Pd-list March 2012

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130 participants
180 discussions

[PD-announce] Xth Sense Biophysical Music talk and performance, SARC Belfast
by Marco Donnarumma 23 Mar '12

23 Mar '12

Dear all, I'm glad to forward the information concerning the brilliant Sonorities Festival, at SARC, Sonic Arts Research Center, Belfast. I've been invited to speak about my model of biophysical music [1] in the plenary panel discussion and perform the piece Music for Flesh II [2]. Make sure to check the complete program on-line [3], below few info. March 24 16.00 - 18.00 Plenary Session - Body and Music with Atau Tanaka, Ben Knapp, Miguel Ortiz Perez, Marco Donnarumma, moderated by Simon Waters. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ March 25 1.10 pm Performances for Biosystems Miguel Ortiz - Dentro Marco Donnarumma - Music for Flesh II Conor Barry - BeatBack Samson Young - I am thinking in a room Hope to see some of you there, best wishes, [1] http://marcodonnarumma.com/works/xth-sense/ [2] http://marcodonnarumma.com/works/music-for-flesh-ii/ [3] http://www.qub.ac.uk/sonorities/ -- Marco Donnarumma New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director. ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com | http://www.thesaddj.com | http://www.flxer.net Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net _______________________________________________ Pd-announce mailing list Pd-announce(a)iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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OSC strings and Pd symbols
by Roman Haefeli 23 Mar '12

23 Mar '12

Hi all Nowadays, Pd supports UTF-8 and it's possible to type non-ASCII characters into a symbol box (or a message box, if you like). This is generally good thing. When working with [packOSC], every symbolic (non-number) element is treated automagically as a OSC string (unless you create type-forced OSC messages). This generally is also a good thing. The OSC specification states that OSC strings must only contain ASCII characters (which I find a real PITA). As a patch writer, however, I have no measure to make sure, that only pure ASCII symbols are sent to [packOSC]. Currently, the situation is that [packOSC] happily creates invalid (according to the specification) OSC strings, but only [unpackOSC] complains about it when receiving such a string. The error in the console: --- unpackOSC: PrintTypeTaggedArgs: Type tag said this arg is a string but it's not! --- I don't know what the best solution is to deal with that problem. Strictly sticking to the specification, [packOSC] shouldn't package Pd symbols containing non-ASCII chars into OSC strings in the first place or at least it should chop them off. Another way to deal with it would be to make [packOSC] and [unpackOSC] both support UTF-8 strings instead of ASCII-only strings. In other words, those classes would support an 'extended' OSC string type, which is fully compatible with the 'strict' OSC string type. This also would remove any constraints put on the kind of Pd symbols that can be used as OSC strings. Some (many/most?) other OSC implemenations are _not_ strict in that they do not check if the OSC strings only contain ASCII strings. I checked pyliblo and pyOSC and both allow to transmit deutsche Umlaute in strings. I don't know if there are also strict implementations. The current behaviour of [packOSC] and [unpackOSC] is IMHO the least favorable, in that it still allows to create 'invalid' OSC strings (possibly causing troubles with strict non-Pd receivers), but complains about them on reception. Any thoughts on this are welcome. Roman

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search plugin revision
by Jonathan Wilkes 22 Mar '12

22 Mar '12

Search plugin revision: 1) links to tutorials, manual, and other stuff to guide beginners on the front page 2) tutorial and libdir filebrowser obsoletes the <ctrl-B> HelpBrowser 3) folder icon allows to open any directory (or libdir) in external file browser 4) Found an object in the search results you've never seen before? Click the info icon to automatically open the readme file from the libdir author! 5) search results in alphabetical order, with internal objects listed first 6) see a hint in the statusbar for all links 7) description/author/license/version automatically listed for every libdir in the libdir format -Jonathan

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data structures- polygones with and without arrays
by Mirko Maier 22 Mar '12

22 Mar '12

hi list, is there a way to have in one window both polygones with and without arrays? at least i can define two separate templates, but then the pointer gets confused. on pd-ext 0.42, Win XP. thanks for help. cheers mirko -- NEU: FreePhone 3-fach-Flat mit kostenlosem Smartphone! Jetzt informieren: http://mobile.1und1.de/?ac=OM.PW.PW003K20328T7073a

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Re: [PD] porting a Pd patch to Max license issues
by Marco Donnarumma 22 Mar '12

22 Mar '12

Thanks everybody for the useful insights. Just to make clear my intent in choosing a GPL license: - keep the code free and open - encourage the use of free and open software - avoid the use of the code in proprietary environments. So, this is what I aim for, and I thought (maybe erroneously?) that GPL would be helpful in this sense. As Simon said "... you cannot distribute an executable derived from some GPL code which is statically linked to some incompatible code." This is the notion which I wish to rely on when distributing the code. Now, the clarification of the GPL license is clearly not straight-forward, although I learned a lot with this thread, so thanks! Probably, the simple fact that to produce executable code from the XS and distribute it one needs to go through all the terms of the GPL is enough to make someone's intention fail. Specially 'cause the XS is not the Ocarina. cheers, Marco > On 16/03/12 22:37, Bryan Jurish wrote: > > On 2012-03-16 05:58, Simon Wise wrote: > >> But generally this is not how an end user runs a Max executable ... they > >> do not have Max on their machine, the executable they receive includes > >> all required to run it. There are no Max "system libraries" to call, and > >> they do not have a "Max interpreter" on their system. > > > > No more does the usual windoof user have a Borland or VisualC compiler > > installed, nonetheless it's totally legitimate (from the GPL side) to > > compile GPL code with one of these closed-source, commercial software > > packages and distribute the resulting executables, provided only that > > the source code for the *program* remains under GPL -- the GPL doesn't > > claim that because someone used Borland C to compile a GPL'd program and > > shared the result that Borland C must be GPL: that would be absurd... > > The relevant difference between a compiled C program and a Max executable > is > that the C libraries that the compiled C program links to dynamically are > on the > users system, and installed quite separately from the GPL program ... > these are > the exception referred to in the GPL as system libraries ... however _all_ > libraries linked statically and included with the compiled C program must > be > open source and compatibly licensed if you want to distribute the resulting > binary if _some_ of it is built using GPL code. > > In the case of a Max executable the Max libraries, and the other Max > objects > that were in the patch, are not on the users system ... they are included > as > part of the executable. If parts of that executable are GPL and parts are > incompatible with GPL then you may use it yourself (for example to run on > another computer for which you do not have a Max license) but the GPL does > not > allow you to distribute it (for example give it to the person you wrote it > for, > so they can use it on a machine that does not have a Max license). > > > > Such commercial C compilers also often include local utility libraries > > with very lax redistribution conditions, so that their users can legally > > do things like that. The Max license might deal with compiled > > executables differently or incompatibly; I don't know. > > exactly - this ensures that the required libraries can be built and > distributed > as system libraries, or are perhaps in a form that is compatible with your > main > license and can be linked statically. > > Max however ensures the opposite. The internal Max objects are very much > not > licensed with "lax redistribution conditions", nor are the parts of Max > you will > be linking with. You must buy Max to use it to interpret a Max patch > directly, > or to save/compile a patch as an independent executable. You can however > run > this saved Max executable without buying Max, or having any Max libraries > in > your system, or having any Max interpreter or virtual machine or whatever. > > In both cases this is intentional, not something that is an accident of the > implementation details. And it is quite unlike running a java app on a > local > java VM, or linking with a closed source library you have either been > given or > have purchased a license for and then installed locally. > > I believe it is only distributing a saved executable which includes GPL > code > that is not allowed. Distributing a Max patch where some of the components > are > GPL (and which will be interpreted by Max locally) is probably fine. It > seems > reasonable to me to consider those GPL components in isolation when they > are > simply part of a patch which is in itself the source code for an > interpreter. > > But distributing the saved executable is the usual practice in the Max way > of > doing things, if you are making something for somebody else. > > > > >>>> p.s. I would be happy if it was. > >> > >> I'd say, but I am not a lawyer, that it certainly is partly the case - > >> GPLed libraries can't be part of standalone executables that are > >> distributed to another party. > > > > ... unless the "corresponding source" of those executables is itself > > made available under the GPL... with which we're back to system > libraries. > > But the corresponding source cannot be made available ... parts of the > source > correspond to parts of the internal Max code, or to closed-source Max > objects, > and these parts are not available to be distributed ... the binary parts > derived > from this non-distributable code is included in the executable and is in > no way > a "system library" ... it is not on the users system independently, it is > only > present inside the executable in question! ... And this binary is not a > compiled > version of the patch ready to be "interpreted" by Max ... there is no > interpreter installed locally to run it, yet it runs fine and quite > independently. > > You can, I think, distribute a Max patch which has some GPL objects in it > (as > long as you comply with the GPL for those objects and any restrictions on > other > objects). Then anyone can run it using Max as the interpreter, or compile > it for > their own use. But you cannot distribute an executable derived from some > GPL > code which is statically linked to some incompatible code. This is equally > true > of the output of a C compiler ... if the executable that results from > compiling > GPL code includes libraries that are incompatible with the GPL (rather than > linking to external system libraries) then you cannot distribute the > result. > > > > > >>> Sorry if that's bad news for you... as Stallman would very likely not > >>> hesitate to point out, __any__ kind of restriction on what your users > >>> can or cannot do with your software makes that software less free, and > >>> is therefore generally a Bad Thing (at least for the FSF and those who > >>> share its interests and goals). > >> > >> Yes ... to _use_ for anything, by anybody, without restriction. But > >> distribution of executables is very deliberately restricted (in a way I > >> personally think is very appropriate), and must be accompanied with the > >> full, properly licensable and reusable under GPL, code for the _whole_ > >> executable. > > > > I agree -- in the case of C code it's pretty clear what is meant by > > "library", "linking", "using", etc., and of course what sort of > > creatures the "system libraries" are. For other languages, those terms > > get murky very quickly. I still think that a system library / > > interpreter / compiler exception might be made to apply, provided that > > the package source remained GPL, without trying to infect Max; but it > > seems to come down to a question of "linking" vs > "interpreting/compiling". > > The GPL in no way "tries to infect" any other code. That would be > impossible > anyway. A binary that is built from mixed GPL and more liberally licensed > but > compatible code must be accompanied by its complete source code - original > licenses remain intact, not just the GPL parts. > > This certainly restricts the ways that GPL code can be used significantly > more > than some other licenses do, since if you can't distribute your whole code > then > you can't use any GPL code. Projects may of course be tempted to restrict > themselves to compatible code so that they are able to make use of the > large > body of existing GPL code. > > >> With this in mind the motivation to port to Max may evaporate. > > > > Hmm... if we can keep up the debate on GPL arcana for another few > > weeks, I'd say it almost certainly will ;-) > > From the comments by the person who wrote the code it would seem he would > prefer it if that motivation did evaporate. That was probably related to > the > reason he chose GPL as the license for his code in the first place. > > The GPL is very clear in its intentions ... obviously any project that > does not > wish to restrict the use of their code in this way should not choose GPL > (and > should not make use of GPL code), and anyone looking for code to use > without > these restrictions should either look for code more liberally licensed, > offer to > buy a suitable license from the authors of some other existing code, or > write > their own code. > > I don't think this is GPL arcana ... rather it is the very up front and > explicit > intention of the license, and presumably many coders who use it. > > Trying to find loopholes to avoid this intention _is_ arcane and beside the > point outside a courtroom, and hopefully doomed to failure inside one. > Asking a > coder to change the license if you suspect they don't care for this > restriction > and just applied GPL as some kind of default without even reading the > preamble > is reasonable, but don't be surprised if they do in fact care. > > > Simon > > > -- Marco Donnarumma New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director. ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com | http://www.thesaddj.com | http://www.flxer.net Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net

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rjdj samplerate
by Matthias Moos 22 Mar '12

22 Mar '12

dear pd-list does anyone know if it is possible to alter the samplerate of rjdj from 22050** to 44100? I would need the audioband over 17'000 khz... ** as far as i know rjdj is set to this samplerate...

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[PD-announce] Pduino 0.5 maintenance release
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 22 Mar '12

22 Mar '12

Pduino 0.5 is finally released after being stuck at 0.5beta8 for a long time. This is a maintenance release, it will be my last release of Pduino for the foreseeable future. Roman Haefeli and Olsen Wolf are working on new developments for Firmata for Pd, so follow their work. http://puredata.info/downloads/pduino/ Most recent changes are: - use [comport] rather than [flatspace/comport] to work on Pd-extended 0.41, 0.42, and 0.43 - fix bug in tracking state of digital inputs, there was only one 8 pin object to track the state for all 8 ports of 8 pins (64 total digital inputs possible). .hc ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie _______________________________________________ Pd-announce mailing list Pd-announce(a)iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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New puredata.info styled online now!!
by Marco Donnarumma 22 Mar '12

22 Mar '12

Hey folks, the new Pd portal is out there in the wild!! Let the shock begin, and spread the voice! http://puredata.info if you think is crap, don't worry, everything can be reversed to the original version in a very simple way (I checked that). If you like it, please, help me making it even better! as you will notice, it looks ok when you are logged out, but try to login and see what happens. I didn't considered this difference, so I need to come up with a style for the Logged-in version. And that has to deal also with the usability of the interface, so I'll try to think of something good enough. I couldn't get rid of the Pd WebRing without breaking everything. I always loved it, but it looks like crap. So, ideas in this sense are also welcome. If we can make a News section as discussed before, the webring could become obsolete. Also, I couldn't get rid yet of all those icons. I don't like them, but ppl please tell me if you want them or not. @Nicolas: I'm writing here because I don't think the few ppl who gave feedback are on the web list. -- Marco Donnarumma New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director. ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com | http://www.thesaddj.com | http://www.flxer.net Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net

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New puredata.info styled online now!!
by ALAN BROOKER 22 Mar '12

22 Mar '12

damn.... the Recent Changes section has been spamo -ed - selling 'antipsychotic' drugs and such ( hhhmmm maybe I should try that out :S ) On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 9:27 PM, ALAN BROOKER <alan.brooker2010(a)gmail.com> wrote: > +1 > > thanks Marco...nice job! > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Roman Haefeli <reduzent(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hey Marco >> >> Though late, I still want to say that the new look is fresh. I like it. >> Nice Work! >> >> Roman >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

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[PD-announce] textsound released: run, edit and control pd patches from your iPad
by lopez lozano 21 Mar '12

21 Mar '12

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/textsound/id500491526?mt=8 http://apps4idevices.com/blog/2012/02/15/textsound-v1-0/ http://web.mac.com/automatized4/iWeb/textsound/support.html Write, edit, load, run and test the text of pd patches. Run four patches at the same time. Control your code with the predefined interface. Save your texts. textsound: Use your device for audio development. Edit and test the text of your desktop pd patches directly on your devise. Build yours own custom instruments. Prepare the patch on your device and perform on your desktop. And more... For any answer contact us at support page. _______________________________________________ Pd-announce mailing list Pd-announce(a)iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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Pd-list March 2012