On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org wrote:
On Jan 19, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Damian Stewart wrote:
Daniel Almeida wrote:
I dare say PD needs to ditch tcl/tk! SDL could be a good idea.
Daniel
yeah that's what i said about two years ago...
the problem is, at the moment tcl/tk is embedded quite deeply into Pd itself. this is a focus of the current pd-dev effort: trying to clear this up. tcl/tk in itself isn't _necessarily_ slow, it's just that the way Pd is using it is not at all optimised (for example, as Hans-Christoph and i discovered once, when you click-drag to move an element in a graphical table, not just the element you moved but _the entire table_ is redrawn, each time).
-- damian stewart | skype: damiansnz | damian@frey.co.nz frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz
It's slight worse, even. The entire table is deleted and re-created on each change, not even just redrawn. That said, I am guessing the C+
- code on the GPU (Live) will always be quite a bit faster than Tcl/Tk
on the CPU. One of the ways that Live is able to make things fast is by ignoring the native widgets on each platform and coding their own. Tcl/Tk is the best GUI toolkit I've seen for making native-feeling apps while writing cross-platform code.
If Live is really just blasting bitmaps to the screen, that is something that Tcl/Tk can easily do. But I am not sure that it would be the fastest way to implement GUI widgets.
If someone wants to help this situation, I think the best thing to do would be to create some GUI objects using TkZinc. Then we'll have Tcl/ Tk on the GPU and that should make things quite a bit faster.
Wow, hadn't heard of TkZinc. That looks incredible. Another cloud for my Pd heaven : ). As I've been writing, I'd really love to create GUIs entirely with Data Structures - I'm not sure how much of a performance hit that causes but the opportunities for customization are much richer when it's turtles all the way down (where turtles = Pd). Is TkZinc feasible for replacing the whole GUI? It seems to support all the platforms Pd does.
Best Luke
.hc
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