Pd-list March 2009

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134 participants
220 discussions

external for sample loop start and end points?
by Ingo Scherzinger 08 Mar '09

08 Mar '09

Hi, I am looking for an external that can read the sample loop start and end points of a .wav file. I found [wavinfo] but that doesn't do the trick - no loop info! It would be great if anybody knew anything like that! Thank you, Ingo

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pd and tcp: what to do against crashes?
by Roman Haefeli 07 Mar '09

07 Mar '09

hi all i've been working now quite some time with setups, where different instances of pd spread over the world are connected with each other over another instance of pd (i.e. serverpatch). i tried different classes for establishing tcp connections between clients and servers, namely [netclient]/[netserver], [tcpclient]/[tcpserver] or a mix of the two. no matter, what configuration is used, server crashes are likely to happen from time to time. the 'server' means here the instance of pd, that is running the patch containing either [tcpserver] or [netserver]. crash means: pd is still running, but not responding. when i start pd with gui for debugging purposes, the gui is also still there, but doesn't respond. when i am testing on my own, running several instance of pd on my local box (or on some more boxes, i have access to), everything runs fine, even under heavy load of data being exchanged between the clients. at most, there are some drop-outs, but never crashes. however, when having a netpd-session with several people connected from everywhere, crashes happen much more often. from my experience, i can tell, that those crashes are more likely to happen, if one or more clients have an unreliable internet connection (or weak wifi signal etc). since tcp is connection-aware - tcp requires connection establishment (handshake) but also connection termination - and some clients just disappear without proper termination, the server still expects them to be there. this is also indicated by the number of connected clients reported by the server: when a client loses connection and then reconnects, the number is higher than the real number of connected clients. if this happens several times, the reported number of connected clients raises, because connections weren't terminated correctly. now, when another client is sending 'broadcast' messages (messages meant to be sent to all connected clients), the server still tries to send the messages to the disappeared clients. another situation: if the client, that disappeared, sent a dump request to another client just before vanishing, the other client will try to send the whole dump to the vanished client. i wonder now, what happens, if all those messages cannot be delivered by the server. i suspect this to be the cause of the crashes. from the pd user side, there seems to be no way to address this issue, since there is no way for the server (i.e. the patch around [netserver]/[tcpserver]) to tell, if a client silently disappeared. so the server will still try to deliver all the messages. i am suspecting, that some buffer overrun occurs here, but i cannot tell really without understanding the code of [netserver] or [tcpserver]. also i don't know, at which level those buffer overruns would happen: somewhere in the external (netserver/tcpserver) code, in the pd code, or even in the kernel/OS? the only thing, that i know, is that i haven't seen apache or some other tcp server crashing because of clients having bad connection. so there must be a solution to this problem, but i don't know where to look for it. another problem is that, from a pd user perspective, one has very little control over the things happening at tcp level. if you need to send a big amount of data, there is no mechanism provided to send the data at maximum available bandwidth. so you either send everything at once, which fills the internal 4kb buffer of [net*] or [tcp*], so that a long drop-out occurs, until the buffer is emptied again. or the data is sent with time intervals between each message in order to artificially reduce the bandwidth used. the latter approach has the disadvantage of not using the whole available bandwidth. also, in userspace you don't see, if a message could be delivered or not, which will, as described in above situations, lead to the situation, that more messages will be sent to a non-existing receiver, which might fill some buffer, which _probaly_ leads to a crash of pd. because above problems, i came to the conclusion, that it is currently not possible to have several instances of pd connected with each other without the system (i.e. one or more instances of pd) crashing from time to time. i know, that pd's main goal is computing audio and not networking, but still it would be a big benefit, if the the audio and networking would reliably work together in pd. currently, i don't know what is the best approach to face those issues: giving more control to the userspace or make the net classes of pd less prone to clients not behaving 'correctly' at tcp level. i do know, that i will not be able to fix those issues myself, therefor i would like see, if more people are interested in helping to work this out. or if people think, that pd is the wrong tool to work with such setups, i would like to know that as well. oops.. sorry for the long post.. roman ___________________________________________________________ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

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[PD-announce] Pd Demo @ Art and Code, CMU, Pittsburgh, PA March 7-9
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 07 Mar '09

07 Mar '09

This is quite last minute, so I am just emailed out about it now. At the Art And Code conference at CMU in Pittsburgh, PA, I'll be giving a talk about Pd on Sunday and a demo/workshop on Monday. You have to be registered for the talk part, but I think that the demo on monday is more or less open. http://artandcode.ning.com/ .hc ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra _______________________________________________ Pd-announce mailing list Pd-announce(a)iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
by David Kirkpatrick 07 Mar '09

07 Mar '09

Hi Jack, I've done a fair bit of this sort of thing before. The most useful setup i've found is: 1) Analogue monochrome CCTV camera. (Preferably with around 700 horizontal lines or so, very low lux, and self syncing) I use these. http://www.allthings.com.au/Catalogue/CCS/monochrome%20low%20light%20cctv%2… You can then buy a C or CS lens that is the right angle for your situation. For roof mounted stuff I use an ultra-wide angle varifocal set to just before it noticably fisheyes. 2) Cat 5 balun connected to CCTV camera's analogue video output and power input. This allows signal to be sent, and power to be recieved via a single cheap UTP Cat 5 lead (i've gone 30 metres with no noticable image quality loss, supposedly you can go much further). Removes the need to run a mains power lead or coax lead to the camera so setup is quick and easy, and reduces time spent dangling from ladders. You can get sets of cat 5 baluns really cheap on ebay. 3) Second cat 5 balun, on the other end of the cat 5 lead, placed next to computer. Connect to a suitable power supply for your video camera, and connect signal to a near zero latency industrial firewire capture device such as a DFG/1394-1e. http://www.theimagingsource.com/en_US/products/converters/dfg13941e/ This allows you to hook up to a to a desktop or laptop, including a mac mini. Then you're done. Just set Pd to listen to the DFG/1394-1e. Image will be clean and roughly equivalent to 720x576 res. This setup can also be modified to work with near infra-red light instead of visible light if you want to avoid detecting lighting changes as movement. Just tape three squares of primary red and congo blue gel in front of the camera lens. Set up a few PAR56s to flood the space with light. Add the same gel to the 56's as you did to the camera and it will block almost all visible light. People will glow bright white when viewed through the camera, but most other stuff in the space will be close to invisible. Alternately, if you want to use a firewire board camera, you can get something like a Lindy CAT5 FireWire Extender. They aren't cheap but they extend the maximum length of a firewire run from around 5m to 70m without quality loss. Regards, David Kirkpatrick _________________________________________________________________ Looking to change your car this year? Find car news, reviews and more http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%…

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[PD-announce] New netlabel GOSUB10 announces the Substrate release!
by propaganda＠goto10.org 06 Mar '09

06 Mar '09

Sorry for autotune, please Spawn Pfunc -- NEW MUSIC COMPILATION, NEW NETLABEL Various Artists - Substrate (GOSUB10-001) -- The new netlabel GOSUB10 today launches Substrate, its inaugural release. A 12-track compilation of music from across the electronic music genre, it features friends and family of the GOTO10 collective, illustrating the strong networks by which the label will grow and providing insight into future directions. /Substrate/ features tracks by: Earweego, krgn, vacca, 0xA, Bazterrak, Frank Barknecht, Yee-King, Soudo, Julian Brook, Martin Howse, Rob Canning and Ultrageranium. Dedicated to innovative music and audio/visuals, the GOSUB10 label will feature an eclectic group of musicians drawn together by their shared use of Free/Libre/Open Source Software (FLOSS). Freely distributed by stream, download and special DVD releases, and made available through an open license, GOSUB10 is run by the GOTO10 collective, an international group of artists, musicians and programmers, dedicated to FLOSS and digital arts. Brought to life in a intensive three day work sprint, the GOSUB10 netlabel is a natural extension of GOTO10's activities supporting and promoting digital art alongside FLOSS tools through workshops, festivals, exhibitions, writing, and more. http://gosub10.org http://goto10.org -- We would like to thank the Institute of Network Cultures (http://networkcultures.org) for hosting us during this sprint and we also want to thank the GISS team (http://giss.tv) who is providing the streaming infrastucture of the GOSUB10 radio. -- :* PS: If you like it, send stroopwafels!!! _______________________________________________ Pd-announce mailing list Pd-announce(a)iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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Re: [PD] list issue
by Matt Barber 06 Mar '09

06 Mar '09

> > Unless you happen to be listening to Carter, Cowell, Ferneyhough, Johnston, Nancarrow, or anyone who has ever happened to use a quintuplet (Chopin, Elvin Jones, maybe Al Pacino in "Heat") > > -Jonathan > Or Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Tchaikovsky Wagner, Mahler, Strauss, Bartok, Schoenberg, Berg, Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Ravel, Debussy, etc., not to mention the more "temporally advanced" folks you mentioned. Plenty of jazz, and decent metal splits beats into fives, and you can't play in a drum corps without perfect subdivision chops... sometimes quintuplets are called "20th notes." But if you want pieces that make heavy use of quintuplets, you would want to check out Carter (start with the string quartets, for instance). Tuplets are often used to allow several people to play music in different tempi while each attending to a "master pulse." I just played a recorder motet where the the low voice was in 3/2, the middle voice in 2/2, and the upper voice in the equivalent of 5/10 time. Or, in Carter, often the old quintuplet becomes the new 16th note and the music proceeds at a faster tempo. There are plenty of composers who do the same simply using time signatures. I've conducted pieces which go fluidly from one meter to the next -- 3/4 5/6 2/4 3/8 31/32 5/4 19/10 etc. It's not that hard once you get the hang of it, but it is hard to get the hang of. I believe that most competent musicians should be able to handle rhythmic notation at least up to subdivisions of 6. Not that they can usually; but I believe it should be the case -- one can practice rhythm anywhere. In addition you can check out Stockhausen, Babbitt, Boulez, Wuorinen, or most anyone who structures rhythm parametrically. (pun) Or, for an extremely rich but different orientation, check out Carnatic (South Indian) classical music -- look up "Korvai" for instance. Matt

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Installing PD...
by Simon Ball 06 Mar '09

06 Mar '09

Hello I'm having trouble getting started with PD-extended. It seems to be having trouble accessing the library, with red dots appearing around objects. I've tried re installing and am on an Intel MacBook Pro, OSX 10.4.11. Any ideas how to solve this? Thanks Simon

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Re: [PD] list issue
by Roman Haefeli 06 Mar '09

06 Mar '09

--- Mathieu Bouchard <matju(a)artengine.ca> schrieb am Fr, 6.3.2009: > > > Unless you happen to be listening to Carter, Cowell, > Ferneyhough, Johnston, Nancarrow, or anyone who has ever > happened to use a quintuplet (Chopin, Elvin Jones, maybe Al > Pacino in "Heat") > > I didn't say that quintuplets don't happen! > > I'd be glad to get references to specific pieces that > contain a lot of quintuplets. Of the five composers you > named, I only heard Nancarrow, I only heard of Nancarrow, > and then, I don't recall any quintuplets in it, but I didn't > see the score and perhaps I couldn't grasp the rhythm of it > just by ear (?). 'the arabian dance' from the nut cracker ballet by tchaikovsky happens to have quintuplets. you can hear the piece here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx8cCLumV10 listen to the lead melody. sometimes it plays some kind of a slow trill (quickly changing between two close notes), which happen to be quintuplets. i admit, that they sound like a duplet followed by a triplet, but i have the scores of the piece and they are written as quintuplets on 32nd's. roman > It reminds me, I once applied in music composition at > UQÀM, but when they sent me a letter telling me they wanted > to test my piano skills with sheet music, I didn't reply, > because I don't have any piano skills and can't read sheet > music in realtime. The only instrument I was really ever > proficient with was ScreamTracker, and boy did I abuse that > thing. I made pieces in 21/8 time and whatnot. I found that > notation much easier to deal with than classical notation... > except for making quintuplets, that is. > > _ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ > _____________________ ... > | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, > Québec > -----Integrierter Anhang folgt----- > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list(a)iem.at > mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >

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list issue
by YOhannes 06 Mar '09

06 Mar '09

hello, ive got some trouble with list handling, maybe somone can give me a hand. i like to group an unnown number of floats in a list. (these floats are the result of different divisors, used all for a fixed value. like 100/16, 100/32...) what i want to do is to put them randomly into the list as long as the sum of all items in the list equals the size of the fixed value. this seems to be pretty difficult...since i use random i cant know what the next float will be. how to handle that? any experience with that issue ? thanks, johannes

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GSoC projects: take a look and improve
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 05 Mar '09

05 Mar '09

Hey all, Georg has been rocking out and put up a bunch of project pages on the Google Summer of Code app, Bryan and I have put up a couple as well. Take a look and improve wherever you think it needs it. It's a wiki so anyone can edit. Here is the list of the current projects for this year's application. Also, if you are a mentor, please take a look at the projects and add your name if there is any possibility that you might want to mentor that project (no commitments yet, that comes later). http://puredata.info/dev/summer-of-code/GoogleSummerOfCodeIdeas2009 And here are all of the pages, in case you want to revive some pages from previous years: http://puredata.info/dev/summer-of-code .hc ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Free software means you control what your computer does. Non-free software means someone else controls that, and to some extent controls you." - Richard M. Stallman

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Pd-list March 2009