Pd-list July 2006

pd-list@lists.iem.at

130 participants
223 discussions

RE: $-Dollar sign variables
by briencrean＠eircom.net 20 Jul '06

20 Jul '06

Thanks Guys all that info really helped! Packing the information into a list did the job, now I have my sequencer working! I didnt realise how wrong I was using the $ sign variables, I was treating them as though they could be used like a String variable in Java, C++ etc.. Also I thought that when the textfile object reads a line out of the file it outputs the contents as a list? Thanks again guys! Brien ----------------------------------------------------------------- Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts

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selecting device on startup
by Peter Worth 19 Jul '06

19 Jul '06

hello, i don't want to have to go to the ASIO settings dialog a choose the devices i want every time i run pd, so i've tried putting -asio -audioindev 4 -audiooutdev 6 in the startup dialog "flags" text box, and now when i try to start pd i get an error, so i cant get back to the startup dialog to change it. did i put the command line arguments in the wrong place? how should i change it and how can i change it now that it wont run?... thanks for any help. pete.

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Re: [PD] $-Dollar sign variables instantiation
by Frank Barknecht 19 Jul '06

19 Jul '06

Hallo, briencrean(a)eircom.net hat gesagt: // briencrean(a)eircom.net wrote: > I have attached a simple patch below in txt format. I dont > understand why when using the 'symbol' object I can instantiate the > $1 variable to a string and when I try the same with the $2 variable > it says "error: $2: argument number out of range". Just to comment on that specific problem as well: By sending a message [word( to a [symbol] object's first inlet, that message also will be converted to a proper symbol message: "symbol word". Now if you send this to a message [$1(, it will correctly print "word". But if you send this to a message [$2( as in your patch, Pd complains, because the message "symbol word" doesn't have a second data item to access with $2. Also you seem to misunderstand the difference between $-variables in messages and in object boxes. In object boxes, $1 will be replaced by the first argument of the parent patch, that is, the patch that includes an object having the same name as the patch, that contains the [symbol $1] (the abstraction). However if open such an abstraction directly without calling it through a parent patch, $1 and all subsequent $-variables in object boxes will be initialised as 0. Anyway sending a message into a [symbol $1] object will overwrite that initial argument with the incoming word. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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Re: [PD] $-Dollar sign variables instantiation
by Kevin McCoy 19 Jul '06

19 Jul '06

Hi Brien, I got some help on a similar problem a while ago - check this out: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-06/039027.html The basic idea is that in order to use $2 and on, you have to pack the elements into a list. Then when you send that list into an object, you can start accessing more than just $1. In the dollarsign example it's not very clear, but it makes more sense here: http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/Pd_documentation/x2.htm#s6.5<http://crca.ucsd.edu/%7Emsp/Pd_documentation/x2.htm#s6.5> There are a couple of things I'm not mentioning - if you use "subpatches" (abstractions) you can specify creation arguments. That's what the dollarsign example in the control examples is doing. But it sounds like you just need to pack into a list. Good luck, Kevin On 7/19/06, briencrean(a)eircom.net <briencrean(a)eircom.net > wrote: > > Hi List, > > This is my first question, I am a newbie. I apologise if this has been > asked before I have tried to find the answer in the archive and > documentation but to no avail. > > I have attached a simple patch below in txt format. I dont understand why > when using the 'symbol' object I can instantiate the $1 variable to a string > and when I try the same with the $2 variable it says "error: $2: argument > number out of range". > > My hope is to use the $1 and $2 as part of a message for a read message > for the 'soundfiler' object so that I can read multiple sound files into > multiple tables using a text file (which will contain the sound file names > and table name). > > #N canvas 406 51 458 308 12; > #X msg 229 22 word2; > #X obj 98 176 print \$1; > #X msg 74 23 word; > #X obj 105 89 symbol \$1; > #X obj 235 87 symbol \$2; > #X msg 109 135 \$1; > #X msg 224 137 \$2; > #X obj 226 177 print \$2; > #X connect 0 0 4 0; > #X connect 2 0 3 0; > #X connect 3 0 5 0; > #X connect 4 0 6 0; > #X connect 5 0 1 0; > #X connect 6 0 7 0; > > > Thanks for your help > > Brien > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property > Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts > > > > _______________________________________________ > PD-list(a)iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- "[D]aily life [is] a theatrical landscape in which 'everyone has their price,' God (via televangelism) and happiness (smile buttons) become commodities, radio stations say they love you, and detergents have compassion for your hands.

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comport in Win XP "Write error, maybe TX-OVERRUNS on serial line"
by Jaime Villarreal 19 Jul '06

19 Jul '06

Hi, I'm new to pd and would like to comunicate via the comport. I have a very simple patch which tries to send the number 1 to the comport object. The comport is configured as follows. comport $1 9600 Pd reports: Opened serial line device COM1 Ok. That's Good. But when I try to send anything I get, Write error, maybe TX-OVERRUNS on serial line My serial port, COM1, is the FTDI USB serial converter included on the arduino microcontroller board. I have been able to comunicate successfully through the USB converter with other software so I am sure it is not a problem with my converter. I have taken screenshots of everything that I thought might be related and published them here. http://www.intra.org.mx/pd/ If anyone can offer me any advice I'd be very grateful.

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$-Dollar sign variables instantiation
by briencrean＠eircom.net 19 Jul '06

19 Jul '06

Hi List, This is my first question, I am a newbie. I apologise if this has been asked before I have tried to find the answer in the archive and documentation but to no avail. I have attached a simple patch below in txt format. I dont understand why when using the 'symbol' object I can instantiate the $1 variable to a string and when I try the same with the $2 variable it says "error: $2: argument number out of range". My hope is to use the $1 and $2 as part of a message for a read message for the 'soundfiler' object so that I can read multiple sound files into multiple tables using a text file (which will contain the sound file names and table name). #N canvas 406 51 458 308 12; #X msg 229 22 word2; #X obj 98 176 print \$1; #X msg 74 23 word; #X obj 105 89 symbol \$1; #X obj 235 87 symbol \$2; #X msg 109 135 \$1; #X msg 224 137 \$2; #X obj 226 177 print \$2; #X connect 0 0 4 0; #X connect 2 0 3 0; #X connect 3 0 5 0; #X connect 4 0 6 0; #X connect 5 0 1 0; #X connect 6 0 7 0; Thanks for your help Brien ----------------------------------------------------------------- Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts

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routing in pd (was: [PD] pd if-then-else)
by Tas Pas 19 Jul '06

19 Jul '06

Thank you very much! But what if I want to make a toggle switch whitch routes things? If the swith is open, things will go left, If the switch is closed, things will go right ... Hi, > If I send values in a specific range, I want them to go somewhere. in that case it seems like [moses] is your friend. You can use multiple [moses] objects to define multiple ranges to route separately: [moses 0] | | [s a] [moses 1] | | [s b] [s c] Then all negative values go out the left, all positive values out the right, and all zero values out the centre. btw: if you wanted make [select] output the value, you could always store the value in a [i] (or [f]) before sending to select, and have the correct bang message routed to the first inlet of the corresponding [i]. Of course this is dirty cos you need as many [i]'s as 'select' parameters! However, just about anything is possible... Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://www.loopit.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tas Pas" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:30 AM Subject: routing in pd (was: [PD] pd if-then-else) Thanks for your immediate answer. The problem which occurs with [select] is that, when a match value reaches [select's] inlet, [select] sends a [bang] to the corresponding outlet and not the value it received and triggered the [bang]. What I want to do is to route the messages. If I send values in a specific range, I want them to go somewhere. If I send values beyond tha range, I want them to go somewhere else. In procedural programming languages it can be done with "if-then-else" and a variable. In pd the variable is not passed by the [select] and istead a [bang] message is sent. Is there a way to use [select] and have the value in a outlet or something? Thank you, and forgive me if I am writing in a confusing way. Regards, Terumi --------------------------------- ΓΓ±Γ§Γ³Γ©Γ¬Γ―Γ°Γ―Γ©Γ₯ΓΓ΄Γ₯ Yahoo! ΓΓ‘Γ±Γ₯Γ¨ΓΓͺΓ‘Γ΄Γ₯ Γ΄Γ‘ Γ₯ΓΓ―Γ·Γ«Γ§Γ΄Γ©ΓͺΓ Γ¬Γ§ΓΓ½ Γ¬Γ‘Γ΄Γ‘ (spam); ΓΓ― Yahoo! Mail Γ€Γ©Γ‘Γ¨ΓΓ΄Γ₯Γ© Γ΄Γ§Γ ΓͺΓ‘Γ«Γ½Γ΄Γ₯Γ±Γ§ Γ€Γ΅ΓΓ‘Γ΄Γ Γ°Γ±Γ―Γ³Γ΄Γ‘Γ³ΓΓ‘ ΓͺΓ‘Γ΄Γ Γ΄ΓΉΓ Γ₯ΓΓ―Γ·Γ«Γ§Γ΄Γ©ΓͺΓΎΓ Γ¬Γ§ΓΓ΅Γ¬ΓΓ΄ΓΉΓ http://login.yahoo.com/config/mail?.intl=gr

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pd if-then-else
by Tas Pas 19 Jul '06

19 Jul '06

Hello, This is my first question to the list. How can I make the pd equivallent to the "if-then-else" structure in pd? Regards, Terumi --------------------------------- ΓΓ±Γ§Γ³Γ©Γ¬Γ―Γ°Γ―Γ©Γ₯ΓΓ΄Γ₯ Yahoo! ΓΓ‘Γ±Γ₯Γ¨ΓΓͺΓ‘Γ΄Γ₯ Γ΄Γ‘ Γ₯ΓΓ―Γ·Γ«Γ§Γ΄Γ©ΓͺΓ Γ¬Γ§ΓΓ½ Γ¬Γ‘Γ΄Γ‘ (spam); ΓΓ― Yahoo! Mail Γ€Γ©Γ‘Γ¨ΓΓ΄Γ₯Γ© Γ΄Γ§Γ ΓͺΓ‘Γ«Γ½Γ΄Γ₯Γ±Γ§ Γ€Γ΅ΓΓ‘Γ΄Γ Γ°Γ±Γ―Γ³Γ΄Γ‘Γ³ΓΓ‘ ΓͺΓ‘Γ΄Γ Γ΄ΓΉΓ Γ₯ΓΓ―Γ·Γ«Γ§Γ΄Γ©ΓͺΓΎΓ Γ¬Γ§ΓΓ΅Γ¬ΓΓ΄ΓΉΓ http://login.yahoo.com/config/mail?.intl=gr

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RE: [PD] GEM GOP abstractions
by Danks, Mark 19 Jul '06

19 Jul '06

I can explain why GEM is "backwards" :-) Warning: History lesson for those who want to delete the spam now... The very 1st version of GEM actually worked with the shape objects (like square, etc) at the start. There was a final object called render which then drew the object. The problem is that it was extremely slow. This is for two reasons. 1) OpenGL is a state based system which draws tri's based on the current state and 2) carrying around all of the extra information to generate the tri's at the start, but draw them at the end was prohibitive on the SGI Indy's I was working on. I actually did some pieces with GEM like this, but it just ran too slowly and the underlying code was a pain in the neck, since I basically was duplicating OpenGL's state mechanism (and including geometry) and passing lots of pointers around between Pd/GEM objects. One nice thing at the time is that it was trivial to modify the vertices with objects. The tex_coord object is a legacy of this actually. I re-architected it to be more like the OpenGL functions and it ran faster, was easier to maintain, and easier to extend the functionality through OpenGL. It might be easier now to do it with the shape objects at the start with things like vertex buffers...but those didn't exist 10 years ago when I created GEM :-) Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: pd-list-bounces(a)iem.at [mailto:pd-list-bounces@iem.at] On Behalf Of > B. Bogart > Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 6:55 PM > To: Chris McCormick > Cc: pd-list(a)iem.at > Subject: Re: [PD] GEM GOP abstractions > > Hi Chris, > > I have not had a chance to look at your abstractions yet, but would you > be interested in making some contribution to pixelTANGO? > > Thomas O. F. and yourself have any ideas to foster collaboration between > us three, since we're making many Gem (GOP) abstractions... > > .b. > > Chris McCormick wrote: > > Grtz, > > > > I've been messing with GEM lately and have made a bunch of GOP > > abstractions to make things easier. You can find then in the tarball of > > my cvs which is at: > > > > http://mccormick.cx/viewcvs/s-abstractions.tar.gz?view=tar > > > > The gfx stuff is in the sx/ directory and works best if you include the > > parent directory (s-abstractions/) in your path. You'll need the zexy > > (for [repeat]) and Gem libraries. > > > > I have always found it strange how GEM seems to be kind of backwards in > > terms of the flow of data. In Pd you generally make a noise with e.g. > > [osc~] and then run it through some effects, into your [dac~] where it > > is output. In GEM it works the opposite way. You have to place all your > > color, translate, rotate, repeat, texture "effects" before you put the > > basic geom such as [cube], and the whole chain starts with the "output" > > [gemhead]. To address this I've been experimenting with a method of > > storing geometry in a [list] which is sent through geometry modifying > > "effects" to an object [sx/blob] which draws geometry represented as a > > list of verticies of triangles, to the screen. It's pretty crap and > slow, > > and I'd love to know if there is already a better way of doing this. > > > > You can send arbitrary geometry from blender3d into puredata by using > > the script in the utils/ directory. Copy it into your .blender/scripts/ > > directory and go File... Export... Raw Triangles across the Net... > > whilst having sx/netgeom-help.pd open. You can't send very complex > > geometry or the whole thing starts to chug pretty badly, but I think > > it's a start for something better. > > > > An example of an effect on geometry is the sx/explode patch which > > translates all faces along their normals by some amount. This is all > > done as [list] math so it's hellishly slow on complex geometry. > > > > I am particularly interested to hear if there is a better, faster way of > > doing this [vector level geom manipulation] that I don't know about. I > > have been really inspired by the fijuu stuff and I would like to be able > > to do similar kinds of mesh warping from withing Pd and GEM. > > > > Best, > > > > Chris. > > > > ------------------- > > chris(a)mccormick.cx > > http://mccormick.cx > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PD-list(a)iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PD-list(a)iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

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Re: patch parameterisation: was [PD] abstractions which have their own memory
by Frank Barknecht 19 Jul '06

19 Jul '06

Hallo, (cc'ing pd-list) padawan12 hat gesagt: // padawan12 wrote: > Yes, I strongly agree with this, with a couple of > caveats. It's something I'm struggling to formulate > on other subject threads and is tied up with > the process of "parameterisation". > > In the old days you basically had 3 layers > > Performance data sitting on top of the patch > sitting on top of the hardware. The hardware was > an immutable given, and the patch could be seen like > a "firmware" on which you could base a performance. > > The line between pre-configuration and real-time control > has always been blury and shifting. In some ways it is > an artifice of historical design practices, but it has > utility to reduce performance data. > > You can see the "patch" as being the data that is factored > out of a performance, stuff that will remain the same for > every note/event. > > On the other hand, a properly flexible synthesiser > can address every parameter on every note, or even at > every computation tick, the synth is constantly updated. > In this model we stop viewing the synth as a fixed instrument. > This fits well with the ground between explicit synthesis > (human parameterised) and resynthesis (where the parameters > are analytic signals.) > > If you take this model to its logical conclusion, it's an > argument agaist "patches" of any kind whatsoever. Patches > don't exist anymore. Instead you have only a rich set of > performance/control data. > > Problem is, it's unmanagable in most practical cases. > > So, the optimal digital synthesiser is a layered model > with the "patch" data as an interpreter of performance > data, which passes it down to the synthesis subsystem. > That synthesis engine/gubbins/guts should be as you describe, > unsullied by any design decisions hardcoded into it. > > This is essential in my model for effective real-time > clientside synthesis of sounds on a replicated multiplayer > network game. The actual DSP parts that do the hard work > are very small, and must be split from the data that tells > them what to do - that comes over the network or from > the physics engine. That's actually exactly the setup I used when I was hit with problems in netsend/netreceive: I'm using a physics engine and graphical visualisation in one Pd, then connect this to another Pd which functions as the synth engine. The synth-"patch" is very simple and small, while most of the work is done in the other Pd. Physics is more demanding than sound synthesis in this case. > I am hoping to expand this analysis into a whole chapter > on the issues of parameterisation. Many more questions > are raised, such as the need for a fourth layer that > sits between the synth and patch interpreter to manage > scaling and limits, a kind of realtime type and bounds > checking and coercion process. Clearly this doesn't belong > in the synthesis core either. Cyrille Henry and Ali Momeni wrote about this in e.g. their paper: "Dynamic Autonomous Mapping Layers for Concurrent Control of Audio and Video Synthesis" where they view this "fourth layer" or mapping layer as a dynamic system itself, that is, it's something that follows its own rules and can change as well. This is just one example where a naive way of state saving hits at borders: What if you want to programmatically change your "state" through interpolation or other means? If this state is distributed over many patch file or hardcoded into message boxes, processing the state itself becomes hard or impossible. I admit that Memento doesn't have a solution for this problem yet, and I'm still not sure how it can get one. > Until this is all explained clearly the semantic problem > is what we mean by a "patch". Most peoples synthesisers contain > all of the five layers, which they call a patch, so naturally > the fixed "patch" values go inside that. It isn't until > you have to decouple the interface from the DSP gubbins that > you realise the bad software engineering decisions in there. Now I'll first have to look up what "gubbins" are, but I have a guess ... ;) Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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Pd-list July 2006