Maybe its good, maybe its not, what's happening here now. My intention was not to give a bang for psychological discussions like that. I think, I should try to lower the heat of emotions now. When I asked for 'first aid' via this discussion board, I didn't even think about the possibility, someone would send me a whole patch for my (it was only a small part of the whole) project. Sure, it helped a lot, but just as I said... it was not the whole project. The main thing were the 60 video-clips we filmed for that, together with the picture-processin- stuff, sound design with NI Reaktor and so on. I should have said earlier, that the PD-patch is not the whole project. Maybe then my situation would have been clearer to other people. I've worked (only in PD) for 17 hours for the project... just because of Brandons and every others help relating to PD. Some things were new to me (e.g. Framestein), that gave me the reason to spend time with that for understanding it. And it made project much more better than it would have been without external informations. I saw the whole thing as a learning process. Its not, that I got the patch and showed it to my teacher; I had to understand it and connect it to the rest of the mains patch elements, together with all the material the project is based upon in order to work together. Yes, and I really learned a lot by doing that. Once I hated PD, now, after working with it in a very intensive way, I think I continue working with it. I was really happy when I saw, that the community-members here are helping each other; even if some beginner like me asks for help. In some game-developer-communities the situation is a bit different. It seems as if the professionals only help other professionals. So please don't think about changing you minds. This community should be a place for helping each other.
Something else... my tutor knows about the help of you all and apprechiates it a lot.
Thanks everyone!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bradon Webb" amodiuslonodium@yahoo.com To: pd-list@iem.at Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [PD] A newbie needs first aid!
--- Pall Thayer palli@pallit.lhi.is wrote:
Hallo, Rory Walsh hat gesagt: // Rory Walsh wrote:
If I was a teacher, I would love my students to
go out,
find experts, speak to them and learn from them.
Not all knowledge is
buried at schools and colleges. So unless they
just rip off someone
else's work and pretend it's their own, this
should be fine, even
encouraged.
I hope that my work will not be just ripped off! not really for my sake, but for the one using the information. Although I did kind of set up a situation for that to easily happen. It did not seem like that much work. The whole thing pieced together in less than 20 min. If someone turns this in as a complete project for a grade, I feel sorry for them, because they have learned not much. There is no intention on my part to complete someones school project for them, but merely serve up some technical advice with examples of something they might be looking for with the hope that they may expand upon what I have given them. I myself am out of school, so my viewpoint on sharing is somewhat different in the proffessional collaborative sense now.
I am a teacher and encourage my students to go out and seek information themselves. Of course, if they manage to find someone who is willing to do ALL the work for them, that's pretty sad. People should understand that you're not really helping a student if you provide them with what they should do themselves. The right thing to do is simply point them in the right direction, tell them what externals they may need, where to find them and where they can find information that may help them to accomplish whatever they're doing.
point well taken, maybe I have gone too far. In the future maybe I should present my help to others in a different language format instead of speaking the same language that they are working in. a simmilar example might be... instead of providing a painter who wants to know about painting with a painting, give them a technical manual about oil or acrylic painting brushes and canvases.
...sorry this is kind of a sensitive issue with myself... I will go on...
I have had the experience with PD and the list that sometimes the help people provide is somewhat obscure and pretty miminal as far as from a new user stanpoint. I have to say that boxed packages are by far more friendly to students than PD speeking from a how-to-use-and-get-help perspective. There are tons of assumptions people make when they explain something to someone and especially when you use a written form of language. It is as if people think you have been coding and programming in C++ since you were 2. The best way for me to learn this application has been to actually see working examples and how things are connected. Now that I have been working with PD for a year, I feel I can begin to understand its abstract language and can relate that to the language of what someone is telling me I need to do. I remember when I first started I had tons of problems (still do) and I could not find answers that would be descriptive enough or point me in the direction of finding a soulution and sadly in the end abandoned alot of projects because of it.
I have had maybe some bad experiences with technology, where friends and colleagues would not show anyone anything technically speeking... The way I think they saw it was I could attain their knowledge and rival them in the market place, or produce art simmilar to what they were doing or, what they had learned was somehow intrinsic to themselves and their path and thus uniportant to everyone else. I have a feeling it was more the latter than the former. everything they did was a deep secret. I absolutely hated this standpoint. maybe now though I appreciate them by protecting me from not learning, by really learning (the cause of much pain in the front lobe by banging head against wall). It does depend on the situation, but I do think that giving someone the "magic button" for a solution is wrong. It depends on the reasoning. I do for example drive an automobile, and when it breaks I look for, the "majic button". This usually means a mechanic who will do the work for me. That way I do not have to spend the time learning about fuel pumps, and carberators, but I can spend more of my time making art. I do not claim to know about cars, but I have chosen to drive one. there seems like there is some knoledge for things that is on a must know basis, and other knowledge that is merely running the thing but could care less how it works basis. I realize the err in my thinking as I could have checked first. It is really all about intent I guess. I hope to have not undermined anyones educaional experience (which ironically has turned out quite educational for myself). I did not feel bad about helping this person in this way, but maybe now I do. I just got overwhelmed with the thought giving someone exactly what they needed and helping them instead of beating around the bush. This I guess because I figured the soulution in this case was more important than the process. In the future I will try to be more ethical with my help.
apologies, bradon
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