Pd-list December 2008

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112 participants
182 discussions

API for manipulating a patch in real time
by Zach Dwiel 14 Dec '08

14 Dec '08

Hello Pleas forgive me if this is already answered somewhere, but with the keywords I was using, I couldn't find anything. What I would like to do is manipulate a patch running in pd through an API in some other programming language. I know that I can send data to an existing patch from other languages through osc, midi, custom externals, etc. What I would like to be able to script is the manipulation of the actual patch. ie: add an osciliator and wire it up to this output. remove the connection between these two object, etc. I know that I could output programatically generated .pd files and then load those in, but this does not allow for real time editing of those patches. Is there a standard way of doing this? Has anyone tried it? thanks! zach dwiel

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Re: [PD] remote SL users..?
by Rich E 12 Dec '08

12 Dec '08

Oops, forgot to cc the list: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Rich E <reakinator(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I looked at it a while back and noticed it is closed source and not > compiled in linux. So, not me :( Once again, open source users loose > out. > > The rep I talked to pointed me towards the API for sending sysex > messages in order to change the lcd displays via automap. I didn't > think it was worth the time or hassle as sending sysex messages in pd > is a pain (off topic - anyone know a good way to do this in python?). > > regards, > Rich > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 4:55 AM, Luke Iannini <lukexipd(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Yo Dudez >> Dunno when it happened, but it's up here: >> >> http://developer.novationmusic.com/doku.php?id=automapsdk >> >> Looks like they cleared it out immediately after posting it, for >> unspecified reasons : ) But, the link still works. Who's ready to >> make a Pd External? :D >> >> (direct link: http://developer.novationmusic.com/lib/exe/fetch.php?id=automapsdk&cache=ca…) >> >> Best >> Luke >> >> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Luke Iannini <lukexipd(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Yo, >>> I have also been bugging them : ). I got an email from them two days >>> ago that has a nice development: >>> ---------------- >>> Hello Luke, >>> >>> Automap SDK is still work in progress and I'm not able to say exactly >>> when we will be able to officially release this. >>> >>> However we do have the documentation ready. It's available here: >>> >>> http://focusrite.com/developer/doku.php >>> >>> You can click on the RSS feed to get notification once the SDK is ready. >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Oliver B >>> ----------------- >>> >>> Cheers >>> Luke >>> >>> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 6:19 AM, Damian Stewart <damian(a)frey.co.nz> wrote: >>>> Rich E wrote: >>>>> Any word back on the Novation SDK? Although I just came across your >>>>> email, I have also talked to the Novation support about this SDK, and >>>>> about writing an external for pd that uses it. But, as far as I know... >>>>> they never released this SDK, and that was months ago. >>>>> >>>>> I'll send Novation another email as well.. >>>> >>>> i sent them one on the 2nd of May and got this in reply. basically, it's on >>>> their todo list, but at a low priority: >>>> >>>> Hi Damian, >>>> >>>> The SDK is scheduled amongst a huge list of other features which due to be >>>> release. As you can appreciate, our software developers have priorities >>>> (such the recent Automap 2 and Nocturn, as well as other ongoing >>>> developments) and I cannot commit our developers to an exact date. However >>>> I am positive that it will be release at some point. So please check back >>>> on our website in the future. >>>> >>>> Thank you in advance for your understanding. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Andy Leung >>>> Novation Support >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> PD-list(a)iem.at mailing list >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>> >>> >> >

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Re: [PD] Percolate for Pd
by Collin 12 Dec '08

12 Dec '08

Hi Mitchell, list, I also compiled percolate on my Mac today, and it was a lovely experience. One thing I did differently, that some people may find useful: Rather than removing the windows section from the makefile, I specified Mac like this: $ make pd_darwin btw, I looked at your website, and you have some lovely things there. You should credit your performers, though; your cellist is very fine! Collin

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Re: [PD] Percolate for Pd
by Mitchell Turner 12 Dec '08

12 Dec '08

John, I was able to get Percolate working on a MacBookPro running OS 10.5.5 and Pd-Extended 0.40.3. The way I was able to do this involved compiling from source. The required a few steps outlined below. I'm not absolutely sure my changes are the best way to do things. But it worked so I guess its an ok way to do it. 1) I got the latest version of the Developers Tools (the ones for OS10.5). Then I downloaded the source version of PeRColate discussed here (I had to login in order to see the attachments): http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-619-port-percolate Now I had to edit the Makefile that came in the PeRColate_source folder. (I've pasted in the Makefile below.) 2) I made changes to the "current" line, so that it read "current: pd_darwin". 3) I removed all of the lines dealing with Windows (might be an unnecessary step). 4) Down in the MAC OS X section, I changed the "PD=" line to point to my version of pd. PD = /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd 5) I also changed "MACOSXINCLUDE" line to point to the include folder inside my version of Pd-Extended. MACOSXINCLUDE = -I _headers -I /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/ Resources/include/ 6) Now in Terminal, I "cd"ed over to the "PeRColate_source" directory and ran the "make" command. It compiled just fine (after multiple attempts and much editing of the Makefile). 7) Now I opened the Pd-Extended application (CTRL-Click and select "open package contents"). 8) I placed the entire PeRColate folder inside the "extras" and copied the percolate.pd_darwin file to: Pd-extended/Contents/Resources/extra/ copied the PeRColate_help into: Pd-extended/Contents/Resources/doc/5.reference/ I opened Pd-Extended application and set the library to load on start up. Pd-extended>Preferences>Startup I re-started Pd and all was well. Hope this helps out, Mitch Here is the Makefile I ended up with: #Begin_Makefile--------- NAME=percolate CSYM=percolate current: pd_darwin # ----------------------- LINUX i386 ----------------------- pd_linux: $(NAME).pd_linux .SUFFIXES: .pd_linux PATH1=1.\ Physical\ Models PATH2=2.\ Modal\ Synthesis PATH3=3.\ PhISM PATH4=4.\ MaxGens PATH5=5.\ SID PATH6=6.\ Random\ DSP LINUX_SOURCES = percolate.c \ _source/stk.c \ $(PATH1)/blotar/blotar~.c \ $(PATH1)/bowed/bowed~.c \ $(PATH1)/bowed\ bar/bowedbar~.c \ $(PATH1)/brass/brass~.c \ $(PATH1)/clarinet/clar~.c \ $(PATH1)/flute/flute~.c \ $(PATH1)/mandolin/mandolin~.c \ $(PATH1)/plucked/plucked~.c \ $(PATH2)/agogo/agogo~.c \ $(PATH2)/marimba/marimba~.c \ $(PATH2)/vibraphone/vibraphone~.c \ $(PATH3)/bamboo/bamboo~.c \ $(PATH3)/cabasa/cabasa~.c \ $(PATH3)/meta-shaker/metashake~.c \ $(PATH3)/sekere/sekere~.c \ $(PATH3)/sleigh\ bells/sleigh~.c \ $(PATH3)/shaker/shaker~.c \ $(PATH3)/guiro/guiro~.c \ $(PATH3)/tamb/tamb~.c \ $(PATH3)/wuter/wuter~.c \ $(PATH4)/gen10/gen10.c \ $(PATH4)/gen17/gen17.c \ $(PATH4)/gen20/gen20.c \ $(PATH4)/gen24/gen24.c \ $(PATH4)/gen25/gen25.c \ $(PATH4)/gen5/gen5.c \ $(PATH4)/gen7/gen7.c \ $(PATH4)/gen9/gen9.c \ $(PATH5)/absmax~/absmax~.c \ $(PATH5)/absmin~/absmin~.c \ $(PATH5)/chase~/chase~.c \ $(PATH5)/escal~/escalator~.c \ $(PATH5)/flip~/flip~.c \ $(PATH5)/jitter~/jitter~.c \ $(PATH5)/klutz~/klutz~.c \ $(PATH5)/random~/random~.c \ $(PATH5)/terrain~/terrain~.c \ $(PATH5)/waffle~/waffle~.c \ $(PATH5)/weave~/weave~.c \ $(PATH6)/dcblock/dcblock~.c \ $(PATH6)/gQ/gQ~.c \ $(PATH6)/munger/munger~.c \ $(PATH6)/scrubber/scrub~.c LINUX_OBJECTS = $(LINUX_SOURCES:.c=.o) LINUX_OBJECTS2 = percolate.o \ _source/stk.o \ $(PATH1)/blotar/blotar~.o \ $(PATH1)/bowed/bowed~.o \ $(PATH1)/bowed\ bar/bowedbar~.o \ $(PATH1)/brass/brass~.o \ $(PATH1)/clarinet/clar~.o \ $(PATH1)/flute/flute~.o \ $(PATH1)/mandolin/mandolin~.o \ $(PATH1)/plucked/plucked~.o \ $(PATH2)/agogo/agogo~.o \ $(PATH2)/marimba/marimba~.o \ $(PATH2)/vibraphone/vibraphone~.o \ $(PATH3)/bamboo/bamboo~.o \ $(PATH3)/cabasa/cabasa~.o \ $(PATH3)/meta-shaker/metashake~.o \ $(PATH3)/sekere/sekere~.o \ $(PATH3)/shaker/shaker~.o \ $(PATH3)/guiro/guiro~.o \ $(PATH3)/sleigh\ bells/sleigh~.o \ $(PATH3)/tamb/tamb~.o \ $(PATH3)/wuter/wuter~.o \ $(PATH4)/gen10/gen10.o \ $(PATH4)/gen17/gen17.o \ $(PATH4)/gen20/gen20.o \ $(PATH4)/gen24/gen24.o \ $(PATH4)/gen25/gen25.o \ $(PATH4)/gen5/gen5.o \ $(PATH4)/gen7/gen7.o \ $(PATH4)/gen9/gen9.o \ $(PATH5)/absmax~/absmax~.o \ $(PATH5)/absmin~/absmin~.o \ $(PATH5)/chase~/chase~.o \ $(PATH5)/escal~/escalator~.o \ $(PATH5)/flip~/flip~.o \ $(PATH5)/jitter~/jitter~.o \ $(PATH5)/klutz~/klutz~.o \ $(PATH5)/random~/random~.o \ $(PATH5)/terrain~/terrain~.o \ $(PATH5)/waffle~/waffle~.o \ $(PATH5)/weave~/weave~.o \ $(PATH6)/dcblock/dcblock~.o \ $(PATH6)/gQ/gQ~.o \ $(PATH6)/munger/munger~.o \ $(PATH6)/scrubber/scrub~.o LINUXCFLAGS = -DPD -DUNIX -DICECAST -O2 -funroll-loops -fomit-frame- pointer \ -Wall -W -Wshadow -Wstrict-prototypes -Werror \ -Wno-unused -Wno-parentheses -Wno-switch LINUXINCLUDE = -I _headers -I ../../pd/pd-0.36-test5/src/ .c.o: cc $(LINUXCFLAGS) $(LINUXINCLUDE) -o "$*.o" -c "$*.c" $(NAME).pd_linux: $(LINUX_OBJECTS) ld -export_dynamic -shared -o $*.pd_linux $(LINUX_OBJECTS2) -lc -lm strip --strip-unneeded $*.pd_linux rm -f $*.o ../$*.pd_linux ln -s $*/$*.pd_linux .. clean_linux: find -name "*.o" -exec rm \{\} \; rm *.pd_* # ----------------------- MAC OS X ----------------------- pd_darwin: $(NAME).pd_darwin .SUFFIXES: .pd_darwin .pd_darwin_o MACOSXCFLAGS = -DPD -DUNIX -DMACOSX -O3 \ -Wall -W -Wstrict-prototypes \ -Wno-unused -Wno-parentheses -Wno-switch PD = /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd MACOSXLDFLAGS = -bundle -bundle_loader $(PD) -flat_namespace MACOSXINCLUDE = -I _headers -I /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/ Resources/include/ MACOSX_OBJECTS = $(LINUX_SOURCES:.c=.pd_darwin_o) MACOSX_OBJECTS2 = $(LINUX_OBJECTS2:.o=.pd_darwin_o) .c.pd_darwin_o: cc $(MACOSXCFLAGS) $(MACOSXINCLUDE) -o "$*.pd_darwin_o" -c "$*.c" $(NAME).pd_darwin: $(MACOSX_OBJECTS) cc $(MACOSXLDFLAGS) -o $*.pd_darwin $(MACOSX_OBJECTS2) -lc -lm rm -f $*.o ../$*.pd_darwin ln -s $*/$*.pd_darwin .. clean_darwin: find . -name "*.pd_darwin_o" -exec rm \{\} \; rm *.pd_* #------------End_Makefile On Dec 11, 2008, at 5:40 PM, John Harrison wrote: > cool! Could you send your changes to the Makefile to the list so we > have it for reference the next time this comes up? > > Mitchell Turner wrote: >> >> Yeah, I tried that binary, but I think it was for PPC. When I >> tried to use it, I'd get a complaint about the wrong architecture. >> >> So, I got the source, modified the Makefile, and compiled it >> myself. Couple of missteps later it works. >> Mitch >> >> >> On Dec 11, 2008, at 4:53 PM, John Harrison wrote: >> >>> cool. I don't know if you saw on the list somebody provided a link >>> to an OSX binary as well. >>> >>> Good luck! >>> >>> -John >>> >>> Mitchell Turner wrote: >>>> >>>> I've gotten it to compile and it is now working. Thanks for your >>>> help. >>>> Mitch >>>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:05 AM, John Harrison wrote: >>>> >>>>> sorry I never compiled it at all. I know it's SUPPOSED to >>>>> compile in OS X, as of 5 years ago or something... >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Mitchell Turner <mmturner(a)mindspring.com >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> John, >>>>> Thanks so much for the link. You say you don't use it but have >>>>> you compiled it for OSX? It appears the makefile will work for >>>>> OSX. >>>>> Mitch >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 11, 2008, at 9:02 AM, John Harrison wrote: >>>>> >>>>> you can find source here: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.cs.tcd.ie/~wardn1/PD_workshop/07.installation_files/01.sources/ >>>>> >>>>> there's legal issues and apparently personal ones too, so it has >>>>> been officially removed. If you succeed in getting it, it will >>>>> have to be "under the table." >>>>> >>>>> That's all I know. I've never used Percolate myself. >>>>> >>>>> -John >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mitchell Turner wrote: >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseam, but I've googled >>>>> everything I can think of and have not been able to find >>>>> Percolate for Pd. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone know if there is a working version of the Percolate >>>>> objects for Pd? I'm using Pd-Extended (0.40.3) on OSX (10.5.5). >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance, >>>>> Mitch >>>>> >>>>> http://home.lagrange.edu/mturner/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John Harrison >>>>> http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~harrison >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> John Harrison >>> http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~harrison >>> >>> >> > > -- > John Harrison > http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~harrison >

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Re: [PD] nearest power of 2
by Matt Barber 11 Dec '08

11 Dec '08

This might be silly, but here are three abstractions I made a couple years or so when I was learning... the "nearest" one defaults to the higher value for numbers halfway between. Matt > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:48:48 +0900 > From: "hard off" <hard.off(a)gmail.com> > Subject: [PD] nearest power of 2 > To: "Pd List" <pd-list(a)iem.kug.ac.at> > Message-ID: > <161320dd0812110748w620d032g7b9bdff22d2f4fe7(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > what's the easiest way for pd to find the nearest power of 2 for any float? > > > so 10 would give a result of 8, > 53 would give a result of 64, > > etc.. > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_two#Algorithm_to_convert_any_number_i… >

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[PD-announce] [Pdmtl] pdmtl#29 le 2008.12.13
by Mathieu Bouchard 11 Dec '08

11 Dec '08

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:10:04 -0500 (EST) From: Mathieu Bouchard <matju(a)artengine.ca> To: pdmtl(a)artengine.ca Subject: [Pdmtl] pdmtl#29 le 2008.12.13 PureData Montréal #29 le samedi 13 décembre 2008 de 13H00 à 17H00 à Vidéographe Ouvert à tous et à toutes. Entrée libre. Programme: Alexandre Quessy présente Ambisonic (PdMtlAbstractions) Ambisonic est une partie de la librairie PdMtlAbstractions conçue pour pour la spatialisation sonore en 2D ou 3D. Contenu de la présentation: * Présentations des patches Ambisonic qui font partie de la librairie PdMtlAbstractions. * Discussions autour du format de représentation spatiale du son en 3D Ambisonic. Depuis peu, je travaille sur des abstractions pour manipuler le format B Ambisonic. Elles sont disponibles sous la catégorie "ambi.*" dans la librairie PdMtlAbstractions. Il ne s'agit que des premiers balbutiements, mais je souhaite les présenter afin d'intéresser d'éventuels utilisateurs ou développeurs. Quelques liens: * Le groupe PdMtl : http://wiki.dataflow.ws/PdMtl * Les patches PdMtlAbstractions : http://wiki.dataflow.ws/PdMtlAbstractions * Les patches ambi.* : http://wiki.dataflow.ws/PdMtlAbstractions/Ambisonic * Et la liste de discussion Ambisonic Montréal : http://wiki.dataflow.ws/Ambisonic Michal Seta présente RjDj RjDj est une application pour le iPhone (et bientôt le iPod Touch) pour distribuer de la musique réactive, interactive, des jeux audio etc. par l'entremise de ce smart-phone populaire. Les "scènes" distribuées avec RjDj sont programmées avec Pure data. Les programmeurs de scènes RjDj ont accès à l'entrée micro de iPhone ainsi que les données d'accéléromètre intégré et ainsi peuvent créer des environnements sonores liées directement aux actions des utilisateurs. Je vais vous montrer l'application RjDj sur iPhone avec certaines scènes et je vais donner un aperçu de mes expériences acquises lors du dernier "sprint" RjDj auquel j'ai participé à Vancouver. Distribution d'affiches et flyers de MakeArt Thomas Vriet a envoyé à Montréal, de la part de GOTO10, quelques affiches et flyers de MakeArt, qui seront distribués à PdMtl#29 aux personnes présentes. _ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec _______________________________________________ Pd-announce mailing list Pd-announce(a)iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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Re: [PD] Open Lab at the 11th Cairo Bienale
by ydegoyon 11 Dec '08

11 Dec '08

hi, thanks for these contacts, of course, we are invited by Roman, the one that throws parties... err, no, it's for working... another interesting fact is that my friend Dirar Kalash, from palestina will come to join us and play in the final event : 27/12/08 20h Final presentation of the winterLab featuring the participants + D.R.E.G.S / Diego el de Leon / Praxis / Atari Noise Orchestra cool, i won't be bored for xmas saludos, sevy Greg Pond wrote: > Yves, > > I dont know if you have been to Cairo or not so I dont know if my > message will be useful to you but I volunteer it anyway. > > Cairo is a great and very interesting city. Much happened while I was > there that left strong impressions- but as for exhibiting: > > I was there working for the Ministry of Culture for a media arts > exhibition at the Palace of Fine Arts last year. I found that > electronic media can present some challenges in Egypt. There were not > many (any) people working in the Fine Arts Sector there with > experience to handle work using max, PD, really anything other than > dvd. I was only showing videos and jurying part of the exhibition but > had to help with some installations too. Many of the people who work > there were, however, eager to learn more and maybe things have > changed. > > Nagla Samir is really excellent to work with and very helpful, if you > have not been corresponding with her, she works for the Sector of Fine > Arts > > Greg Niemeyer form UC Berkley here in the USA did some interesting > work through the Whitehouse gallery in Cairo- whitehouse may be > interesting for you > http://studio.berkeley.edu/niemeyer/art.html > http://www.gregniemeyer.com/ > > if Ursula Bachman, a Swiss artist who may still be living there, is > around she can show show you parts of the city that are more > interesting than what the ministry of culture will. > > Roman, the Spanish cultural counsel in Cairo is an interesting man- > very charming and has some interesting stories about his time working > in Iran. He likes to entertain and throw parties. He also seemed to > get on very well with Sector Fine Arts staff and took very good care > of the Spanish artist in the show. The US cultural emissary in Cairo > was, by contrast, a cunt. > > today is Naguib Mafuz's birthday- enjoy your time in the alley. I > hope some documentation of your work there will be posted online. > > best, > Greg > > > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 7:56 AM, yves degoyon <ydegoyon(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> *Open* *Lab at the 11*^*th* * Cairo Bienale* >> >> *21*^*st* * to 27*^*th* * of December 2008* >> >> *Bab Gallery of the Museum of Modern Egyptian Art* >> >> >> In the context of the 11^th Cairo Bienale, in cooperation with the Fine >> Arts Sector of the Ministry of Culture, the Embassy of Spain in Cairo >> and LABoral Centro de Arte, Hangar has the honour to present an Open Lab >> in the Bab Gallery, a week of intensive workshops for artists and >> technicians interested in working with DIY hardware, free software and >> tactical cartographies. >> >> >> >> Program : >> >> 21-27/12/08 10h-13h Software - Pure Data : Yves Degoyon >> >> 21-27/12/08 14-19h Hardware - DIY Electronics : Diego Rodriguez Gomez >> >> 24/12/08 10h-19h Tactical Cartography : Pablo de Soto >> >> 27/12/08 20h Presentations & Lives >> >> >> Free Entry. >> Limited places. >> >> Reserve by email : _asistente.cultural(a)gmail.com >> <mailto:asistente.cultural@gmail.com>_ >> >> >> Bab Gallery of the Museum of Modern Egyptian Art >> >> Guezira Grounds (Cairo Opera House Complex) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> > >

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Percolate for Pd
by Mitchell Turner 11 Dec '08

11 Dec '08

Dear all, Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseam, but I've googled everything I can think of and have not been able to find Percolate for Pd. Does anyone know if there is a working version of the Percolate objects for Pd? I'm using Pd-Extended (0.40.3) on OSX (10.5.5). Thanks in advance, Mitch http://home.lagrange.edu/mturner/

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MIDI data to pd on OS X using MIDI network
by Lao Yu 11 Dec '08

11 Dec '08

oops - it's working now with the IAC driver - sorry for my hasty post. forget it... Shamefully Jurgen

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MIDI data to pd on OS X using MIDI network
by Lao Yu 11 Dec '08

11 Dec '08

Hi, I want to connect a commercial software (Logic) and send MIDI data to pd using the MIDI network which is part of the OS. Once MIDI network is enabled both Logic and pd 'see' the network driver and allow it to be configured as a device, Logic as an output (for external MIDI devices) and pd as an input. The output from Logic towards the network seems to work fine, I use Snoize MIDI monitor and that one displays the data correctly. However pd is sitting there and the notein object pretends that there's nothing coming in. I had notein work ok with a MIDI interface on my guitar - so the problem appears to be with the MIDI network. Did anybody ever use the MIDI network on OS X? I'm on OS X 4.11. I'd be gad to hear how you made it work (if you did). Best Jurgen

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Pd-list December 2008