesagt: // Krzysztof Czaja wrote:
hmm... I tried to explain this in another thread. Let me try again:
- It is probably fair to say that the Pd rules of message typing
are better than the old rules still preserved in Max. Nevertheless, Pd is just as unsuitable for list processing as Max.
I'm concerned with actually using Pd for list-processing, regardless if it is unsuitable or not. Maybe that's the point where we disagree about how zl/prepend/list should behave.
- Regardless of the rules, [zl]'s and [prepend]'s way of
conversion, i.e. discarding of the 'list' selector of symbolic list messages is just as bad, good, or irrelevant as the [list]'s way of conversion, i.e. prepending of the 'list' selector to non-list messages -- the same bit of information is lost.
If one uses Pd to work on lists, then it is very helpful to only deal with list-messages. For example, sending "list a b c d" through just one [zl join] in a patch will make a message substitution like [$2 $3( substitute the "wrong" list positions ("c d"), because zl removed the list-prefix and effectively the first element as well, which now is the selector.
This is confusing many users. I'm sure they wouldn't be as confused if the would have used [list] so that [$2 $3( can give back "b c" as expected.
Where I use [zl], I always put a [list] after it to get back the full list again. It just lets me sleep better to always have the list-selector until I want to call an object's method.
- In nearly all cases when [prepend] is really needed, it is used
for assigning a selector to a message. Inserting [prepend add] before a [textfile] is more natural, than inserting [list prepend add] -> [list trim].
That's true. I proposed to use an abstraction called [prepent] build from [list prepend $1]-[list trim] in these cases, but of course [prepend] is made for this. My argument is just, that because of its selector-mangling it is not useful for list-processing at all. Hm, but then we're back at the start.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__