Pd-list February 2022

pd-list@lists.iem.at

26 participants
28 discussions

[Gem] bit depth of display
by Roman Haefeli 18 Feb '22

18 Feb '22

Hi I have a Gem patch for an installation that basically maps a 1x12px image created with [pix_set] to a fullscreen [rectangle]. When the pixel values are close enough to each other, the gradients between the pixels shows edges that look like low bit depth (and probably are due low bit depth). I am looking for a way to display the Gem window with a higher bit depth. My external monitor advertises itself as capable of 30-bit (which I assume means 10 bit per channel). Here my questions: * Is it correct that in OpenGL calculations are done with floats? * Are the gradients calculated with high (>8bit) precision? * Is precision lost during transport to display? * What can be done to feed a monitor/projector with higher bit depth? * What can be done on macOS with a HDMI projector attached? Here a screenshot of the Gem display: https://netpd.org/~roman/tmp/12px-gradients.png Roman

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How to monitor a "dd" disk copy progress in Pd
by Ingo 16 Feb '22

16 Feb '22

Hi, I'm trying to monitor the progress of a "dd" disk copy operaton in Pd. I'm on Debaian. When I send this to a console I can see the progress in the console (after the command): dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc status=progress However, if I try to do the same thing within PD and send the same command to [shell] I get no output from s{shell]. Is there anything I need to add to the command in order for shell to output the progress? Thanks! Ingo

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different float accuracy betw. Pd-0.52-1-msw-i386 and Pd-0.52-1-msw-amd64
by musil＠iem.at 11 Feb '22

11 Feb '22

ISSUE: floating-point-inaccuracy of low frequency filters with low frequency signals in pd vanilla The patch "Test_HP3_butterworth_(a)_20_Hz.pd" is part of the Live Electronic of K.H.Stockhausens piece Mikrophonie I. My colleague David P. told me, that there occur hearable noise, distortion, oscillations and rustling during perfoming this piece. The test-patch is a 0.1 Hz oscillator sourcing a highpass filter 3.order with butterworth characteristic at 20 Hz. Try this patch with pd-0.52-1-msw-i386 and amd64 aka 32-bit and 64-bit and older pd versions. The 32 bit version has 20 dB less noise than the 64 bit version (and no oscillations). Double precision filters of iemlib ("hp3_butt_dp~.pd") have less noise than single precision filters. IOhannes z. and Chrostof R. figured out, it depends on compiler options -ffast-math and / or -fassociative-math. Some screenshots are added. have fun Thomas Musil

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Re: [PD] [midifile]
by Dan Wilcox 11 Feb '22

11 Feb '22

I agree, this is an established aspect of patching in Pd and changing it is not likely possible at this point. A positive reinforcement for using trigger is that it's simply more readable. I also admit to using fanning when I know order isn't as important for that case, I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out after being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included a mini "Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order differences, ie. on canvas placement versus creation order. Forgive me if this info is in our documentation, I admit to not having gone through it since circa 2006 when I first started with Pd. > On Feb 10, 2022, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:30:36 +0100 > From: Roman Haefeli <reduzent(a)gmail.com <mailto:reduzent@gmail.com>> > To: pd-list(a)lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at> > Subject: Re: [PD] [midifile] > Message-ID: <32c6cc64713fab78eae64728309bb95975471116.camel(a)gmail.com <mailto:32c6cc64713fab78eae64728309bb95975471116.camel@gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On Thu, 2022-02-10 at 10:09 +0100, Max wrote: > >> Should Pd warn the user when one outlet is connected to multiple >> objects? > > I'd rather want Pd not to do that. > > 1) There are too many cases where fanning outlet connections are OK. > > 2) I believe it's more valuable if people do not fanning connections > because they understand their implications rather than because a > message tells them to avoid them. > > 3) I'm personally not so fond of the idea of giving people patching > advice. -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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Re: [PD] Pd-list Digest, Vol 203, Issue 12
by Samuel Burt 10 Feb '22

10 Feb '22

Having used Pd for two decades, this still catches me occasionally. I was only able to debug the problem because I knew this could be an issue. Guess the UI doesn't allow for some kind of subtle indication that you've fanned connections from an outlet. Would be nice though if a little "x2", "x3", and "x4" would pop up next to your mouse cursor when you are making a connection and mouse over the next inlet. Not sure if this would even be trackable using send and receive, because this is another place where one outlet can go to multiple inlets in a manner that feels indeterminate. Sam On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 7:37 AM <pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at> wrote: > Send Pd-list mailing list submissions to > pd-list(a)lists.iem.at > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pd-list-owner(a)lists.iem.at > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Pd-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: [midifile] (Dan Wilcox) > 2. Re: [midifile] (IOhannes m zmoelnig) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 12:53:07 +0100 > From: Dan Wilcox <danomatika(a)gmail.com> > To: Roman Haefeli <reduzent(a)gmail.com> > Cc: Pd-List <pd-list(a)lists.iem.at> > Subject: Re: [PD] [midifile] > Message-ID: <47594F6D-C540-45DD-99AA-7FE0F47A2E49(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I agree, this is an established aspect of patching in Pd and changing it > is not likely possible at this point. A positive reinforcement for using > trigger is that it's simply more readable. I also admit to using fanning > when I know order isn't as important for that case, > > I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out after > being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included a > mini "Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order > differences, ie. on canvas placement versus creation order. Forgive me if > this info is in our documentation, I admit to not having gone through it > since circa 2006 when I first started with Pd. > > > On Feb 10, 2022, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:30:36 +0100 > > From: Roman Haefeli <reduzent(a)gmail.com <mailto:reduzent@gmail.com>> > > To: pd-list(a)lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at> > > Subject: Re: [PD] [midifile] > > Message-ID: <32c6cc64713fab78eae64728309bb95975471116.camel(a)gmail.com > <mailto:32c6cc64713fab78eae64728309bb95975471116.camel@gmail.com>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > On Thu, 2022-02-10 at 10:09 +0100, Max wrote: > > > >> Should Pd warn the user when one outlet is connected to multiple > >> objects? > > > > I'd rather want Pd not to do that. > > > > 1) There are too many cases where fanning outlet connections are OK. > > > > 2) I believe it's more valuable if people do not fanning connections > > because they understand their implications rather than because a > > message tells them to avoid them. > > > > 3) I'm personally not so fond of the idea of giving people patching > > advice. > > -------- > Dan Wilcox > @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> > danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> > robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/> > > > >

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Manual reply for list digests (was Re: Pd-list Digest, Vol 203, Issue 12)
by Dan Wilcox 10 Feb '22

10 Feb '22

If you are using Apple Mail, as I am, it doesn't natively handle Mailman digest messages from the list. If you hit reply, it then replies to the *entire* digest ala "Re: P-List Digest, Vol..." and thus creates a new thread instead of building upon the previous by using the same subject line. What I generally try to do in Apple Mail is: 1. select the part of the digest I wish to reply to by drag selecting the text 2. hit reply 3. copy the subject line from the individual message in I'm replying to in the digest email body & replace the subject line in the new message 4. adjust the To: line as needed, copy paste the name/email address to whom I want to reply to directly and move the Pd-list to CC, as needed > On Feb 10, 2022, at 6:37 PM, pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 12:37:34 -0500 > From: Samuel Burt <composer.samuel.burt(a)gmail.com <mailto:composer.samuel.burt@gmail.com>> > To: Pd-list <pd-list(a)lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>> > Subject: Re: [PD] ?fan-out (was Re: Pd-list Digest, Vol 203, Issue > 12) > Message-ID: > <CAFwwLiS=q1KdwDfutDtVAUk4K_jPh8Qiy61A-Qnj9of6ngBWow(a)mail.gmail.com <mailto:CAFwwLiS=q1KdwDfutDtVAUk4K_jPh8Qiy61A-Qnj9of6ngBWow@mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Sorry about the bad subject. Don't post too regularly and not sure the best > way to reply to a thread here. Guess it's just reply, change subject, > delete irrelevant parts of the thread. I do appreciate your patience and > continued conversation. -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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Re: [PD] fan-out (was Re: Pd-list Digest, Vol 203, Issue 12)
by Samuel Burt 10 Feb '22

10 Feb '22

Sorry about the bad subject. Don't post too regularly and not sure the best way to reply to a thread here. Guess it's just reply, change subject, delete irrelevant parts of the thread. I do appreciate your patience and continued conversation. An even better feature would be to hover over an outlet and see the connected inlets and/or cables highlighted. I generally make neat patches that are easy to follow, but even with neat patches there can be a lot of crossed cables. I imagine implementing this would be even more difficult. Is Pd's GUI kept really simple because it's difficult to implement new features or because it's important to keep a low impact on the cpu? IOhannes, I didn't even know you could connect an inlet-outlet pair twice. What is the effect? Does it send the data twice at control rate and does is it additive with signals? Sam > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 14:58:37 +0100 > From: IOhannes m zmoelnig <zmoelnig(a)iem.at> > To: pd-list(a)lists.iem.at > Subject: [PD] fan-out (was Re: Pd-list Digest, Vol 203, Issue 12) > Message-ID: <47069476-79c9-d40c-1069-6f71aba0660f(a)iem.at> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > > hi. > > it would be super-cool if you could change the subject to something > meaningful before replying to a digest mail. > > On 2/10/22 14:39, Samuel Burt wrote: > > Having used Pd for two decades, this still catches me occasionally. I was > > that's the reason why i think that statements like "Fanning out to cold > control inlets is perfectly fine" and "I also admit to using fanning > when I know order isn't as important for that case" are problematic. > not because they are wrong (they are objectively correct), but because > they encourage bad habits which are hard to come by. > > > > only able to debug the problem because I knew this could be an issue. > Guess > > the UI doesn't allow for some kind of subtle indication that you've > fanned > > connections from an outlet. Would be nice though if a little "x2", "x3", > > and "x4" would pop up next to your mouse cursor when you are making a > > connection and mouse over the next inlet. > > dunno. > if you are currently creating a fan-out you are hopefully aware that you > are doing just that (i think it's *really* hard to not notice that an > outlet already has a connection going out). > so the problem is not to make people aware that they are fanning out, > but to make people aware that this might introduce message ordering > problems. > > in the meantime, use triggerize (Ctrl+a Ctrl+t) to resolve all your > fan-outs. > > gfmkdf > IOhannes >

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[midifile]
by Samuel Burt 10 Feb '22

10 Feb '22

I'm working with [midifile] to create algorithmic scores from analog-style synthesis models. Really I'm at the beginning stages of doing so. My flow is to generate data, write it into a MIDI file, and then open it in Finale to see the results. Unfortunately, I'm seeing an accumulation of previous notes that appears at the start of each measure. Here's a picture of the patch and the output: https://i.imgur.com/t4naCah.png Any idea what I'm doing wrong? I'm assuming there might be some kind of problem with how I'm creating noteoff commands. What I remember from study is that the MIDI spec has both noteon and noteoff messages, but most instruments just use noteon messages with zero velocity. Do sequencers translate those zero velocity messages into noteoff messages before saving them into a file? Thanks, Sam

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save MIDI with [text] or [textfile]
by Samuel Burt 09 Feb '22

09 Feb '22

Hi, list. Has anyone made an external to create MIDI files with [text] or [textfile]? Is this even possible? I'm only familiar with MIDI messages. I don't know about other information in a MIDI file like tempo, time signature, and metadata. Could it be created as text or is this impossible? It sure would be nice to have a vanilla way to create MIDI files. I'm working with [midifile] right now and am having issues. Will track these problems in a separate post. Sam

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unauthorize / freeverb externals
by alex tuca 05 Feb '22

05 Feb '22

hallo, for a friend, i am looking for this precompiled windows64 externals. unauthorized freeverb if anyone has them, could you please share a download link, would also be good in deken. thanks, alexander

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Pd-list February 2022