Pd-list November 2012

pd-list@lists.iem.at

96 participants
119 discussions

Re: [PD] list vs. symbol array [was: Re: Licensing issues]
by Dan Wilcox 08 Nov '12

08 Nov '12

On Nov 7, 2012, at 8:49 PM, pd-list-request(a)iem.at wrote: > From: Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [PD] list vs. symbol array [was: Re: Licensing issues] > Date: November 7, 2012 8:45:49 PM EST > To: Frank Barknecht <fbar(a)footils.org>, "pd-list(a)iem.at" <pd-list(a)iem.at> > Reply-To: Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika(a)yahoo.com> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Frank Barknecht <fbar(a)footils.org> >> To: "pd-list(a)iem.at" <pd-list(a)iem.at> >> Cc: >> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 6:19 AM >> Subject: [PD] list vs. symbol array [was: Re: Licensing issues] >> >> I'm pretty sure, the patch at that time didn't either. The main problem >> then >> was the high frequency with which lookups had to happen. As a special election >> day service I have written a benchmark showing this situation. On my machine >> the symbolarray uses about 16 percent CPU at the "metro" period of >> 0.01 ms >> while list lookup uses 24. Now 0.01 ms may sound like a tempo you won't >> encounter in real music, but that's wrong: In chords you play many notes at >> the >> same time, the "period" then is a very fast 0 ms. This can generate >> CPU usage >> spikes on slow devices if the lookup is too slow - at least that's my >> explanation for why the symbolarray was able to fix the patch. > > [symbolarray] does indeed take about half as much cpu as using the message > box. It also takes exactly the same cpu as [makefilename %d-tab] which is > much simpler and doesn't require an abstraction. But maybe you needed > those specific names for the tables for some reason... > > A lot of these Pd vanilla prototypes suffer from already being at the very edge > of what can be developed with the prototype. You can't easily[1] add a sort method, > for example, nor can you extend the design to allow each element to be either a > symbol or float without adding two fields to the template struct and a conditional > that would impact the performance gain you get from using an array in the first > place. Not to mention the near-complete lack of operators for symbols which is > why I call it an array of Pet Rocks in this case. > > -Jonathan I didn't mean to bring up an externals vs vanilla debate. We obviously use what's best for the situation. I'm choosing to work more in vanilla land because I simply can't include some externals in my app. Plus, I know those patches will *just work* for everyone. We'll see in practice if this works, but I'd much rather avoid coding custom externals for this project. Also, does anyone know what cyclone's license is? I can't find the current version in the svn, but the old zip on the website has a BSD-like license. Having [coll] and [seq] would be very useful. It'd be nice to see these in vanilla at some point ... why reinvent the wheel? > [1] You can certainly split symbols and count their length in Pd vanilla but it ain't > pretty. [list-sort] in list-abs. -------- Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com

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Re: [PD] IBM & PureData
by Marco Donnarumma 08 Nov '12

08 Nov '12

ehehe, that would be fun. I'm still trying to understand what's the marketing strategy here, if any. M > Hi, > > I actually had considered naming the "Blocked Signal Processing (BSP)" > idiom > which I presented at LAC 2010 "Interrupted Block Mathematics" at first. I > didn't. > > Ciao > -- > Frank > >

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IBM & PureData
by Max 08 Nov '12

08 Nov '12

http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/puredata/ this new IBM Software will make searching the web for pure data even harder.

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Re: [PD] Licensing issues (was rjdj is gone, robotcowboy is coming ...)
by Dan Wilcox 08 Nov '12

08 Nov '12

I'll chime in on what Peter said. Pd-Extended itself doesn't have a global license, the licenses are individual to the externals. libpd itself is BSD so we can use it on iOS while some externals are GPL and we can't. I personally would *like* to have some available, but I also value the GPL and would not wish anyone to change a license just for my convenience at a cost to protections the GPL is designed to ensure. I'm not anti-Apple or anti-GPL, it's just a pragmatic approach to getting a working solution on good hardware. Unfortunately, Android still does not have good audio latency worked out, for instance. As I told Frank B, I've seen the "vanilla light". There is a whole lot you can do without externals and I'd highly recommend checking out rjlib: https://github.com/rjdj/rjlib. I will be rebuilding my patch library to work with rjlib and be vanilla compatible as it's the best way to know it works in libpd-land as well as on desktop. On Nov 3, 2012, at 11:08 AM, pd-list-request(a)iem.at wrote: > From: Peter Kirn <peter(a)createdigitalmedia.net> > Subject: Re: [PD] Licensing issues (was rjdj is gone, robotcowboy is coming ...) > Date: November 3, 2012 7:17:06 AM EDT > To: pd-list <pd-list(a)iem.at> > > > Hello, I just want to chime in here. > > I don't think it's accurate to say pd-extended is "GPL." pd-extended is essentially a distribution of externals, abstractions, and other conveniences. Obviously, developers are free to use what license they want. > > Yes, libpd and Pd-vanilla use an extremely permissive license. > > I believe it's possible to develop free software for iOS. I think on reflection it makes a stronger statement to reach that platform - locked-down as it may be - with free software than it does to ignore it. This means using a BSD- or MIT-style license and not GPL or LGPL; the earlier thread was right. Note that I think you *can* use a copyleft license for your patches, because these will run independently of iOS. > > There are other reasons - compatibility and simplicity being foremost - to favor vanilla in development with libpd whether or not you're using iOS. I think we may be overstating the problem here a bit. > > In other words, yes, Apple has a problem with GPL. But libpd developers I think don't have a problem with Apple, if that makes sense. And I think we make a stronger statement by showing how well the free solution works than we do banging our head against a brick wall. > > I believe in the GPL license, which is why we're using it on MeeBlip. But I think the short answer is, use BSD with libpd, try to default to vanilla, and maximize the contexts with which your software can be used. Add GPL or copyleft to patches to encourage others to share. That for me seems a pretty nice solution. > > Now, Apple aside, it does seem that it makes sense for external developers to use the same license as Pd. (Patches and abstractions are a different issues, because they're effectively content rather than part of your code.) But that's up to developers. > > Peter -------- Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com

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[PD-announce] next PD Patching Circle Graz- 13th of November 2012- Projection design
by Peter Venus 08 Nov '12

08 Nov '12

Hello All! on tuesday the 13th of november, we will held the next patching circle here in Graz. When: Tue, 13th of November, 21:00 sharp Where: CUBE, IEM, Inffeldgasse 10/3, 8010 Graz, Austria, 3rd Floor We will present and demonstrate the all new ExtendedViewToolkit v0.4 [1] and discuss possibilities in projection design in general and especially with the toolkit. The presentation is held in cooperation with the Institute for Electronic Music and Acoustics (IEM)/Art University Graz [2] and, thanks to Patrick Pagano, the Digital Worlds Institute/University of Florida [3]. It will be part of the Kunst und Neue Medien course held at the IEM and will be streamed to the Projection Design Course at UFL. Nevertheless, all of you are very welcome to attend the circle here in Graz. [1] http://extendedview.mur.at [2] http://iem.kug.ac.at/ [3] http://www.digitalworlds.ufl.edu/ cheers, Marian Weger & Peter Venus _______________________________________________ Pd-announce mailing list Pd-announce(a)iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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Re: [PD] close all patches on quit sourceforge patch
by Ivica Ico Bukvic 08 Nov '12

08 Nov '12

Hans and Iohannes, The following is FYI. Several months ago I integrated the close all patches before quitting patch in pd-l2ork and since then I've been experiencing extremely sporadic crashes on close that would hang pd-l2ork. Now, I am not sure this is because of architectural differences between regular pd and pd-l2ork but I doubt it since most of the said components are very similar if not identical. The bottom line is this only occurs on very low-powered machines (e.g. netbook) and relatively large patches and even then it does so very sporadically. Consequently, I implemented an improvement to the closing mechanism that consists of 2 additional steps and apparently alleviates said problems entirely: 1) disable further redraws (this prevents calling functions that may be referencing null pointers)--I have a special global var for this which is also being used to optimize redrawing (many actions in pd-l2ork are several times faster than regular pd as a result of this implementation--just look for do_not_redraw call in the source if curious) 2) suspend dsp before going through the patches (all sub-patches try to suspend it and resume it but for some reason, due to asynchronous nature of communication between tcl and c funny things occasionally happen on low-powered machines, so this way we ensure it is entirely off throughout the whole destruction process) Hope this helps! Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. Composition, Music Technology Director, DISIS Interactive Sound & Intermedia Studio Director, L2Ork Linux Laptop Orchestra Head, ICAT IMPACT Studio Virginia Tech Dept. of Music - 0240 Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-6139 (540) 231-5034 (fax) ico(a)vt.edu http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/bukvic/

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Re: [PD] cq2midi ? Polyphonic MIDI notes from audio
by jamal crawford 07 Nov '12

07 Nov '12

hi Thomas and list everything went smooth with compiling constantq~. when i open cq2midi.pd i get [list-map], [list-drip], [pyx. 1 2 noteflt] couldnt create. cq2midi is added to path. best ./j On Wed, Nov 7, 2012, at 10:56 AM, lamar odom wrote: > hi Thomas > > thanks for the reply. > best regards > ./j > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012, at 03:09 PM, Thomas Grill wrote: > > Hi Jamal, > > it is certainly possible. > > It is best done by first downloading flext (http://grrrr.org/flext) > > and using the flext build system (see readme.txt and build.txt) to > > compile and install flext and then the two externals (constantq~ and > > py/pyext) needed. > > Let me know if you need further assistance in the process. > > gr~~~ > > > > 2012/11/6 jamal crawford <threen52(a)ml1.net>: > > > hi Thomas > > > > > > i would love to try it on linux. > > > is it possible to compile it on linux? and how would you do that? > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > >> Message: 1 > > >> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:28:02 +0100 > > >> From: Thomas Grill <gr(a)grrrr.org> > > >> Subject: [PD] cq2midi ? Polyphonic MIDI notes from audio > > >> To: pd-list list <Pd-list(a)iem.at> > > >> Message-ID: <5EF303E4-4893-4849-95CD-12BC188BA7D8(a)grrrr.org> > > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > >> > > >> Hi all, > > >> I just added the cq2midi project to my list of software publications. > > >> This project tries to analyze a stream of digital audio data into MIDI > > >> notes. It does so not from a traditional musicological perspective (f0 > > >> analysis or the likes), but rather in a raw fashion, so that ?all? > > >> predominant frequencies of the spectrum at a certain time are interpreted > > >> as MIDI notes. Some filtering options are available to reduce noise. > > >> I originally designed this software to realize the composition luscinia > > >> megarhynchos for computer-controlled carillon, premiered at the Pure Data > > >> convention 2011 in Weimar. > > >> > > >> http://grrrr.org/research/software/cq2midi > > >> > > >> gr~~~ > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Thomas Grill > > >> http://grrrr.org > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------ > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Pd-list mailing list > > >> Pd-list(a)iem.at > > >> to manage your subscription (including un-subscription) see > > >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > >> > > >> > > >> End of Pd-list Digest, Vol 92, Issue 15 > > >> *************************************** > > > > > > -- > > > http://www.fastmail.fm - One of many happy users: > > > http://www.fastmail.fm/help/overview_quotes.html > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list > > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > -- > > Thomas Grill > > http://grrrr.org > > -- > http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an > unladen european swallow > -- http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...

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Pd -nogui on Raspberry Pi : problem with samplerate
by Pierre Massat 07 Nov '12

07 Nov '12

Dear List, While trying to use oggwrite~ on my RPi I noticed that it complained about being unable to change the samplerate from 0 to 44100. I turns out that Pd launched from the command line with the -nogui flag has a samplerate of 0 ! Adding the "-r 44100" flag doesn't change anything, nor does adding the "-alsa" flag. I wonder what causes this, whether it is a bug or not, and how Pd manages to work fine anyway (the only real problem i've had this far was with oggwrite~)... Any clue? Cheers, Pierre.

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Highest and Lowest values of array?
by Sebastian Valenzuela 07 Nov '12

07 Nov '12

I imagine this isn't very difficult to do, but i haven't been able to find it anywhere. I have controller data constantly begin written (and updated) into an array - What is the easiest way to extract the highest and lowest numbers from this array as these two variables change? I'm not looking for something that will constantly be giving me the value of those variables, but, for example, something that gives me the highest value once, and updates that number when it finds a new highest value. Thank you pd-list! -Sebastian

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Rocksmith cable
by Thomas Mayer 07 Nov '12

07 Nov '12

Hi, there is a new musical computer game, Rocksmith. You connect a guitar with 6.3mm jack with an USB port, and then you can play notes that are detected on the computer or console. Has anybody tried that adapter yet (with [hid] or [comport])? Thanks, Thomas -- "Anything can be a tool - poverty, war. War is useful because it is effective in so many areas." (Bijaz to Hayt in: Frank Herbert - Dune Messiah) http://www.residuum.org/

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Pd-list November 2012