..on Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 08:07:22PM +0200, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Installation manuals are the only thing that I can see that makes
sense with Pd.
really? what about for exmplaining externals that the user hasnt installed yet (etc) and what about graphic design, i dont think its such a good idea to think design isnt important when assiting readability etc...i think there are a lot of cases for a manual :)
adam
So this manual is a nice start. But it would be nice
to have that documentation integrated into puredata.org rather than
somewhere else.
.hc
On Apr 21, 2006, at 12:49 PM, adam wrote:
isnt it possible to do both (a book man and a patch man)? they can
easily fit together and trade content...if anyone is interested in a traditional manual i have started a
floss manual repository for collaborative dev of manuals. its not
'public' yet as i want to get some more manuals in there but its fully functional...the url is: http://www.flossmanuals.net
an example of a 'finished' manual is the MuSE manual : http://www.flossmanuals.net/muse
and the PD manual is coming along, i would like to get it to the
level of the MuSE manual soon, but i need to wrap it up in a nice
skin and put a good index to it...you can for the meantime see the entire thing in one page: http://www.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/All?skin=basicthe repository allows for output in many formats: PDF (autoindexed,
linked etc), tar, zip, chaptered html, printable html, and single
page html.there is also a shared image repository that can be contributed to
and images can be edited,resized, etc through the default editorif anyone is interested i would like to suggest a collab manual
development utilising this system alongside the (very nice) idea of
a manual made of PD patchesadam
..on Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 12:40:28PM -0500, David Powers wrote:
I STRONGLY disagree with having a manual that is ONLY pd patches
-- unless those patches are translated into PDF or HTML also.Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I always print important reference
material out onto notebooks, and I often do programming with paper and pencil.
So, I'd first of all worry that a pd patch might require interactivity to
fully understand what is happening. So, at a minimum, all patches should
include enough text to understand the information, even if the patch isn't
running.Also, sometimes I reference things on work computers where I don't
have pd. And, on Windows, many things still crash pd. There is nothing more
annoying than being in the middle of studying things and suddenly having
everything shut down and having to load it all up again.So, I feel that a "manual" worthy of the name should allow one to
access the information, regardless of having pd running or not. Perhaps the
patches could just be converted to PDF, and somehow a page index created.I LIKE "book learning", I often learn best that way--I have made
many good pd patches and python programs riding the bus or train many times.
In fact, I find that when I plan with pen and paper, my pd patches come out
much better, and it's very helpful to have traditional reference
materials when working in this way. Does everyone really have a problem with
making a traditional manual for pd?~David
On 4/19/06, Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org wrote:
Is Adam Hyde on the list? I think its great for anyone to join, seriously, the more the merrier. Already, the intro that I have
been assembling is drawing on the work of 10 or so people.We discussed the idea of a manual a fair amount in the PDDP meetings. I think most/all of us agreed that we want to try to make a Pd manual that is completely made up of Pd patches. The point is to highlight learning thru example for every single step. Having a separate manual seems to highlight the book learning style more. Yes, this will mean a lot of patches. I already have 60-ish for the intro.
But I also just made a pager object which allows you to easily navigate the pages like a manual. Its included in the most recent test releases:
http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html
Go to Help->Browser... then manuals/intro and load 0-pager.pd I tested it on Windows and Mac OS X.
.hc
On Apr 19, 2006, at 5:07 PM, derek holzer wrote:
Hey HC and the gang,
Adam Hyde has been working on a PDF/HTML manual for getting PD up and running. I've talked with him a bit about how beneficial such a thing is versus a set of patches like the ones which have been contributed here. But you might want to have a look at it:
http://www.flossmanuals.net/edit
I may be meeting with him soon about where it could go, and I'm sure he's open for other suggestions as well.
Mark Polishook wrote:
Two comments: 1. the patches are very good at identifying core concepts and explaining them. 2. But the hard thing about tutorial writing is it's difficult to show how those small concepts relate to larger artistic concerns.
I agree on both fronts. The main issue with PD is that people use it for so many different things that demonstrating "artistic concerns" would be pretty limited to what the author happens to be doing with PD. All the same, I do find that there is a serious lack of "demo" patches, or something like a "user library" that noobs could have a look at for inspiration. Simple and not so simple but usable tools, along the same lines as the User Library in Reaktor, or maybe even the Pluggo patches from Cycling74 (except you can't open those up, can you???). I tried to make something like that with ParticleChamber, and I know that other stuff has come up on the list when people ask about synth collections and the like. Might be good to try to collect these kinds of abstractions together into a library of sorts (a la RRRAD).
best, derek
-- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ---Oblique Strategy # 76: "Give the game away"
As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin
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