Pd-list November 2009

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129 participants
189 discussions

music made with Pd
by Phil Stone 08 May '10

08 May '10

Hi, I'm trying out this website called soundcloud.com, which seems to be a fairly decent way of sharing music without much nonsense. Anyway, I uploaded a recent piece I made (completely with Pd, naturally!): http://soundcloud.com/putahslim/intrinsic Phil

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Pd, Max/Msp, Reaktor, Plogue Bidule... How do these compare?
by Jeffrey Concepcion 23 Mar '10

23 Mar '10

>From an audio processing perspective... My first introduction to a visual programming environment was Reaktor, then Max, then Pd. Only recently did i find out about plogue bidule. As far as interface goes they seem quite similar, and one obviously must consider that the commercial products have customer support rather than the community effort that is PD (which is great, don't get me wrong) and the "user friendliness" approach they must have in order to appeal to users. As far as i know, reaktor and plogue bidule have VST capabilities, i believe the last i read about the [vst] object in Pd was that is was generally defective (can anyone confirm or correct this?). Max seems to be the largest and most complex of all (The creators of the Monome <http://monome.org/> and OHM64 <http://www.lividinstruments.com/hardware_ohm64.php> both designed their product with max, although i'm sure it could have been with Pd just the same). correct me if i'm wrong, but i understand that pd and max are the most powerful, although i've yet to build anything that sounds as good as what i was able to make in reaktor, and i have no idea about the sound quality that can be achieved with plogue bidule. your thoughts? jeff -- www.avmachinists.org Puerto Rico based Art Collective/ Non-Profit Org

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Re: [PD] Pd, Max/Msp, Reaktor, Plogue Bidule... How do these compare?
by Alexandre Porres 17 Mar '10

17 Mar '10

hi, Here are MY thoughts: As a composer attending composition courses in brazilian universities I was presented with the idea that MAX was "professional" and "stable. and pd "experimental" and "unstable". Another given point is that MAX had some wonderful capabilities that Pd might never, giving the sense that you can only do some sorts of thing in MAX. But that is some load of BS in my opinion (I know you didn't see that coming... shocking, huh?). when it came for me to decide which to study and where to implement my research. It felt logical to go for a free environment, meaning that I'd be able to show results and present knowledge in a free way, and one wouldn't need to buy a software to able to check my study. But this seems more of an issue here in Brazil, as in some places people don't bother with the cash issue, and got MAX everywhere. But in Brazil, most MAX users go for the pirate version, and if you hope for stability, what is the point in that? The CA$H issue is greatly pertinent in this discussion, but it gets deeper than that. The way I see it, and you have put it in your email, is that Pd and MAX are in fact more powerful, and you need quite a knowledge to be able to design stuff. Reaktor and Bidule are easier for that matter. So my point is, it is too important that you really know what you are doing. You need to study DSP for christ's sake, know exactly how FFT works, or even Wavelets! You also need to really work hard and practice it as an instrument to be able to develop patching techniques in Pd or MAX. They are great "Do it yourself" environments, and now I ask, what is the point of spending a lot here? It seems reasonable for me to pay for other people to do the work for you. If this was cooking, I would pay for a chef to cook for me, and not spend a lot to make the meal myself... At least here in Brazil, I haven't seen people doing great and highly sophisticated MAX patches that would justify it being a more powerful tool. And i dont really use it to know myself whatever there is to it besides the friendlier interface and customer support. And i haven't had trouble not being able to use Pd in my Computer Music projects. I also have the idea that Pd is simpler and more straight to the point, and that MAX is heavier to run and has all sorts of gadgets that are there more to justify the investment, but that end up making it more confusing for me. It gets to a point where is rather paradoxal to me, you have a do it yourself environment trying to be an end-user end oriented tool. Now, Reaktor and Bidule are not that powerful and more straightforward into some direction. This makes them more specific tools and easier to use, and I see now the point of paying for those. they are more headed torwards end-users, and they are kind of cooking for them. Another issue comes to aesthetics. Being a free software community, stuff made in Pd or by Pd people tends to be more anarchic and somewhat standard-free. MAX, on the other hand, seems to be highly inserted into this really specialized niche of the traditional Computer Music environment. After all, it is something that comes from IRCAM, so it is natural that the aesthetic of MAX users usually tend to look as something related to IRCAM's school, and that kind of standard. But then, being a composer dealing with computer music is hard because you need to be both a composer and a computer science guy. The way around is making partnerships, and people in IRCAM actually do partnerships. So, if you are a composer, you need to compose and that is it... you give the computer stuff to a computer guy and let him bother with it in the way he wants. Philippe Manoury is a composer that was there when MAX came out, and his pieces are classic MAX computer music pieces from the 80's. Now the same pieces are being done in Pd. You ask, did Philippe change from MAX to Pd? No, not at all. He was working with Miller Puckette in the 80's in IRCAM, and keeps working with Miller to this date in San diego. He is just the composer, and Miller is the computer guy... Miller wrote MAX in the 80's, but now uses Pd which he also wrote himself. Well, thanks for your attention on my thoughts, see you next time. Cheers Alex

5 4

midiout / sysex on windows
by kristof lauwers 04 Mar '10

04 Mar '10

hello, I was wondering what the current state of midiout is on windows (i'm working on Xp, but should make something that works under any recent windows version) I see some discussion about it in the list archives and forum, but it's not clear if it should be working or not right now.. I tried it on vanilla PD 0.42.5 and in extended 0.4.3. It seems in vanilla it does nothing at all. In extended it's sending out something, but not what i expect.. (sometimes the 3 bytes i try to send each padded by 2 or 3 0's, sometimes nothing at all..) Also, it's not very clear what kind of input midiout expects - the documentation doesn't say anything about that.. i'd guess a list with first status byte and then the data bytes? if it's not working (yet), are there any alternatives to send sysexes from Pd? thanks, Kristof

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Re: [PD] [PD-dev] CUDA discussion
by Charles Henry 24 Feb '10

24 Feb '10

>> b) how to do it right. > > I did have an idea that went something like this: > > 1. write ugens in Faust, compile them into dsp objects, link, load > 2. write a transaction-based patcher environment (or dataflow language) > wherein transactions (such as multiple object creation deletion connection > etc) can be committed atomically (with OSC-style bundle time tags etc) > 3. translate the generated networks of dsp objects back to Faust code > 4. compile that Faust code into a new dsp object, link, load, run > 5. rinse, repeat > > So, an OpenCL backend (instead of C++ backend) for Faust is the missing > link... > > > Claude > -- > http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org > Okay, you've gone way beyond my area of knowledge already :) OpenCL sounds cool. I hadn't seen that one yet. The development platform with Faust is completely foreign to me--I don't think I can reply back to you with anything good. Probably, if we come up with anything in the way of top-down design, we should be able to apply the same framework to different platforms and make comparisons. Chuck

2 3

Re: [PD] pd~ for Max
by marius schebella 21 Feb '10

21 Feb '10

okayyyyyyyyy! so what I have to do is: start the help patch with max4, then open Options - DSP Status (If I try to open the panel later, I get an error saying error: Bad file descriptor) then I had to replace the opendialog with a simple message starting with "/Users/marius...", as opposed to what I got before "mac_hd:/Users/marius...". and then I clicked on this message, pd would start up and spit out a message with a lot of zeros. and then I start sound as you said from the DSP Status window. hmmm... actually trying the whole thing again, it now works by just starting pd with the pddir message and the start message and *then* clicking on ;dsp start. but only once, I cannot stop pd and start it again, that brings me into freeze mode again.. ah, it works if I turn off dsp in max before stopping pd, and then start it again, and then turn on dsp again. marius. 2009/9/1 Miller Puckette <mpuckett(a)imusic1.ucsd.edu>: > No, I mean the Max thing... I don't have Max here, but maybe it's called > "DSP preferences"? > > cheers > M > On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 06:07:35PM +0200, marius schebella wrote: >> hi, >> thanks miller, are you talking about the pd audio settings? cause the >> dialog won't open up either, everything is frozen. >> with physically going in and out, you mean connecting a cable to the >> mini jack of your macbook(pro)?? should I also say a small prayer? or >> use my little max voodoo doll. >> no, seriously, I could still not get it running, sorry. >> do I need jack for this to work? >> best, marius. >> >> 2009/9/1 Miller Puckette <mpuckett(a)imusic1.ucsd.edu>: >> > Hi Marius, >> > >> > For Max 4, that's the symptom I got -- even after hitting the "max DSP 1" >> > button on the patch -- until I went into the audio settings panel and actually >> > got sound running in and out of hardware. ?For me at least, the Max scheduler >> > apparently didn't even run the DSP objects unless audio was physically going >> > in and out. >> > >> > For Max5, the API is supposedly unchanged (except, as Thomas Grill mentioned, >> > GUI stuff that pd~ doesn't use). ?However, the scheduler or audio I/O >> > systems might be different for example -- so this is probably going to take >> > some fooling around to debug. >> > >> > cheers >> > Miller >> > >> > On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 09:40:09AM +0200, marius schebella wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I tried to run pd~ on max4 and max5, but no luck either. with max4 i can >> >> create a pd~ object with inlets and outlets, and when I start pd, the pd >> >> window starts up, but nothing else happens. max freezes, I guess trying >> >> to open the pd~-subprocess.pd patch? >> >> on max5 the situation is exactly the same as fred-ordi described, an >> >> object box without in and outlets (although in the help-patch there >> >> *are* ins and outs), and with a message in the max window saying pd~ >> >> version 0.2. but clicking on start pd~... does nothing. >> >> tried different settings for the directory, too, no change. >> >> I used 0.42.5. and 10.5.8. >> >> I can try to compile pd~ for 10.5 later today. is there someone who has >> >> pd~ running on osx? which versions of max and pd are you using? >> >> marius. >> >> >> >> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: >> >> > >> >> >It probably needs to be compiled for Max5. ?Anyone with Max5 want to >> >> >give it a shot? >> >> > >> >> >.hc >> >> > >> >> >On Aug 31, 2009, at 3:43 AM, fred-ordi wrote: >> >> > >> >> >>yes, here same with Pd-0.42-5 and Max5 on OSX 10.5.8, not yet succeed in: >> >> >>Max window tells nothing about something wrong ("pd~ version 0.2" >> >> >>printed to Max window when instantiated) but the pd~ object in >> >> >>pd~.help patcher appears with a dark foreground colorlike if the >> >> >>external is wrong... >> >> >> >> >> >>Cheers, >> >> >>Fred >> >> >> >> >> >>Miller Puckette wrote: >> >> >>>Oh... good idea (I have only Max 4; my OS is too old to upgrade to 5) >> >> >>>thanks >> >> >>>M >> >> >>>On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 08:32:27PM +0200, Max wrote: >> >> >>>>pd~ for max does not even launch Pd here. >> >> >>>>DSP is on. >> >> >>>>Is there anybody else on the Pd-list who has Max5 installed on OS X >> >> >>>>who could try this out? >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>thx, Max >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>Am 28.08.2009 um 19:54 schrieb Miller Puckette: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>I had the same problem for a while... for pd~ to work not only do >> >> >>>>>you have to >> >> >>>>>start "dsp" in the help window but you also have to have audio >> >> >>>>>going ?in and >> >> >>>>>out of Max. ?Otherwise Pd start up but does nothing. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>cheers >> >> >>>>>M >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 04:47:11PM +0200, Max wrote: >> >> >>>>>>I'm having trouble getting it to run - there is no INSTALL >> >> >>>>>>instructions, but i guess >> >> >>>>>>pd~.mxo lives in /Applications/Max5/Cycling\ '74/msp-externals/ >> >> >>>>>>and pd~.help lives in /Applications/Max5/Cycling\ '74/msp-help/ >> >> >>>>>>allthough the other files are called .maxhelp, not .help >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>i restarted Max and created a pd~ Object, it has no in or outlets but >> >> >>>>>>i can open the Help from there, switch Audio on and Select the >> >> >>>>>>Pd-0.42-5.app but nothing happens. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>what am i doing wrong? >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Am 28.08.2009 um 05:35 schrieb Miller Puckette: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>Oops, sorry about that... I reorganized some stuff and that fell >> >> >>>>>>>through a crack. ?It's back up on: >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/software.html >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>cheers >> >> >>>>>>>Miller >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 03:21:57AM +0200, Max wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>Hi List, >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>i've been asked by students where to download the starter drug ?pd~ >> >> >>>>>>>>for Max? and i could not find it myself - i thought it is >> >> >>>>>>>>available? >> >> >>>>>>>>It's neither here: >> >> >>>>>>>>http://crca.ucsd.edu/~tapel/software.html >> >> >>>>>>>>nor >> >> >>>>>>>>http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/software.html >> >> >>>>>>>>and here neither: >> >> >>>>>>>>http://www.maxobjects.com/?v=authors&initiale=M >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>max >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >> >> >>>>>>Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >> >> >>>>>>UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> >> >>>>>>http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >> >> >>>Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >> >> >>>UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> >> >>>http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >> >>Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >> >> >>UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> >> >>http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for >> >> >machines to execute. >> >> > - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >> >> >UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> >> >http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> > >

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pd-gui-rewrite testing
by Rich E 22 Jan '10

22 Jan '10

Hi List, Hans, I've been using the pd-gui-rewrite-0.43 svn for a couple days now and here are some notes I've taken when finding various bugs (is the better sent to the pd-dev list?): • In Audio Settings, the text in the drop down menus is hardly visible because it is very light grey • there is a new menu item called 'apple' with "about pd" and preferences" • editing an object name: ‣ moving with arrows adds a space to the end, but does not move within the object name • opening "about pd" gives an error: ‣ Error: can't read "pd_myversion": no such variable" ‣ an't read "pd_myversion": no such variable can't read "pd_myversion": no such variable while executing "regsub -all PD_VERSION $bigstring2 $pd_myversion bigstring3" (procedure "::pd_menucommands::menu_opentext" line 15) invoked from within "::pd_menucommands::menu_opentext "$dirname/$basename"" (".txt" arm line 1) invoked from within "switch -- [string tolower [file extension $basename]] { ".txt" {::pd_menucommands::menu_opentext "$dirname/$basename" } ".c" {::..." (procedure "menu_doc_open" line 4) invoked from within "menu_doc_open doc/1.manual 1.introduction.txt" (menu invoke) I have some time on my hands now that I finished my Master's, and frankly I think the pd-vanilla GUI is unpleasant, so I could learn tcl/tk and help out, if needed. rich

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debugging Graph-On-Parent
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 18 Jan '10

18 Jan '10

Hey all, Since talking with Ico, Luke, Ed, and others it seems to me that fully debugging the GOP GUI stuff should be a big priority for the 0.42.5 release of Pd-extended. This would also fit in well with the wrapping up of pd-gui-rewrite. So for all you deep into GUIs with Pd, please report bugs and make example patches so we can get to the bottom of this. Ico's is a good example: .hc ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is publicity. - Bill Moyers

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pd lcd display wavetable?
by tdrecordable 26 Dec '09

26 Dec '09

hey all Anyone know where i could start looking if i wanted to dump a wave table to be seen on a onto small lcd display. eg http://www.spikenzielabs.com/SpikenzieLabs/LCD_How_To.html i'm a total noob at electronics but interested in figuring it out. t

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Re: [PD] Finding "$0" and dealing with it in messages
by Matt Barber 15 Dec '09

15 Dec '09

If you're interested, there was a huge thread about this in February, starting about here: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2009-02/067889.html It continues, too -- it will look like the thread "dies out," but if you look later in that month there will be many more posts with the same subject. Matt > yep, sure, it works, but, anyway, I just think it would be easier for some > operations if we could use "$0" in messages, that's all... > > Thanks > > Cheers > > Alex

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Pd-list November 2009