Pd-list December 2014

pd-list@lists.iem.at

66 participants
85 discussions

GEM: is there a way to increase (perhaps hack) the limit on the number of GEM/OpenGL lights above 8
by darren＠webel.com.au 09 Dec '14

09 Dec '14

PD-0.42.5-extended-20100501 on Mac OS X 10.8.5. I have just returned to examining an old GEM project that uses an ambitious (or foolish) 60 (!) GEM lights to simulate 30 real LEDs, using 1 [light] and 1 [spot_light] combined for each LED, achieving a nice effect. But only some of the GEM lights seemed to have any effect. On reading the GEM manual again I easily found out why (I had not paid enough attention to the console error messages). At http://puredata.info/downloads/gem/documentation/manual/manual/lighting it clearly states: 'GEM has only a maximum of 8 lights at one time. If you try to create more lights than that, you will get an error message.' (BTW it might be a good idea to include this fact in the basic help docs for [light] and [spot_light] if it has not already been included in a more recent version of Pd, I am using an older version). Q: Is there any known way to "hack" GEM+OpenGL to increase the number of supported lights ? I found a discussion on the limit of 8 light as stated in the OpenGL Redbook from 31 Aug 2010 at: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3583735/opengl-lights-limit '8 lights is the limitation of fixed GL pipeline, where you enable each of them, set mode, parameters, etc. Now you have pixel shaders, and lighting is done within shader. There you can use large number of dynamic (not backed into textures) lights. You only need to supply all these lights' parameters sufficiently (maybe, in a texture), and test how many lights your shader is able to process. Also, in shader you can cull too weak lights (contributing too little into pixel value) or just too distant ones. Update: complex shader with branching can even generate lights (think of long street or christmas tree). It could be more efficient than supply large number of parameters. (alxx)' I appreciate any feedback on how one might get around this 8 GEM light limit. I am willing to play with code hacks and recompilations on Mac OS X for this particular task. Indeed I am basically willing to melt my MacBook Pro to get this to work with 60 GEM lights. For the sake of this forum question, it does not matter why I need to have a whopping 60 GEM lights; The real-world system I am simulating with GEM has 30 actual LEDs in it, there is just no way around that. And the LEDs have to be able to move (translate/rotate), and they have to really act like moving, shining, driven lights. I can compromise a bit on the combination of [light] + [spot_light] for each simulated LED but it's not as nice (noting each LED also has a backing reflector, also simulated in GEM). The effect with just 4 simulated LEDs = 8 GEM lights (3 x ([light]+{spot_light]) is quite gorgeous already. But I do really need 60 GEM/OpenGL lights in one scene somehow to complete this simulation properly (noting the main point of the exercise is to actually simulate many LED lights, it's just a light-rich problem). The effect with the real-world system with lots of real LEDs is absolutely stunning. Ultimately, I want to have many sets (each in a Pd patch) of 30 simulated LEDs, i.e. many sets of 60 GEM/OpenGL lights. It's easy of course to wish for things. Glad for any tips, Darren Kelly PS: And in case you are wondering, not it's not a simulation of an Xmas tree full of LEDs, although being able to simulate 30 LEDs or more in GEM would be a nice early Xmas prezzie for me. -- Webel IT Australia, "The Elements of the Web" http://www.webel.com.au

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Natural Log Compression?
by Stephan Horvath 07 Dec '14

07 Dec '14

Hello, I'm building my own compressor and I've been analysing patches I've found but I can't figure out a part of this one. If you open the patch [st-compressor], then open the [pd workings] subpatch and then the [pd rh_scalelog] subpatch, I can't figure out why 'Roman H' is using natural log for ratio, attack and release. I must be missing something because on another patch [tb_compressor~], all it uses for the ratio is [ratio( | [swap 1] | / [/ ] | [s $0-ratio] This is obviously calculating the inverse of the ratio, which has a 0-100 range. I would really like to know what is the idea behind Roman's rh_scalelog. Thanks

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many library
by Andres Ferrari 07 Dec '14

07 Dec '14

testing the "many" library. great work!!! thanks you, Hans-Christoph Steiner Andrés Ferrari G.

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Computer Vision with Pure Data
by Jonathan Aardestrup 07 Dec '14

07 Dec '14

Hello, I am working on a university project using Pure Data for computer vision in order to investigate possible advantages or disadvantages in a music related interaction context. The idea is to detect hands from an up-facing webcam in order to simulate a camera on a touch pad. I've spend some weeks to get familiar with the objects in Gem namely pix and pix_opencv, but even with objects such as pix_opencv_bgstats or pix_opencv_bgsubstract, alone or in combination with other objects, have I been able to get a clear binary image to detect motion from. If you could possibly have a look at my code and give me some hints to how I could improve it I would *really* appreciate it! Other suggestions are also most welcome! What I want it to do is detect hand (preferably without arm?) and give me the following readings: x-pos, y-pos, x-direction, y-direction, x-acceleration, y-acceleration and blob size. x and y being for the center of the detected hand. Multiple blobs would also be great but I can't really understand how to use it so far. I've attached one out of many attempts for the right solution. I am using some objects from pix_opencv library which (in case you don't already have it) can be found here: http://giss.tv/wiki/index.php/Opencv_for_PD#DOWNLOAD_.26_INSTALL <https://mail.aau.dk/owa/redir.aspx?C=AfeyM9F6NEuKyXWfCaqyUJjUEYZM49EIDcxZae…> The best Jonathan

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[PD-announce] NIME2015 CfP
by Jesse T Allison 07 Dec '14

07 Dec '14

The Artistic Program deadline has been extended to Friday, December 12th. You have a few more precious days to submit to NIME 2015! :::Submission Deadlines::: Artistic program: Performances & Installation works including special call for the DMC Theatre December 7, 2014 December 12, 2014 Scientific program: Papers, Workshops, Demonstrations: Draft submission (mandatory): January 23, 2015 Final submission: January 30, 2015 NIME 2015 May 31 – June 3, 2015 Louisiana State University Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA http://nime2015.lsu.edu https://nime2015.lsu.edu/call-for-works/ Artistic Program Call for Performances We invite submission of proposals for performances and installations. Proposed performances should have a clear connection with the substance of the NIME conference. We expand the notion of NIME in the performance program to include the exploration of existing interfaces into new sounds, new methods, or new ways of being physical. These performances might re-insert the body into digital performance, or they might suggest new modes of performing and the presentation of live music that go beyond existing practices while exploiting the unique affordances of interfaces and technologies. We encourage submissions that explore: • Novel and exploratory use of interfaces in performance • Both old and new interfaces • Use of innovative, imaginative and creative methods. We invite you to consider fully what a performance can be: you should go well beyond demonstrating the interface and we will consider any performance that is in the realm of live, electronically-produced sound, where an interface is central to the realisation of the music. Special Call – Digital Media Center Theatre The LSU Center for Computation & Technology’s Digital Media Center Theatre is a custom-designed immersive audio and video environment. The theatre hosts a Christie 4k digital projector, and a Meyer Constellation sound system, with 71 discrete channels and up to 40 directlyaccessibleaudiochannels. Weareinterestedinperformancesthatuse4kvideoand/or massively large loudspeaker arrays as essential components of the work. Also, demonstrations or papers that address massively large loudspeaker arrays are welcome. For more detailed specifications visit https://emdm.music.lsu.edu/research/sound-spatialization/ or contact us at nime-music(a)cct.lsu.edu<mailto:nime-music@cct.lsu.edu> Call for Installations NIME 2015 seeks installation and sculptural work to showcase at several locations in Baton Rouge. The theme for all venues will focus on an amalgamation of NIME topics listed below. Special consideration will be given to projects that embody a combination of qualities that are visual, aural, and tangible. Submitted proposals will be subject to a peer review process by an international expert committee. Installations picked to be shown at the LSU Digital Media Center will be exhibited during the length of the conference. Installations picked to be shown at the LSU Museum of Art and the LSU Glassell Gallery will be invited to be part of a longer exhibition spanning a month. These pieces will be shown alongside several invited sound artists whose work addresses NIME. Scientific Program Call for Papers We welcome submissions of original research on scientific and artistic use of new interfaces for musical expression. A non-exhaustive list of NIME related topics is found below. This list is inclusive and indicative. The thematic focus of this year’s edition is Visual | Aural | Tangible and is described in the introduction above. We also encourage submissions that extend, stretch, or challenge the NIME topics and themes. Topics Core topics central to NIME include the following. In addition to submissions that address specific themes of this year’s edition of the conference, original contributions are encouraged in, but not limited to, the following topics: • Novel controllers and interfaces for musical expression • Novel musical instruments • Augmented/hyper instruments • Novel controllers for collaborative performance • Sensor and actuator technologies • Haptic and force feedback devices • Motion, gesture and music • Interfaces for dance and physical expression • Multimodal expressive interfaces • Interfaces for musical expression for hearing or visually impaired people • Interactive game music • NIME intersections with game design • Robotic music • Mobile music technology and performance paradigms • Biological and bio-inspired systems • Musical mapping strategies • Embedded musical instruments and embedded sound art installations • Interactive sound art and installations • Musical human-computer interaction • Interaction design and software tools • Interface protocols and data formats • Sonic interaction design • Issues in perception, cognition, computational musicology and music analysis • Performance analysis • Performance rendering and generative algorithms • Machine learning in musical performance • Experiences with novel interfaces in live performance and composition • Surveys of past work and stimulating ideas for future research • Historical studies in twentieth-century instrument design • Artistic, cultural, and social impact of NIME technology • Novel interfaces in music education and entertainment • Reports on student projects in the framework of NIME-related courses • Practice-based research approaches/methodologies/criticism • User studies/evaluations of NIME • Language and state in live interaction • Musicianship of new musical interfaces • Platforms and frameworks for musical interaction design Organizing Committee NIME 2015 is hosted by the Cultural Computing focus area, Center for Computation & Technology (avatar.cct.lsu.edu<http://avatar.cct.lsu.edu>), and the LSU School of Music Experimental Music & Digital Media program (emdm.music.lsu.edu<http://emdm.music.lsu.edu>) at Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA. General Inquiries: nime(a)cct.lsu.edu<mailto:nime@cct.lsu.edu> Academic Inquiries: nime-papers(a)cct.lsu.edu<mailto:nime-papers@cct.lsu.edu> Music Inquiries: nime-music(a)cct.lsu.edu<mailto:nime-music@cct.lsu.edu> Installation: nime-art(a)cct.lsu.edu<mailto:nime-art@cct.lsu.edu> Workshops: nime-workshops(a)cct.lsu.edu<mailto:nime-workshops@cct.lsu.edu> Volunteers: nime-volunteer(a)cct.lsu.edu<mailto:nime-volunteer@cct.lsu.edu> -Dr. Jesse Allison | Assistant Professor of Experimental Music & Digital Media - LSU School of Music | Cultural Computing - LSU Center for Computation & Technology | http://emdm.music.lsu.edu | http://avatar.lsu.edu/ | jtallison(a)lsu.edu<mailto:jtallison@lsu.edu> | 225.578.5572 _______________________________________________ Pd-announce mailing list Pd-announce(a)lists.iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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Cyclone suite initiative
by Fred Jan Kraan 05 Dec '14

05 Dec '14

Hi everyone, Recently I started on improving the help-patches of the cyclone library. The idea is to convert then all to the format used by the pd-core objects in pd-vanilla, which is also the standard with Pd-l2ork and try to improve them a bit on the way. It is part of a larger initiative to fix the remaining problems with the cyclone suite and improve it on newer platforms, including 64-bit systems and ARM-architectures. Awaiting permission to submit the changes into the SVN-repository (hint, hint, ...), I collect the help-patches on this page: http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/index.html. (Already at 30+ of 150+, so ~20% :-) ). Remarks on these patches or on cyclone objects in general are welcome. Fred Jan

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(breaking symbols) was Re: find a list of numbers in a text file
by Alexandre Torres Porres 05 Dec '14

05 Dec '14

now, some files come in ratios as one symbol like this 5/4 3/2 7/4 I'd need to break them into different characters, then treat as numbers to get interval in cents. How do I do that? I believe I can't do it in any way with vanilla objects, right? thanks Alex 2011/8/3 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres(a)gmail.com> > yeah, it works :) > > I knew there had to be an easier way other than the mess I did. > > Perfect, Thanks > > This is a very cool addon feature to my stuff I'm showing at PdCon, see you > all there. > > See you all there soon! > > > > > 2011/8/3 Miller Puckette <msp(a)ucsd.edu> > >> HI Alex -- >> >> Have you tried sending textfile an "open [my-filename] cr" message? The >> "cr" flag asks to interpret newlines as end-of-list. >> >> cheers >> Miller >> >> On Tue, Aug 02, 2011 at 11:51:17PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: >> > Hi folks >> > >> > Back in the end of my masters, I did make something that allows you to >> load >> > scales from the Scala software into Pd, which has a database of over >> 4000 >> > scales. >> > >> > Check the software and data bank here >> http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/ >> > >> > It's an extremely powerful tool for microtonality, but you may not care >> for >> > that and just want to use the scale data bank in Pd. >> > >> > Anyway, I have a way that exports the from the Scala software into a >> text >> > file that opens in this specific subpatch of mine. >> > >> > But I was trying to do something easier, and that is just load these >> *.scl >> > files into [textfile] or [msgfile] for example, and extracting the list >> of >> > these scale intervals in cents. >> > >> > Here's what one of these files look like >> > >> > >> > ============== >> > >> > ! 08-11.scl >> > ! >> > 8 out of 11-tET >> > 8 >> > ! >> > 218.18182 >> > 327.27273 >> > 436.36364 >> > 654.54545 >> > 763.63636 >> > 872.72727 >> > 1090.90909 >> > 2/1 >> > >> > >> > =============== >> > >> > So I assumed it'd be easy to extract each cents value and make a list >> out of >> > it, but I was wrong. Don't know why but it doesn't load this in separate >> > lines, maybe because it is not a *.txt file at all. >> > >> > And anyway, I'm getting in Pd just a list, so the above file, for >> example, >> > file becomes >> > >> > >> > list ! 08-11.scl ! 8 out of 11-tET 8 ! 218.182 327.273 436.364 654.545 >> > 763.636 872.727 1090.91 2/1 >> > >> > >> > I seem to have found a messy way to get the list out of it, but maybe >> you >> > people know of something really simple and elegant with some extended >> > objects. >> > >> > >> > Thanks >> > Alex >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> >

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error while closing a patch in pd-extended 0.43.4
by Nicola Pandini 04 Dec '14

04 Dec '14

Hi, sometimes I get a strange error when I close a patch full of canvas: > (Tcl) invalid command name ".x95c1d70.c" > while executing > ".x95c1d70.c delete graph9685b80i0" > ("uplevel" body line 3269) > invoked from within > "uplevel #0 $cmds_from_pd".x2145c60: no such object > .x2145c60: no such object > .x2145c60: no such object > .x2145c60: no such object > .x2145c60: no such object ... > .x2145c60: no such object > .x2145c60: no such object > .x2145c60: no such object The program then stops responding, and I have to kill the pd process. This error seems to have more chances to happens when other subpatches (fulls of canvas) are currently visible. -- Nicola

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assistive music technology
by Peter O'Doherty 03 Dec '14

03 Dec '14

Hi, Does anyone on this list have experience (or know of anyone who does) with using PD in assistive music technology settings (i.e. physically disabled users)? Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Peter

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Re: [PD] Fwd: PDCon (was Updated pd-extended)
by Chris McCormick 02 Dec '14

02 Dec '14

Hello, Random self-organising PdCon architecture idea: 1. Pick a location that matches the following criteria: * Not too expensive to fly/get to for majority of people. * Somewhere where bulk accommodation is cheap (e.g. camp site). * Located close to amenities so people can organise their own food etc. 2. Pick a date. 3. Crowd-fund from this community the cost of hiring a large-ish camp style venue in that location for a few days or a week. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BarCamp> 4. Run "bar camp" style self-organizing PdCon where participants nominate their own talks for the various time slots of the conference on a wiki such as a page on the pure-data.info site. With regards to (1) there must be suitable places in the USA that meet these criteria (although big cities like NY seem to be out) but it would also be fun to find a large venue somewhere like Bali or Manila or a small town in India (Hyderabad seems to have particularly cheap flights for some reason), Chile, rural Italy etc. The Southeast Asia region looks particularly attractive from a flight-cost point of view and amenities would generally be very cheap. Obviously it would need to be reasonably well connected so people can actually get there without too much expense/hassle. Where are the hidden gems that match this criteria? Self-organising conference by a group of Pure Data nerds in a place none of us has been before - what could possibly go wrong? ;) Cheers, Chris. On 27/09/14 19:23, Joseph Deken wrote: > I would like to feel that NB is always a *resource* and not a *constraint.* > > I'd be happy to help, especially if NB efforts would bring much more > *community contact* into the Pdcon setting. ("Bring the person on the > street into the university" as I believe Jaime said about his new > Waverly Labs). > > I have direct evidence of Kansas including a large piece of flint and > some roadside wildflowers growing in a coffee mug in my car from the > Flint Hills. In the Flint Hills you will also find the farm (along > I-70 in fact) where Connie grew up! Evidence indeed. > > On Fri, 26 Sep 2014, Miller Puckette wrote: > >> One potential organizer is thinking about throwing a Pd convention in >> Kansas - >> I have no idea if it's a real possibility. >> >> I think UCSD would be a bad place for it since the cost of visiting >> here is so >> high - and UCSD always wants to rechanrge everything, so we'd end up >> being >> out tens of thousands of dollars. OTOH, a lightweight organization in a >> cheap part of the coutry could throw a spectacular one. And if there is >> enough synergy, New Blankets could join as a collaborator. >> >> That said I've never been to Kansas - I assume there actually is one >> but have >> only seen it in books. >> >> cheers >> Miller >> >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 06:52:17AM -0500, Joseph Deken wrote: >>> I can see "plus and minus" aspects. One of the charms of PdWeekend >>> has been that it's just a small gathering of "Miller Puckette and >>> friends." As it is, I've been able to make all the arrangements >>> single-handedly (allowing always various hiccups). So it's very >>> lightweight and I think that Miller's always willing to put it >>> on his crowded calendar because of that. >>> >>> PdCon would definitely allow more people to participate. But I think >>> the >>> administration would be beyond my abilities/desires. If e.g. Peter Otto >>> or someone wanted to put a PdCon together as a UCSD effort or some such, >>> of course I'd be glad to help with it. >>> >>> Last year and this year we had some (unfulfilled) ideas of useful >>> video recordings (This year, Sofy had planned to do Ustream but it >>> didn't happen). So on a related matter I'd say that even if PdWeekend >>> stays small for the advantages of that, we should *try harder* next >>> year to produce effective video, networked live sessions, or other >>> means of widening the participation and the downstream benefits of our >>> little meeting. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 25 Sep 2014, Jaime E Oliver wrote: >>> >>>> btw >>>> >>>> Have you ever considered a PdCon in San Diego? >>>> >>>> I am thinking it is like a Pd Weekend except a bit larger… >>>> >>>> best, >>>> >>>> J >>>> >>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>> >>>>> From: "me.grimm" <megrimm(a)gmail.com> >>>>> Subject: [PD] PDCon (was Updated pd-extended) >>>>> Date: September 25, 2014 9:40:47 PM EDT >>>>> To: Alexandre Torres Porres <porres(a)gmail.com> >>>>> Cc: Dan Wilcox <danomatika(a)gmail.com>, "pd-list(a)lists.iem.at" >>>>> <pd-list(a)lists.iem.at> >>>>> >>>>>>> I was waiting for the american PdCon and it never happened >>>>> >>>>> hans and dan had talked about this. maybe it could still happen? ed >>>>> had talked about london once i remember in '09? >>>>> >>>>>>> guess I'll have to make another south american one >>>>> >>>>> brazil? or somewhere else in s. america? do it! your a great >>>>> organizer.... :) >>>>> >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres >>>>> <porres(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> love those two ideas >>>>> >>>>> I could also add the idea of having some research group working on >>>>> it. At least here in Brazil I know a couple of people who'd like to >>>>> back it up. >>>>> >>>>> so yeah, I was waiting for the american PdCon and it never happened >>>>> :( guess I'll have to make another south american one >>>>> >>>>> cheers >>>>> >>>>> 2014-09-21 18:19 GMT-03:00 me.grimm <megrimm(a)gmail.com>: >>>>> >>>>>>> it involves time >>>>> >>>>> ... or money. >>>>> >>>>> maybe we revisit the kickstarter (or something else) idea brought >>>>> forth by jonathon a few years ago and just pay someone to do it. to >>>>> me it seems like 1) none of us really have any money (im just >>>>> assuming here we are all poor artists) and more importantly 2) none >>>>> of us really have any time and those that do might not have the >>>>> skills. >>>>> >>>>> OR maybe we have another PDCon (remember that?) to get amped up and >>>>> pump something out.... >>>>> >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Dan Wilcox <danomatika(a)gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> I talked to Hans about this a bit. In essence, it involves bringing >>>>> in the new pd vanilla source and making sure the Pd-extended >>>>> additions/modifications aren't lost. With the updates/cleanups to >>>>> the tcl/tk sources a few years ago (great work Hans et al!), it >>>>> should be alot easier than the previous extended releases. But >>>>> still, *easy* or not, it involves time. >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 21, 2014, at 6:00 AM, pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: Alexandre Torres Porres <porres(a)gmail.com> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Updated pd-extended >>>>>> Date: September 20, 2014 at 5:02:59 PM EDT >>>>>> To: Billy Stiltner <billy.stiltner(a)gmail.com> >>>>>> Cc: "pd-list(a)lists.iem.at" <pd-list(a)lists.iem.at> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I wish I knew something about coding to help out with its >>>>>> development :P I do care a lot about it though and wish I could >>>>>> help in some other way. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do see a few problems with extended, but they're basically >>>>>> related to some of the externals and libraries that sometimes do >>>>>> not work as they should, have bad and messy help files and are >>>>>> sometimes redundanct. If welcome, I could help sharing my thoughts >>>>>> and two cents about that, but I realize those are not actual bug >>>>>> fixes regarding the code, so it's not a priority on its to do list >>>>>> and issues for being updated to another release. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, while were at it, what kind of work exactly do you mean >>>>>> someone would have to do? I suppose there is a great list of bug >>>>>> fixes just to keep it basically what it is. Given the context, I'm >>>>>> not assuming any big to do list for some new features agenda. But >>>>>> besidesthe bug fixes, how hard is it for someone to just update to >>>>>> the latest vanilla core? >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, since Pd is an open source project that relies on community >>>>>> effort, and this is the list of its main developers and users, I >>>>>> guess this is the place to talk about a collaboration and see if >>>>>> we can get Pd-extended's development >>>>>> to continue. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd to help in any way I can. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> -------- >>>>> Dan Wilcox >>>>> @danomatika >>>>> danomatika.com >>>>> robotcowboy.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ____________________ >>>>> m.e.grimm | m.f.a | ed.m. >>>>> megrimm(a)gmail.com >>>>> _________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ____________________ >>>>> m.e.grimm | m.f.a | ed.m. >>>>> megrimm(a)gmail.com >>>>> _________________________________ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>> >>>> >> >> -- http://mccormick.cx/

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Pd-list December 2014