Pd-list July 2008

pd-list@lists.iem.at

111 participants
206 discussions

[PD-announce] some works done with pd
by cyrille henry 30 Jul '08

30 Jul '08

hello, for those which are interested, here is some work that i recently made with pd/Gem : http://drpichon.free.fr/ch/article.php?id_article=88 http://drpichon.free.fr/ch/article.php?id_article=80 http://drpichon.free.fr/ch/article.php?id_article=76 http://drpichon.free.fr/ch/article.php?id_article=95 http://drpichon.free.fr/ch/article.php?id_article=94 http://drpichon.free.fr/ch/article.php?id_article=89 Cyrille _______________________________________________ Pd-announce mailing list Pd-announce(a)iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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Pd-0.41-4 can't extract
by Enrique Erne 30 Jul '08

30 Jul '08

pd-0.41-4.mac.tar.gz from http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/software.html i get Could not extract the file "Pd-0.41-4.app/Contents": Could not create the folder this is on i386 osx 10.5.4 the file is 5.5MB does anybody else have the same error? eni

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call for 10gig+ disks for build farm
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 30 Jul '08

30 Jul '08

So the disk just died in the Windows XP build server. All the rest of the disks are quite old. I would like to replace the Windows XP build server and add disk mirroring on as many of the servers as possible. So, if anyone has any _working_ disks 10 gigs or bigger that are just sitting around taking up space, please send them my way to support the Pd auto-build farm. Then you'll get a lovely mention on the PdLab page and the undying gratitude of the community. http://puredata.info/docs/developer/PdLab .hc ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- 'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2", by Mohja Kahf

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Re: [PD] Idiomatic Pd
by Matt Barber 29 Jul '08

29 Jul '08

> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:02:05 -0400 > From: marius schebella <marius.schebella(a)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [PD] Idiomatic Pd > To: pd-list(a)iem.at > Message-ID: <488F22DD.6060505(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I am quite pedantic in regard to spacing and aligning of objects. I > started to space all objects using ctrl+arrow keys. that way all objects > are spaced like on a grid and always a multiple of 10px away of each other. > I don't know if that should go into a style guide, but for "official" > patches like tutorials it could be considered. Yes, I am this way too -- but with font sizes sometimes being different from one platform to the next, and even between extended and vanilla, it's really hard to ensure that things will line up sweetly every time you open it, everywhere. > If I work on big patches that run as installations (no interface) the > parent patch is basically empty, it only shows piece information and > credits, everything is in a subpatch called [MACHINE]. and that usually > is more a visual representation of the space (according to positioning > of sensors/speakers) or a basic overview of the patch structure with an > short explanation of what the different subpatches are doing. > even, if everybody says, pd patches are their own documentation, because > everything is visible, that's not true, commenting should be an > important part of patching (cyclone's comment allow differnt fonts, > sizes, colors and width of comments). This is a good point. In fact, for some patches e.g. for interactive pieces to be sent to musicians who don't do Pd for a living -- =o) -- I prefer to put everything in a subpatch which has a GOP control surface. I think it's productive to petition against the "spider web" style, but even too many objects and connections on the main patch seems wasteful somehow. It's nice to include a subpatch which can be opened with a bng, that is basically a readme. I do this for abstractions, too, but without the bng -- just something to describe how it works inside the patch itself, I suppose as a quick substitute for a help file. Most of this is really personal, though, and I don't think it should be codified. > then, for patches that rely on abstractions, *maybe* it would be good to > give them either unique names or put them into subfolders. (I have to > say, I do not really stick with this rule. but at least one thing: the > main patch should always be recognizable, I usually put it in capital > letters, so that people know, which patch to start. > > resources (images, textfiles, data) could be kept in a subfolder, too. > (just think of the GEM examples, how often one of the images or videos > can not be found. - at least in the past). Abstractions, whenever possible I think, should try not to conflict with names in extended, even when the patch is designed for vanilla. Also, I think it's helpful to include tilde in abstraction names when audio signals are involved. When 0.39 begins to wane (so [declare] can be used), it might be productive to keep abstractions in subfolders, and possibly control in one and tilde in another. Same, as you suggest, with textfiles, qlists, images, and soundfiles. This way the main patch is there cleanly for anyone who might need to use the patch besides you, and especially nice for musicians. Again, not essential, but ergonomic. Matt

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Re: [PD] Idiomatic Pd
by Matt Barber 29 Jul '08

29 Jul '08

Luke, I like some of your ideas, but I'd offer the following: >>> Style: >>> * If giving $0 as an argument to an abstraction, it is always first in >>> the argument list [1] >> >> I often put it last (and it's specified to be that way e.g. in >> Memento) > My reasoning here is that $0 is probably the most common thing to pass > to an abstraction, but abstractions have varying numbers of arguments, > so $0 will sometimes be $3, sometimes $2, sometimes $7, and that > swings my brain around. Putting it in the first slot means that $1 > gains a sort of second meaning as "my parent's $0", which I think is > handy. Why should we assume anything about an abstraction's parent? It seems to me a lot has to be assumed about the general purpose of abstractions for one to say that a child's $1 should usually be the parent's $0... I tend not to hierarchize my abstractions to quite this extent, and prefer to allow abstractions to be relatively agnostic about their surroundings when possible. There's one style of patching which suggests that abstractions should operate as closely as possible to built-in objects, which (in vanilla at least) are usually also basically unaware of their surroundings (save for [block~] and other canvas-local settings, or send-receive type bindings, which granted depend a lot upon $0 but not usually explicitly as a single argument passed to objects)... Though, I suppose I agree that when $0 *does* need to be passed, it could go first. I can think of many situations where it would want to go last, though -- for instance an abstraction which takes mandatory arguments and optional arguments, of which one of the latter is a number to prepend to a symbol to designate, say, the send symbol of a group of instances within a parent abstraction which might be used e.g. for error cleanup, and which otherwise should be set to that instance's (not the parent's) $0 when not in the presence of a parent that knows what to do with the error message (so it isn't sent anywhere at all). A related topic is: in general, if there's an adequate solution with an abstraction, should one use it rather than an external? Does this change in pedagogical situations where a student might profit in learning from a rather sparse set of unit generators? Does this change when performance is required above all? etc. etc. Another related topic -- for GOP abstractions, is it bad form to cover the abstraction name and arguments with a canvas? What if these things are printed as labels on canvases? >>> * When prepending $0 to a symbol, only add a "-" to separate it from >>> another number, like [r $0-1stSend]. Otherwise the symbol should >>> immediately follow, like [r $0mySend]. >> >> I always seperate $0 with a $0-dash. $0myGod is easy to misunderstand. >> > That's all cool, and I think you are in the majority on that. I think > I just took camelCase because it reminded me of Smalltalk and Cocoa, > which remind me of Pd : ). Smalltalk and Cocoa remind me more of supercollider (y/n?), which isn't a bad thing at all. Still, I prefer the hyphen after $0 in general, as it can apply to all cases. As an aside, I also prefer $0 at the beginning of a symbol whenever possible to ensure backwards compatibility with <0.40 -- and a [makefilename %d] trick with $0 to allow things like pd-$0-edge_of_now (I suppose I prefer underscores to camelCase... meh - I'm not sure this is vital to "proper" patching, but it does remind me of the C-style the objects themselves are written in). >>> * When working with stereo, Left and Right pairs are written with Le >>> and Ri appended (to distinguish them from an R denoting "receive", >>> above) I think it's better to remain completely neutral with regard to the numbering of channels. Stereo should not stand out as a preferred case... many other more general nomenclatures could apply, e.g. ch1 ch2 ch3 ch4 (or ch0 ch1, etc. for channel array lovers), or just the numbers, or something else. This might allow code from a stereo garden to be plucked and implemented in a multichannel space in the future, with little worry. Also, actual pairing of loudspeaker to channel number should not, in general, be codified. There are too many "standard" and acceptable configurations by now to anoint some over others. I guess I second Frank's suggestion and say let's see what patching styles abound and let people be creative -- but when there's codification, let it be generalizable to as many situations as possible. Thanks for the great suggestion about a style guide, though -- it would be especially helpful to newcomers and students. Things like "decouple number boxes and bangs used for debugging from the workings of the patch" I feel are almost essential examples of efficient and "proper" pd patching. And early, strong, and repetitive grounding in [trigger]. Matt

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Re: [PD] quick start
by Bruce LANE 29 Jul '08

29 Jul '08

Hi Enrique, We are a band, all members will have audio and/or midi information when they play music on stage. This information will be routed to a server which will trigger visuals according to what they play. The visuals could be pd visuals or onyx-vj visuals with midi2 (for which I have been developping flash swf plugins) There is also an infographist with a wacom tablet drawing live... And all that should be helped by a linux sequencer or not if mp3cast~ meets my needs as the name says! May be that's too complicated, but I like the idea of mixing software development, visuals and music! Thanks Bruce 2008/7/29 Enrique Erne <enrique(a)netpd.org> > so you already have the latest nightlybuild, excellent! > have a look at [notein], [netreceive], [netsend] and [mp3cast~] > what are you planing to do? > > > > batchass wrote: > >> Hi Enrique, >> I have Pd version 0.42.0-extended-20080726, should I uninstall it and >> install Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc4? >> An idea on how I can transmit midi and audio via a tcpip lan? >> >> Thanks >> Bruce >> http://www.mySpace.com/Batchass >> >> >> Le lundi 28 juillet 2008 à 14:44 -0400, Enrique Erne a écrit : >> >>> hi Bruce >>> >>> netpd http://www.netpd.org/software/netpd.tar.gz >>> is a pd project and should work with Pd-vanilla and Pd-extended as long >>> as you have the right externals installed. >>> >>> some of our users are not into puredata so we have packages for osx and >>> windows containing Pd-vanilla with the right externals. >>> >>> i suggest you to use Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc4 from >>> http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html since it contains probably >>> everything you need. >>> >>> good luck >>> eni >>> >>> >>> Bruce LANE wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I have been playing with pd for 2 days on ubuntu-studio, and some things >>>> are >>>> not clear in my mind: >>>> To install the pd-extended package, ubuntu-studio's pd needed to be >>>> removed. >>>> The same is happening when I try to install net-pd >>>> - what is the difference between netpd, pd-extended, and ubuntu-studio's >>>> pd? >>>> - why do we have to deal with several pd software? >>>> >>>> I need pmpd, gem, networking several pcs to communicate midi notes and >>>> controllers, etc, so any hint to quick start? >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Batchass >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>> >>> >> >> >

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Re: [PD] How do I do this (clean looping)?!
by Ed Kelly 29 Jul '08

29 Jul '08

Difficult! You can try using zeroxpos~ to find out where the zero-crossings are relative to the pd dsp block start, but you need to know where it is in relation to the start of the array. Perhaps I need to write another external to give a sample accurate "where in the block is the initial bang" reading. Perhaps someone has done it already? Then you could use bang~ to count the blocks, zeroxpos~ to measure the offset within a block, and another external to find the inital offset from the start of the block when the recording began. But, although zero-crossings will take away non-zero-crossing based clicks, the instantaneous burst of energy caused by a discontinuity in the energy of the sound will still give you an audible "jump" in the sound. Some windowing is your best option, probably... By the way, adjust your computer clock! Apparently the PD list received your email on the 4th of September 2008! Already...unless you have developed a ~~ object...Jules Verne? Truly Quantum! Best, Ed Lone Shark "Aviation" out now on http://www.pyramidtransmissions.com http://www.myspace.com/sharktracks ----- Original Message ---- From: David Schaffer <schafferdavid(a)hotmail.com> To: pd list <pd-list(a)iem.at> Sent: Thursday, 4 September, 2008 9:47:11 AM Subject: [PD] How do I do this (clean looping)?! Hi, I'm building a little time domain abstraction that captures audio from an input and writes it on the fly to an array, this array is then beeing red continuously as a loop (as a result, the incoming sound seems to "freeze", see what I mean?). my problem is avoiding clicks at both ends of the loop; right now, I'm trying to use time based triggers to create a "windowing" function so that the amplitude of the loop is zero at both ends, butI was wondering if there was a way to tell pd to start and stop it's recording process at zero crossing points, or to truncate its reading points a bit so that the beginnig and the end of the loop are zero. Can anyone help me in this?! Thanks a lot!! D.S http://www.flickr.com/photos/schafferdavid/ http://audioblog.arteradio.com/David_Schaffer/ __________________________________________________________ Not happy with your email address?. Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html

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Re: [PD] Pd crashes when editing properties of number2 box label ending in '%'
by Ed Kelly 29 Jul '08

29 Jul '08

Right! In Pd-extended-0.39-3 I found this. The Hsliders would revert to the default when their label was changed with a message. My pdp_freeframe abstraction is enclosed. To test this, load the abstraction and save it again. When you load it the second time, sliders will be white, 128 long etc. Don't know why! Ps, hello again. Ed ----- Original Message ---- From: Frank Barknecht <fbar(a)footils.org> To: pd-list(a)iem.at Sent: Monday, 28 July, 2008 11:00:18 PM Subject: Re: [PD] Pd crashes when editing properties of number2 box label ending in '%' Hallo, Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote: > In a number2 atom, when a label ending with '%' (or '%_', as well) is > used, right-clicking on the number2 box and selecting "Properties" will > cause PD to crash. > > I filed a bug report: > > http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2030557&group_id=5… > > > This is happening on Pd version 0.40.3-extended-20080724, and also on > 0.40.3-extended-20080603, though it may go back much further. I don't > have any older versions handy to test. Pd 0.41 doesn't crash, but produces this instead of opening the Properties dialog: wrong # args: should be "pdtk_iemgui_dialog id mainheader dim_header wdt min_wdt wdt_label hgt min_hgt hgt_label rng_header min_rng min_rng_label max_rng max_rng_label rng_sched lin0_log1 lilo0_label lilo1_label loadbang steady num_label num snd rcv gui_name gn_dx gn_dy gn_f gn_fs bcol fcol lcol" vslider acts the same but interestingly hslider is not affected! Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__ _______________________________________________ Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list __________________________________________________________ Not happy with your email address?. Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html

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Pd crashes when editing properties of number2 box label ending in '%'
by Phil Stone 29 Jul '08

29 Jul '08

In a number2 atom, when a label ending with '%' (or '%_', as well) is used, right-clicking on the number2 box and selecting "Properties" will cause PD to crash. I filed a bug report: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2030557&group_id=5… This is happening on Pd version 0.40.3-extended-20080724, and also on 0.40.3-extended-20080603, though it may go back much further. I don't have any older versions handy to test. I'm running Intel OS X 10.4.11. Phil Stone pkstonemusic.com

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quick start
by Bruce LANE 28 Jul '08

28 Jul '08

Hello, I have been playing with pd for 2 days on ubuntu-studio, and some things are not clear in my mind: To install the pd-extended package, ubuntu-studio's pd needed to be removed. The same is happening when I try to install net-pd - what is the difference between netpd, pd-extended, and ubuntu-studio's pd? - why do we have to deal with several pd software? I need pmpd, gem, networking several pcs to communicate midi notes and controllers, etc, so any hint to quick start? Thanks Batchass

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Pd-list July 2008