Pd-list March 2008

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jö [OT] (was: Re: parallel processing
by marius schebella 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

> fgmadsrÃ¶ > IOhannes typo, or what, going creative? "Ã¶"????

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Wii remote controller and MAC O SX
by Simon Kilshaw 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

I've been using DarwiimoteOSC talking to OSC in PD. If you prefer midi, WiiToMidi works a treat. Kilshaw~ -----Original Message----- From: pd-list-bounces(a)iem.at on behalf of pd-list-request(a)iem.at Sent: Tue 3/4/2008 7:24 PM To: pd-list(a)iem.at Subject: PD-list Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16 Send PD-list mailing list submissions to pd-list(a)iem.at To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pd-list-request(a)iem.at You can reach the person managing the list at pd-list-owner(a)iem.at When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of PD-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Wii remote controller and Mac OS X (nils) 2. Re: parallel processing (IOhannes m zmoelnig) 3. Re: Wii remote controller and Mac OS X (Yvan Vander Sanden) 4. Pd performance practice (Oded Ben-Tal) 5. Re: parallel processing (Martin Peach) 6. Re: parallel processing (Martin Peach) 7. Re: parallel processing (Brandon Zeeb) 8. Re: parallel processing (marius schebella) 9. Re: Improved bug report: [expr] on Windows 2000 (XP non-professional) (Miller Puckette) 10. Re: parallel processing (Claude Heiland-Allen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 11:07:30 -0700 From: nils <nils(a)c60.ca> Subject: Re: [PD] Wii remote controller and Mac OS X To: pd-list(a)iem.at Message-ID: <47CD8FE2.4050909(a)c60.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed This seems like it could be promising http://www.osculator.net/wiki/ Not an external for pd, but does send over osc so could use the osc libraries in pd to digest. I havnt' tried it yet so let me know if you get it to work. Nils Stefano Papetti wrote: > Hello everybody, > > when I last checked the mailing list (about 1 year ago...) I remember > there was a wiiremote external by Hans-Christoph Steiner. However at > that time I couldn't get it to work. > Currently, the latest revision from sourceforge > (http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data/trunk/externals/io/wi…) > seems to be broken (I got it from the logs). > I'm looking for an external allowing to interface a Wii remote > controller with pd under Mac OS X (Intel). Is there any reliable way to > do that? > > Thanks, > Stefano > > > _______________________________________________ > PD-list(a)iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:14:59 +0100 From: IOhannes m zmoelnig <zmoelnig(a)iem.at> Subject: Re: [PD] parallel processing To: Martin Peach <martin.peach(a)sympatico.ca> Cc: pd-list(a)iem.at, marius.schebella(a)gmail.com Message-ID: <47CD91A3.3070904(a)iem.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Martin Peach wrote: >> IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: >> marius schebella wrote: >>> pd is only using one of 2, 4 or 8. is that what your question was? >>> marius. >> well, it uses 2, as Pd is really 2 applications (pd-gui and pd-core); >> not big gains however, due to the bad separation between pd-gui and >> pd-core. >> > > And if an external starts its own thread will it run on another core? Does in theory yes. > any OS allow a programmer to control which processor the code runs on? e.g. linux? sched_setaffinity pthread_setaffinity_np (NPTL-pthreads) and i just found a linux-journal article: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6799 fgmasdr. IOhannes ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:12:05 +0100 From: Yvan Vander Sanden <yvan(a)youngmusic.org> Subject: Re: [PD] Wii remote controller and Mac OS X To: pd-list(a)iem.at Message-ID: <20080304191205.pj7wertxmosc4gw4(a)www.sanctamaria-aarschot.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Quoting Stefano Papetti <papetti(a)sci.univr.it>: > Hello everybody, > > when I last checked the mailing list (about 1 year ago...) I remember > there was a wiiremote external by Hans-Christoph Steiner. However at > that time I couldn't get it to work. > Currently, the latest revision from sourceforge > (http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data/trunk/externals/io/wi…) > seems to be broken (I got it from the logs). > I'm looking for an external allowing to interface a Wii remote > controller with pd under Mac OS X (Intel). Is there any reliable way to > do that? I have written a wiimote external for linux. Of course the easiest thing (and probably best too) is to use an existing library that supports the wiimote on your platform. I don't have a Mac, so I can't help you with that. But starting from that library, it cannot be very hard. You should be able to use my external as a starting point and rewrite the parts that need the wii library on your platform. If you do, it would be nice to keep in touch. It would be nice if the PD interface works the same way on both platforms. BTW. I'll put a 0.2 version of my library online next week. I'll have concert with some wii's at the end of the week and found a bit of room for improvement. Regards, yvan ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:52:56 -0800 (PST) From: Oded Ben-Tal <oded(a)ccrma.Stanford.EDU> Subject: [PD] Pd performance practice To: pd-list(a)iem.at Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0803041043010.5559(a)ccrma-gate.stanford.edu> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Dear all, A while ago I was trying to find 'good houskeeping tips' for using Pd in performance and couldn't find any (what to avoid, how to organize patches, etc.). does anyone know of something like this? If not where would be a good place to put such a resource? I presume that the collective (good as well as bad) experience could provide a useful resource for starting to use Pd in performance. -- ___________________________________________________ Oded Ben-Tal http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~oded oded(a)ccrma.stanford.edu ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:10:29 +0000 From: "Martin Peach" <martin.peach(a)sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: [PD] parallel processing To: zmoelnig(a)iem.at, pd-list(a)iem.at, marius.schebella(a)gmail.com Message-ID: <BAY113-F39D51299C8B2E4ADB58279ED100(a)phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >sched_setaffinity >pthread_setaffinity_np (NPTL-pthreads) > >and i just found a linux-journal article: >http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6799 > OK, thanks. Here's one about the MS version: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms684251(VS.85).aspx It mentions the function SetThreadAffinityMask(). Martin ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:18:29 +0000 From: "Martin Peach" <martin.peach(a)sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: [PD] parallel processing To: zmoelnig(a)iem.at, pd-list(a)iem.at, marius.schebella(a)gmail.com Message-ID: <BAY113-F409554EA88E226A0A8E330ED100(a)phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed But on the Mac, it's not so hopeful: "Mac OS X does not export interfaces that identify processors or control thread placement-explicit thread to processor binding is not supported. Instead, the kernel manages all thread placement. Applications expect that the scheduler will, under most circumstances, run its threads using a good processor placement with respect to cache affinity." (http://developer.apple.com/releasenotes/Performance/RN-AffinityAPI/) Martin ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:21:33 -0500 From: Brandon Zeeb <bsoisoi(a)mac.com> Subject: Re: [PD] parallel processing To: marius schebella <marius.schebella(a)gmail.com> Cc: "pd-list(a)iem.at Pure Data" <pd-list(a)iem.at>, andreeprefontaine(a)gmail.com Message-ID: <1BAB0DA4-D202-433E-82D9-038FA76EEFA5(a)mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes More specifically, my question is: How does PD's performance scale when the number of available processing units increases from 2 to 4 and to 8 cores? Is the main engine written in such a way as to take advantage of this, or is it primarily a single-threaded? Possible scenarios could be: 1. I have a patch with 8 very intense sub patches. Do all of these sub-patches run on the same core or are they spread out across available processors? 2. Assume I have an 8 CPU system (dual quad opterons etc). I have 8 patches open within one Pd instance, do all 8 patches run on the same core or 2, or do they spread out across all the available 8 cores? Besides running multiple copies of Pd, how does Pd scale on many-cpu systems? Cheers, ~Brandon On Mar 4, 2008, at 11:53 AM, marius schebella wrote: > pd is only using one of 2, 4 or 8. is that what your question was? > marius. > > bsoisoi wrote: >> Along with the question posed by Marius, how does PD currently >> scale on SMP systems with 2, 4, or 8 cores? >> Cheers, >> ~Brandon >> On Mar 4, 2008, at 11:39 AM, marius schebella wrote: >>> No, I missed LAC, but it is not surprising that people research in >>> that >>> direction. I was looking through some papers yesterday, but not >>> the one >>> from j?rgen, will catch up on that. >>> marius. >>> >>> Andr?e Pr?fontaine wrote: >>>> >>>> Le 08-03-04 ? 11:14, marius schebella a ?crit : >>>> >>>>> hi, >>>>> I am reading an old interview with james moorer (with curtis >>>>> roads in >>>>> CMJ/6 1982). one funny thing is that he says, 'software >>>>> synthesis is >>>>> either dead or dying[...] I am hoping it's demise will be quick >>>>> and >>>>> relatively painless.' >>>>> in return he predicted all computation being done on special dsp >>>>> chips. >>>>> in part he was right, but on the other hand the main cpu got >>>>> more than >>>>> fast enough to survive (gfx is slightly different), but - and I am >>>>> coming to my point - he also was thinking about hundreds or >>>>> thousands of >>>>> parallel processing elements. right now, we are going to have >>>>> several >>>>> and in the future many many parallel CPUs, and the need for >>>>> parallel >>>>> processing is back. miller was talking about that in montreal. >>>>> so I wonder how pd will survive that evolution? afaik the current >>>>> situation is poor in this regard. can anyone give an outview for >>>>> the >>>>> future? would it be a jump from pd (I) 0.43 to pd II 0.1? >>>>> marius. >>>> >>>> Where you at Lac 2008? because J?rgen Reuter gave a lecture on >>>> the topic >>>> with who you are interested. >>>> I do wonder too in this regard and where very interested in his >>>> presentation : exploiting multi-core architectures for fast modular >>>> synthesis >>>> >>>> Andr?e >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> PD-list(a)iem.at mailing list >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> PD-list(a)iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:26:47 -0500 From: marius schebella <marius.schebella(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: [PD] parallel processing To: Martin Peach <martin.peach(a)sympatico.ca> Cc: pd-list(a)iem.at, zmoelnig(a)iem.at Message-ID: <47CDA277.6010102(a)gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed isn't the problem of pd right now, that the audio chain can't be chopped into different threads? if the pd audio chain would support threads for every object, would it be as easy as to add a (or some) line(s) of code for every dsp object? is it correct that some soundcards compute part of the audio chain on the soundchip? which parts? I only ask out of interest, I would not be able to implement any of the solutions :(, so feel free to ignore the questions, if you think this is more a developer discussion and to much theoretical right now... marius. Martin Peach wrote: >> sched_setaffinity >> pthread_setaffinity_np (NPTL-pthreads) >> >> and i just found a linux-journal article: >> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6799 >> > > OK, thanks. Here's one about the MS version: > http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms684251(VS.85).aspx > > It mentions the function SetThreadAffinityMask(). > > > > Martin > > > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:34:06 -0800 From: Miller Puckette <mpuckett(a)imusic1.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: [PD] Improved bug report: [expr] on Windows 2000 (XP non-professional) To: Patrice Colet <pat(a)mamalala.org> Cc: pd-list(a)iem.at, "David F. Place" <d(a)vidplace.com> Message-ID: <20080304193406.GA15084(a)imusic1.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I haven't been able to figure out how to make windows-style makefiles call each other, so I have a batch file, 'build' that I call from the source directory, to call the other makefiles in other directories. (Of course, I haven't even tried again since 1999 or so to figure this out and it's probably easy now!) cheers Miller On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 12:39:32AM +0100, Patrice Colet wrote: > Okay, it's definitively a bug, the makefile.nt in pd-0.41-2 doesn't > build externals at all, so if it's not corrected, the bug will stay in > further versions. Also, I'm sure it's possible to use Makefile.in, for > all platforms. > > > David F. Place a ?crit : > > > > On Mar 2, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Patrice Colet wrote: > > > >> Hello, did you check if the expr.dll is present in extra folder? > > > > expr.dll is not present in the extra folder. In fact, there are no .dll > > files in the extra folder. > > > >> > > > > ___________________ > > (---o-------o-o-o---o-o-o----( > > David F. Place > > mailto:d@vidplace.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PD-list(a)iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:38:44 +0000 From: Claude Heiland-Allen <claudiusmaximus(a)goto10.org> Subject: Re: [PD] parallel processing To: Brandon Zeeb <bsoisoi(a)mac.com> Cc: "pd-list(a)iem.at Pure Data" <pd-list(a)iem.at>, andreeprefontaine(a)gmail.com, marius schebella <marius.schebella(a)gmail.com> Message-ID: <47CDA544.7020508(a)goto10.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Brandon Zeeb wrote: > More specifically, my question is: > > How does PD's performance scale when the number of available > processing units increases from 2 to 4 and to 8 cores? Is the main > engine written in such a way as to take advantage of this, or is it > primarily a single-threaded? Pd's engine is a single thread, it will use at most 100% of *one* core. Pd's gui is a single thread, it will use at most 100% of *one* core. The communication between engine <--> gui is suboptimal, which might limit things, but unlikely. > Besides running multiple copies of Pd, how does Pd scale on many-cpu > systems? It doesn't. Claude -- http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ PD-list mailing list PD-list(a)iem.at to manage your subscription (including un-subscription) see http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list End of PD-list Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16 *************************************** Royal Welsh College of Music & Drama Castle Grounds Cathays Park Cardiff CF10 3ER Royal Welsh College of Music & Drama Ltd A subsidiary of the University of Glamorgan Company registration 6013744, registered in England and Wales This e-mail is intended for the above named only, and may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance upon the e-mail is prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact postmaster(a)rwcmd.ac.uk, quoting your name and the name of the sender, then delete the e-mail from your system. 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parallel processing
by marius schebella 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

hi, I am reading an old interview with james moorer (with curtis roads in CMJ/6 1982). one funny thing is that he says, 'software synthesis is either dead or dying[...] I am hoping it's demise will be quick and relatively painless.' in return he predicted all computation being done on special dsp chips. in part he was right, but on the other hand the main cpu got more than fast enough to survive (gfx is slightly different), but - and I am coming to my point - he also was thinking about hundreds or thousands of parallel processing elements. right now, we are going to have several and in the future many many parallel CPUs, and the need for parallel processing is back. miller was talking about that in montreal. so I wonder how pd will survive that evolution? afaik the current situation is poor in this regard. can anyone give an outview for the future? would it be a jump from pd (I) 0.43 to pd II 0.1? marius.

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LAC2008 in German radio
by Frank Barknecht 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

Hi, just discovered two pieces that were broadcasted about the LAC2008 on "Deutschlandfunk": "Linux Audio Conference" Sendezeit: 03.03.2008 15:11 Autor: Steins, Hubert Programm: Deutschlandfunk Sendung: Corso LÃ€nge: 05:17 Minuten http://ondemand-mp3.dradio.de/file/dradio/2008/03/03/dlf_20080303_1511_78d4… TUX macht die Musik "Linux Audio Conference 2008" in KÃ¶ln prÃ€sentiert Musikproduktion mit Linux Von Thomas Reintjes http://www.dradio.de/dlf/sendungen/computer/747434/ (txt) http://ondemand-mp3.dradio.de/file/dradio/2008/03/01/dlf_20080301_1645_4f8e… All in German only. If you find more media or blog coverage of LAC2008, please send them to lac(a)linuxaudio.org for collecting on the site. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__

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invisible py/pyext objects in windows XP (again)
by matteo sisti sette 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

Hi, I downloaded the latest version of pyext precompiled for windows XP from http://grrrr.org/ext/py/ and python 2.4.4 from its official site. Installed everything, and when I open any of the example patches, py objects are invisible, just as in the screenshot from an old post in the archives: http://132.205.142.12/screenshot.PNG If I don't set the -path option correctly so he cannot find the scripts, then the objects are visible (but obviously won't work). I found many threads about this in the archives, but no solution (apart maybe recompiling something). Windows XP, PD Vanilla 0.41.2 Is there any fix? Thanks m. -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistisette(a)gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com

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Fwd: Simple tutorial on using Lua with PD
by Mike McGonagle 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mike McGonagle <mjmogo(a)gmail.com> Date: Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [PD] Simple tutorial on using Lua with PD To: Claude Heiland-Allen <claudiusmaximus(a)goto10.org> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:37 PM, Claude Heiland-Allen < claudiusmaximus(a)goto10.org> wrote: > Mike McGonagle wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > Over the weekend, I was trying to figure out how Lua works with PD. > > While I have everything installed from the extended stuff, I still can't > > quite figure out where to begin. > > The examples should be clear enough I hope, if you have any specific > questions about a specific example then please ask :-) Well, I guess what is troubling me is that we I try to run the "lua-help.pd", and click on the [load hello( message, it produces the following: error: lua: error in dispatcher: [string "pd.lua"]:226: attempt to index local 'atoms' (a nil value) And then I tried the "luax-help.pd" file, and everything appears to work fine. I guess my troubles seem to stem from "where should everything go, and what is the difference between 'lua' and 'luax'"? > > > Is there some sort of README, or something, that explains how to work > > with "pdlua"? I did try to run the help file that is in the > > distribution, but when I clicked on the [load hello( message, it > > complained about not being able to find some 'atom'. > > That bug is already fixed in my SVN repository, thanks to robc for > spotting it (iirc): > > svn co https://devel.goto10.org/svn/maximus/pdlua pdlua So, is your SVN different from the one that Pure Data is using? I downloaded the latest version this morning at about 11:30am Central time. > > Best place to start is reading through the examples, but there is some > documentation too, and also the source code for details. Could you explain some things about how Lua uses the search paths? And where we should be putting our files? Also, is there some documentation about what things are provided by 'pd.lua'? Or is all that stuff just what is needed to get things loaded and running (ie, no user accessible methods). > > > I don't use pd-extended so I don't know how much of pdlua is included, > also it would be nice for pd-extended to use svn:external or whatever > the mechanism is for tracking other repositories, maybe the stable > releases could use my stable releases and maybe the autobuilds could use > the development svn version. Any links to where I can get your latest? Mike -- Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. —Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician

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Pd-0.41-2.msw.exe is missing [expr]
by David F. Place 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

It occurred to me that installing pd on my Windows XP professional computer may be working by accident. I installed it over an earlier version of Pd, so it might be using the earlier version of the [expr] library. Deleting my pd directory and reinstalling proved my conjecture. Bug: If you install Pd-0.41-2.msw.exe on a fresh computer, it does not work. It's missing [expr]. ___________________ (---o-------o-o-o---o-o-o----( David F. Place mailto:d@vidplace.com

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pd-ext paths, libs and help
by marius schebella 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

hi hans, there are a lot of objects in pdxt that will not load by default, because the libraries are not loaded in the beginning and there is no path. I thought the idea of pdxt is that all objects are loadable. I understand that there are some name conflicts, but right now, I would say 50% of the externals are not loading. neither do many help-files. I wonder if you want to fix this, and if yes, if you need help with it. or does it use to much memory, if all externals are loaded? and also, where should I post changes to help files, or new help files? to the list? to you? marius.

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question(wavs and effected samples)...
by Steve Arnett 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

so my main daw is ableton live 5 on a mac g4...sooo i was wondering if there was a way possible to output pure data 'performances' to wav files (or aiff) and also if there was a way to sort of use pure data extended as an 'effects pedal' in a sense with distortions and weird effects and such to effect samples. i guess i'm wondering what is the easiest way to load in samples into pure data to mess them up and then load the end product into ableton...i know this is a pretty broad question but any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated...thanks. steve. _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

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Simple tutorial on using Lua with PD
by Mike McGonagle 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

Hello all, Over the weekend, I was trying to figure out how Lua works with PD. While I have everything installed from the extended stuff, I still can't quite figure out where to begin. Is there some sort of README, or something, that explains how to work with "pdlua"? I did try to run the help file that is in the distribution, but when I clicked on the [load hello( message, it complained about not being able to find some 'atom'. Thanks, Mike -- Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. —Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician

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Pd-list March 2008