Pd-list June 2011

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106 participants
190 discussions

Re: [PD] Pd performance at TED
by Ingo 21 Jun '11

21 Jun '11

Onyx, I really appreciate you chiming in here! I just happened to read your blog after I wrote what I've described to the pd-list what you are doing with your controller. Luckily I was 100% right. I have been thinking about a controller very similar to your's since several years. I know exactly what's going on in your mind. I have already built a sound module which is optimized for wind controllers and I do not see any reason for wind controllers to look like a sax or clarinet. There are many limitations with EWIs and WX5s. It was about time somebody went other ways. And I have to say once more that I really appreciate and like your live playing / looping. Ingo > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Onyx Ashanti [mailto:onyxashanti@gmail.com] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. Juni 2011 12:39 > An: ingo(a)miamiwave.com > Betreff: Re: [PD] Pd performance at TED > > I figured that I would chime in at this point. > > Every single note you hear, is being played, as in one at a time, as a > horn player does, into a looper which I use to layer everything very > quickly into an arrangement then deconstruct and reconstruct on a > musically relevant trajectory. There was nothing pre recorded or > preconceived. Simply a controller, a database of synthesizers and a looper > with effects. I am playing every single solitary note. If that sounds like > it is hard to do, you're right. > > As for not seeing how pd is used in this project, The controller is > merely 3 arduinos, running hans wonderful firmata/pduino software, > connected wirelessly to puredata where I created the wind controller > software and gestural systems. Without pd there is no system. It's all > documented from day one on my blog. No parodies involved. > > I would like an elaboration on how the system is "clunky" if you don't > mind. First off, I feel that it is pretty streamlined for a first > prototype made of cardboard that is only 3 months old. Two wireless hand > units and a mouth unit. If you have suggestions as to how I might improve > it at this stage, before my next stage or dev, I would love to hear it. > @marco, how would you make this concept more "beautiful" or "efficient"? I > am always a willing student in these regards. Do you have any examples of > said efficiency? Being an instructor, I would have expected that you would > have seen the blog link on the Ted profile and researched your position > before simply asserting that my concept has no value. > > @Tyler. You are correct in that I don't care about making it rain granular > algorithms (yet), I want to be able to express myself for fully using > tools available to me. Hans and others were nice enough to help me with > advice and code and it just happened that some people (Ted) other than my > immediate fans found it interesting. Even now, I still busk, but this > opportunity makes it a bit easier to realize some of these larger goals. > > The phone is used as a headup display for making sure all my sensors are > doing what they are supposed to do. > > @richie. I have been a pro in electronic music for 15 years. Google it. > > One thing that I and other alternative controller artists are realizing is > that we must be in the audience. Otherwise people can not see that you are > actually playing. That is why when I play clubs I play from the dance > floor and currently monitor with the club sound system which is hard but > allows a flow of ideas that doesn't come from separating ones self from > the audience. And from there people can see your fingers and gestures > carve the sound. > > This form of performance blends my desire to connect with my space my > music and my movements as intimately but, it should be noted as well, this > is a 3 month old prototype so that people are discussing it and I have > even moved from beta stage yet, is encouraging. > > > If you would like to hear what is possible with this concept, go to > www.onyxashanti.bandcamp.com/album/onyx-Ashanti-full-promotional-package- > download-2 Or feel free to ask me. > > > > > > Www.beatjazz.blogspot.com

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Re: [PD] Pd performance at TED
by Marco Donnarumma 21 Jun '11

21 Jun '11

> > What I have seen on your videos is very good and interesting but has > absolutely nothing to do with jazz - obviously! > Obviously not, I believe the two thing to be not even comparable because deeply different in terms of creative outcome and perspective. > > When playing jazz [snip] In case you are > playing with other people (which is not the case in this particular > performance) you need to be able to react to other musicians by picking up > melodic / rhythmical lines and elaborate on them in the context of the > changes of the harmonic structure and build melodies on the fly that make > musical, expressive and emotional sense. > > This cannot be achieved by triggering patterns! > Thanks Ingo. If that's what he's doing it's a real pity the half of us couldn't get it! I imagine that such interface could have been demonstrated more properly with a trio? In that case the accuracy of each note, etc.. could possibly be more visible. Afaik, you were the only one who previously knew Ashanty work, and the only one who knew what was going on during the performance. > > You're interface might be able to produce great soundscapes but it cannot > get deep enough into the musical microcosms to shape each individual note > within a melodic line where every single note may be only 100 ms long. > Sure. That's because I'm not interested in it, although it could be great. Now you make me wanna try :P > > [snip] This is why people like > Onyx build alternatives. I am experimenting myself with a custom wind > controller that could overcome some of the problems that I am having with > them. > > > Good to know, I never played around with a wind controller... sounds fun. M -- Marco Donnarumma Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer, Instructor ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net Event: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net

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Re: [PD] Pd-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 67
by Marco Donnarumma 21 Jun '11

21 Jun '11

> > > Well, I really don't know why there is a reason fort he audience to know > > what is going on. > > They do not need to know. They want to know. > The performer and audience seek an emotional relationship. > > Maybe Kraftwerk have already answered this, but if at the end of > the TED performance they had revealed that Ashanti was an android > would the audience have been less or more impressed? > > Besides, if the audience doesn't need to know, then why one would play in front of an audience? A violin player is a beautiful thing to see, and even if it's not clear in every minimum detail what he/she's doing, you _perceive_ it. It's a whole world of movement, kinetic energy, sound and other subtlety coming together. A dj dancing to the beat is not that beautiful. > > > > > control, why one uses gestural control at all? > > > > I have explained above what the movement of the body does. > > > Marco's disappointment is understandable (sorry if I > misinterpret this Marco). When I watched "Top of the pops" > as a teenager, like many kids of that age I was outraged > that the performers mimed. Sometimes you could see their > instruments were just props. It is very insulting to someone > who has invested effort and emotion to an activity to see > it trivialised to a banal fashion statement. Like a soldier > seeing their regimental badge worn as a punk accessory. > > Andy, my judgement is surely partial. However, as I stated in another email, I'm more concerned about the bold claims "we make the future", as long as they are backed by something which is not "that" innovative they look incoherent. I guess, I'm being very ingenuous. -- Marco Donnarumma Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer, Instructor ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net Event: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net

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Re: [PD] Pd performance at TED
by Marco Donnarumma 21 Jun '11

21 Jun '11

> I think the "problem" is really a simpler one. It applies to all > kinds of technological music. It is the understanding that the > audience has of the performance. > [snip] It's great how you explain "simple" problems.. thanks :) -- Marco Donnarumma Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer, Instructor ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net Event: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net

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Re: [PD] Pd-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 66
by Marco Donnarumma 21 Jun '11

21 Jun '11

> In TED performance we see how interfaces would be used to interpret > electronic music, unfortunately the player doesn't seem to have a lot of > culture in electronic music, but maybe someone else with a lot more > experience and knowledge would show a performance like great improvisators > we know, I'd love to see how squarepusher would play with this ^ > +1! That would be brilliant. I think a lot of the folks who are disappointed with this being at TED are > frustrated because they are looking at it from an academic standpoint or at > least looking at it as a non-performer. mm, I mostly perform live with Pd. Maybe badly :) but I do. > You have to remember that he is > performing, and on top of that, probably trying to make a living as a > performer. Me too :P and possibly many other people on this list. > For christ's sake his name is Onyx Ashanti and he made a new name > for his music, "beatjazz" =). It's a little over-the-top and mediocre if > you > are expecting some ground-breaking, concept piece or a technical > demonstration of the capabilities of Puredata... but it's not. This guy is > an entertainer who is probably combining his love of electronics with his > love of music... I don't see anything wrong with that. > I agree, but my concerns were motivated by the fact that it's TED (that T standing for Technology), and for the way the work it is presented, claiming boldly that the future is here and beatjazzers make it. Aside from that, everything would look cool and fun. > > Plus... isn't this just an audition? > well, yes, and how many hundreds thousand of viewers does it make? -- Marco Donnarumma Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer, Instructor ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net Event: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net

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loading patches much faster with -realtime
by Matteo Sisti Sette 21 Jun '11

21 Jun '11

Hi, I've found out that Pd takes a lot longer to load big patches when run without the -realtime option (or if you prefer, it is a lot faster in loading patches if run with the -realtime option). "A lot" means an order of magnitude and a half. This is on Linux. Does this happen on Mac too? I guess this is because realtime gives it a higher overall priority, but I wouldn't expect this to affect the loading of patches, would you? I don't know if anything can be done about this, but _if_ it can, I think Pd should try to load a patch as fast as possible regardless of whether it is in realtime mode or not. Couldn't it "acquire" this higher priority (the way it does when launched with -realtime) temporarily before loading a patch and then "release" it? Or is that a static thing that can only be determined at startup? Just some thoughts Cheers m.

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Cannot compile Gem on Linux (Ubuntu)
by Matteo Sisti Sette 21 Jun '11

21 Jun '11

Hi, I'm following the instructions in the README file to compile Gem on Linux. I installed the needed dependencies (hopefully all of them) and I ran autogen and configure without any error message. When it comes to make, I get: videoV4L2.cpp:300: warning: #warning implement fromBGRA videoV4L2.cpp:602: warning: #warning RGB32 vs BGRA confusion videoV4L2.cpp: In member function Â‘virtual int videoV4L2::startTransfer(int)Â’: videoV4L2.cpp:389: error: Â‘fstatÂ’ was not declared in this scope videoV4L2.cpp:394: error: Â‘S_ISCHRÂ’ was not declared in this scope make[1]: *** [videoV4L2.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/media/DATA/downloads/programmi/gem-source/gem-0.92-3/src/Pixes' make: *** [Pixes] Error 2 Any idea? thanks m.

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Re: [PD] Pd performance at TED
by Patrice Colet 21 Jun '11

21 Jun '11

Hello Pedro, J. Coltrane or the bird passed a very long time about learning and experimenting patterns that sounds good all along standards. "Love supreme" is from my point of view like the synthesis of all the knowledge J. C. got from playing in clubs with best jazz players. By analysing his playing I could say that it's just patterns putted together, but they did improvise though. Terry Riley with his "In C" idea just showed how to improvise a structure with a simple concept. The player can decide whenever he play or not, the patterns are evolving according to the sensitivity of musicians. Obviously there can be more complex way of improvising structures, but basicly it's quite the same concept. Why would something more complex would be more pertinent? In TED performance we see how interfaces would be used to interpret electronic music, unfortunately the player doesn't seem to have a lot of culture in electronic music, but maybe someone else with a lot more experience and knowledge would show a performance like great improvisators we know, I'd love to see how squarepusher would play with this ^^ The blank page proposed by matohawk is the kind of stuff that might help pd users to have an approach of improvisating with pure data or max, like it was done in jazz club, but instead of jazz standards the material is rather the objects proposed by those softwares, and certainly all the electronic stuff that has started to emerge since the birth of first synth. This subject is a door opened to a lot of speculating, cheers. ----- "Pedro Oliveira" <hello(a)partidoalto.net> a écrit : > Hi Patrice, > > > I think you didn't get my point... I mentioned Coltrane as an example > of a musician that extrapolated his own instrument from the 12-tone > idea (particularly from A Love Supreme on). > > > However, I think that open musical structures are a more complex > subject to put it into the "improvisation" badge. For instance, if you > take Terry Riley's "In C", to name a well-known piece, its structure > is fairly open, although no player improvises. This is also used in > many musical pieces and it was discussed even by Umberto Eco as open > works ... and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they differ from > improvisation... > > > And again, what "whatever he likes" mean when you're using Pd? If > you're the composer and the performer, you're free to put whatever > pleases you aesthetically but that doesn't consist of improvisation, > as I see. When you design a patch in Pd you don't have all > possibilities in your hands at any given time, and that is why I think > the idea of improvisation is, perhaps, misinterpreted. > > > I'm not postulating an ultimate truth or mentality whatsoever, I'm > just.. speculating. :) > > > Cheers! > > > > > On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Patrice Colet < colet.patrice(a)free.fr > > wrote: > > > If the musical structure you are playing on is opened, > also when the player is free to put whatever he likes, > you can call it an improvisation. > You don't need to be Coltrane to improvise, > what the hell is that mentality???? > > > ----- "Pedro Oliveira" < hello(a)partidoalto.net > a écrit : > > > > > > Jumping on the discussion (not a frequent poster, but I do follow), > I > > must say I agree with Marco... but one question (kinda related, but > at > > the same time isn't): what would consist, then, "improvisation" when > > using Pd? > > > > > > I mean, if you consider free improvisation the only thing I can > think > > of, in five seconds, is "live coding". However, if you think of an > > instrument there are also "pre-given" structures one must follow, > that > > is, pitch range, playability, timbre and so on. Roughly, with > > traditional instruments (from western tradition) you can't go that > far > > away from the 12-tone paradigm (of course, a few exceptions here and > > there with guys like Otomo Yoshihide for the guitar or Coltrane/Evan > > Parker for Saxophone), but then, again... what is true improvisation > > in the context of Pd, Max, whatever? > > > > > > I'm asking because, like I said, I do agree with Marco - recombining > > patterns doesn't consist of improvisation for me as well... and if > > improvisation in that case consists of playing notes over the riffs > > and patterns, why use a gestural controller? Just for the sake of > > technology? > > > > > > Such topic interests me a lot, I'd love to hear your thoughts :) > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Marco Donnarumma < > devel(a)thesaddj.com > > > wrote: > > > > > > Ingo, > > thanks for your explanation, I think to understand how he's playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The movement looks to me secondary - it's more like a dance movement > > and not > > too much music control. > > > > > > > > > > > > This might be a very personal take, but if movement is secondary in > > gestural control, why one uses gestural control at all? > > I believe that effective and ancillary gestures are what reinforce > our > > perception of an instrument as a musical tool, rather than a mere > > "device". > > Imho many gestural controllers would benefit of a better focus on > this > > aspect. > > > > > > How would you play such melodic lines (like those jazz licks) - in > > time - > > simply with gestural control? > > > > > > Setting an array of preset chords, triggering them with multiple > > switches, deploying a timeline which holds the trigger until the > onset > > of the next beat or quarter, etc... > > I guess the list here could come up with many other methods. > > I'm not saying that's trivial, I only think that it's not the > "future" > > as it is presented in the video. > > > > > > How would you improvise on scales, pattern or > > harmonic structures? After all he's a jazz player calling his music > > "beat > > jazz". > > > > > > > > What do you call improvisation in this case? > > How much is he improvising? > > I can imagine he's "improvising" with the melodic lines, but playing > > samples and presets chords doesn't match my own definition of > > improvisation. > > > > > > cheers, > > M > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Marco Donnarumma > > Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer, > > Instructor > > ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) > > The University of Edinburgh, UK > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com > > Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | > > http://www.flxer.net > > Event: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Pedro Oliveira > > www.partidoalto.net > > soundcloud.com/iburiedpaul > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > -- > Patrice Colet > > > > -- > Pedro Oliveira > www.partidoalto.net > soundcloud.com/iburiedpaul -- Patrice Colet

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pd-con 2011: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS
by Moritz Schell 21 Jun '11

21 Jun '11

Dear pd-community, you have the chance to rock the bells of weimar city hall! During the pd-convention from 8.8-14.8.2011 in weimar there will be the possibility for "little evening concerts" on the porcelain carillon in the tower of weimar cityhall. It is a great opportunity to present your compositions/generated music/etc. in public space on an ancient instrument. The city hall faces the market place - a touristic hotspot of weimar. - The concerts will take place every evening during 7p.m and 8p.m. - There will be 5 concerts - one for every evening. The pd-con team will select 5 pieces out of your submissions - The compositions should not take longer than 12 minutes so they'll fit in between the quarter-hour chime - The compositions can be reached in either as a MIDI-file or as a pure-data patch that outputs MIDI-notes (The carillon is MIDI- compatible) For more information visit this wiki-page: http://www.uni-weimar.de/medien/wiki/PDCON:Porcelain_carillon There you'll also find a pure data sample player with the original sound of the bells - so you can test your artwork wherever you are.... Please send your suggestions/concepts/compositions until latest the END OF JULY to: moritz.schell(a)uni-weimar.de looking forward to the results and to see you all in weimar, frederic, max and moritz Moritz Schell MKG, Master Matrikelnr. 100498 Trierer Straße 42 99423 Weimar 0170 - 851 08 87 moritz.schell(a)uni-weimar.de moritzschell(a)gmx.de

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Euclidean Rhythms again...
by Cody Loyd 21 Jun '11

21 Jun '11

A month ago I was on the list asking for assistance with Euclidean Rhythms. I figured it out, and now have this: also a test using TouchOSC on my Ipad :) ENJOY! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFwva0cvr8g

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Pd-list June 2011