Pd-list April 2006

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136 participants
232 discussions

Understanding Selectors, Atoms, Lists ...
by Sciss 29 Apr '06

29 Apr '06

hi, this may be related to a thread last week about the nature lists ? as a experienced max-user i'm having problems to understand the nature of PD atoms. there seems to be the possibility that an atom is neither a symbol, nor a number nor a list ? like in this patch some inputs leave [route] through the rightmost outlet: #N canvas 316 159 576 396 10; #X msg 30 55 3.14159; #X obj 67 149 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1 -1; #X obj 117 149 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1 -1; #X obj 66 123 route float list symbol; #X obj 169 149 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1 -1; #X obj 221 149 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1 -1; #X msg 122 55 alpha; #X msg 215 55 alpha beta; #X text 213 35 NOT a list??; #X text 97 35 NOT a symbol??; #X text 41 198 Philosophical question : if an atom is not a symbol \, nor a number \, nor a list \, what kind of primitive atom class is it instead?; #X msg 310 56 symbol alpha; #X msg 412 57 symbol alpha beta; #X msg 354 127 list alpha; #X msg 430 90 list alpha beta; #X text 351 161 it's routed as a "symbol"!; #X text 66 164 f; #X text 117 166 l; #X text 169 166 s; #X text 221 168 other; #X text 349 146 this is completely weird \,; #X msg 132 304 list alpha beta; #X obj 255 365 print A; #X obj 321 365 print B; #X msg 255 305 list alpha; #X msg 338 304 alpha beta; #X obj 256 341 zl slice 1; #X text 339 284 allowed ...; #X connect 0 0 3 0; #X connect 3 0 1 0; #X connect 3 1 2 0; #X connect 3 2 4 0; #X connect 3 3 5 0; #X connect 6 0 3 0; #X connect 7 0 3 0; #X connect 11 0 3 0; #X connect 12 0 3 0; #X connect 13 0 3 0; #X connect 14 0 3 0; #X connect 21 0 26 0; #X connect 24 0 26 0; #X connect 25 0 26 0; #X connect 26 0 22 0; #X connect 26 1 23 0; what i find particularly confusing is that [list alpha( comes out of the symbol outlet ... then the nature of lists. here i compare the same functionality in pd and max. first max: max v2; #N vpatcher 361 44 787 395; #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.; #P comment 89 223 29 196617 here; #P button 70 222 15 0; #P button 29 222 15 0; #P newex 29 192 51 196617 route list; #P comment 292 159 58 196617 "test test"; #P button 227 221 15 0; #P button 186 221 15 0; #P newex 186 191 51 196617 route list; #P newex 226 156 59 196617 print SLICE; #P newex 186 129 50 196617 zl slice 0; #P newex 67 136 59 196617 print PACK; #P newex 67 98 45 196617 pack s s; #P button 39 54 15 0; #P message 102 54 26 196617 test; #P message 67 54 26 196617 test; #P comment 69 158 58 196617 "test test"; #P comment 244 222 29 196617 here; #P comment 68 35 54 196617 both work; #P fasten 6 0 14 0 72 122 34 122; #P connect 14 0 15 0; #P connect 3 0 6 0; #P fasten 5 0 6 0 44 83 72 83; #P connect 6 0 7 0; #P connect 14 1 16 0; #P connect 4 0 6 1; #P fasten 6 0 8 0 72 122 191 122; #P fasten 8 1 10 0 231 150 191 150; #P connect 10 0 11 0; #P connect 8 1 9 0; #P connect 10 1 12 0; #P pop; ... then the same in pd: #N canvas 253 241 513 444 10; #X obj 82 133 pack s s; #X msg 175 57 test; #X msg 83 57 test; #X text 83 39 this works; #X text 175 38 this complains; #X msg 175 103 symbol test; #X text 176 86 this works; #X obj 49 101 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1 -1; #X obj 147 161 zl slice 0; #X obj 83 194 print PACK; #X text 59 214 "list test test"; #X text 210 212 "test test" (so "list" is "lost"?); #X obj 7 281 route list; #X obj 8 309 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1 -1; #X obj 77 311 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1 -1; #X obj 24 340 print ROUTE; #X obj 157 261 route list; #X obj 158 289 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1 -1; #X obj 222 290 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1 -1; #X text 21 361 "list" removed again; #X obj 213 193 print SLICE; #X text 242 289 here; #X connect 0 0 8 0; #X connect 0 0 9 0; #X connect 0 0 12 0; #X connect 1 0 0 1; #X connect 2 0 0 0; #X connect 5 0 0 1; #X connect 7 0 0 0; #X connect 8 1 16 0; #X connect 8 1 20 0; #X connect 12 0 13 0; #X connect 12 0 15 0; #X connect 12 1 14 0; #X connect 16 0 17 0; #X connect 16 1 18 0; there seems to be no logic whether one has can use a message "as such" and when one has to prepend the "symbol" selector. also there seems to be no logic whether an object outputs a list "as such" or with a prepended "list" selector ; like [pack] accepts a symbol without "symbol" in the left inlet, but not in the right inlet ; it will output a list prepended by "list" ; if i put this list into [zl], the list-prefix is stripped. also, what kind of atom is this [alpha beta gamma( if not a list? thanks for help. best, -sciss-

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crash course in ambisonics?
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 29 Apr '06

29 Apr '06

I took a look at ambisonics for the first time, its not simple... Anyone know a crash course in ambisonics? Or even better, are there any simple 2D examples around? .hc ________________________________________________________________________ ____ I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler

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error compiling IEM16 on Mac OS X
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 29 Apr '06

29 Apr '06

cc -DPD -O3 -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-pointer -I/Users/hans/cvs/ pure-data/externals/../pd/src -Wall -W -I/sw/include -DMACOSX -DUNIX - Dunix -o "/Users/hans/cvs/pure-data/externals/../externals/iem16/src/ iem16_array.o" -c "/Users/hans/cvs/pure-data/externals/../externals/ iem16/src/iem16_array.c" In file included from /Users/hans/cvs/pure-data/externals/../ externals/iem16/src/iem16_array.c:9: /Users/hans/cvs/pure-data/externals/../externals/iem16/src/ iem16_table.h:92: error: parse error before "int32" /Users/hans/cvs/pure-data/externals/../externals/iem16/src/ iem16_table.h:92: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union Here's the code in question: 89 union tabfudge 90 { 91 double tf_d; 92 int32 tf_i[2]; 93 }; .hc ________________________________________________________________________ ____ Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish. -William Carlos Williams

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very strange bug
by oliver 29 Apr '06

29 Apr '06

hi, list when i was working with PD 0.38.3 (on WinXP), lately i discovered a very strange phenomenon that luckily occurs on very rare occasions only (which i fear makes it very hard to reproduce or strip down): sometimes during editing, random windows pop up with every mouseclick i do on a window's blue top-frame. most of these windows are PD help patches; some seem to be tkl script files. every click on a window opens up new one until there's so many windows open that PD quits. forunately there's always a chance to save my work before the window-flood becomes fatal. i also noticed, that clicking INSIDE a window (rather than its top frame) doesn't make another window pop up... now i'm pretty sure, that this is no virus-related issue. i also took care that i got rid of all PD 0.37 files when i upgraded to 0.38 (don't want to join the 0.39 party yet as long as the "Close this window??" thing is still there). however, i think i use pretty hairy stuff in my patches: lots of vst plugin windows, lots of 3rd party externals (mostly cyclone), as well thomas grill's "wmangle" and toxy. all of them are used to fiddle around with the graphical guts of PD and maybe this combination is a bit too risky but i would like to ask the list if anyone has experienced a similar PD-behaviour as described above thanks oliver -- \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ///////////// http://klingt.org/ground/lift //////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\ http://www.charmant-rouge.com \\\\\\\\\\\\ ///////// http://klingt.org/executive-ensemble ///////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\ http://klingt.org/~oliver/prb \\\\\\\\\\\\ //////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\ LIVE-BUILDER (music improvisation tool): \\\\\\ /////// http://klingt.org/~oliver/pd/live-builder ////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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helppath in pdsettings
by João Miguel Pais 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

Hi, in unix, how is it possible to set the helppath variable in .pdsettings? I found no documentation about it, so have created a .pdrc file just for -helppath .... Joao -- Lugostr. 14 79100 Freiburg i. Br. Deutschland +49 (0)761 7074997 jmmmpais(a)googlemail.com http://www.puredata.org/Members/jmmmp

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Can't get any results from PDB
by Phil Stone 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

Sometime in the last few months, PDB has stopped working for me. No matter what query I type, I get no results. The [ALL EXTERNALS WITH COMPLETE ENTIRES] link gives a 404. I know this used to work, and I've seen people talking about pdb like it still works, so what gives? Is there some basic browser setting I've munged? I'm using Firefox, on both XP and Tiger. Thanks, Phil

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no love from rockefeller for Pd~conf 2
by Hans Steiner 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

Bad news, Rockefeller isn't interested in funding the Pd conference now, but I think they might still be open to funding other things. But have other good news about Pd conf funding, but I don't think I should be the one to announce it... In other good news, City Tech, another technical university which is literally next door to Polytechnic, might also contribute resources to Pd~conf. They have a high-tech theatre which is being offered, most likely for free. They have a big entertainment technology dept. and they work with Broadway shows a lot, so that theatre is their laboratory. .hc Begin forwarded message: > From: "Creativity" <Creativity(a)rockfound.org> > Date: April 27, 2006 10:31:08 PM GMT+02:00 > To: <hsteiner(a)poly.edu> > Subject: Conference > > Dear Mr. Steiner: > > First, please allow us to apologize for the length of time it has > taken > for us to reply to the inquiry you sent on 3/24/06 . The portion of > the Foundation's web site that forwards these inquiries for > response was > malfunctioning during the time you wrote to us, and it is only now > that > we have been able to recover the queries that were sent in while the > system was not operational. Again, our apologies. > > Creativity & Culture's support for conferences is very limited. For > the > most part, officers will choose to fund a conference only if it is an > outgrowth of, or a precursor to, a program or project supported by > Creativity & Culture, or if it will center on a topic of direct and > immediate concern to the programmatic and/or strategic foci of the > department. Because the project you have described, while compelling, > does not fall into either of these categories, we will not be able to > provide support for the event. > > Please feel free to consult Creativity & Culture's area of the > Rockefeller Foundation's web site (www.rockfound.org/creativity) for > more information about our programming. > > We're sorry we cannot be of help to you in this instance, but wish you > well in identifying alternate sources of support. > > Regards, > Creativity & Culture >

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Re: can't get pix_imageInPlace to work
by Peter Worth 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

On 26/04/06, Peter Worth <peterworth2(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > i've been trying to use pix_multiImage to switch between different images > in my patch, but have found that it causes gaps in the music as it loads (or > copies?) images when it needs to switch. i'm almost certain that > pix_imageInPlace is the solution to my problem, but it doesnt seem to work > at all - even in the help file for it. if i just change the help file patch > so that it loads some tifs which exist, then click on that message, then the > console says all the images are loaded successfully. but then if i create > the window and try changing the right inlet number, there is always just a > blank white square instead of a textured one. > > what could i be doing wrong? in fact, has anyone got any patch at all that i could look at, which uses pix_imageInPlace and works? thanks.

1 0

Jack, netsend, realtime-mode and all the rest
by Frank Barknecht 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

Hi, in a rather demanding setup I'm currently working on, I use two Pd instances: one for visuals with Gem, the other running with "-rt" for audio stuff. Both are connected through netsend/netreceive in UDP mode, all is happening on Linux. I have to send quite a lot of data over this net connection (control data for audio generated from physical models and msd). Generally however this is no problem: If I run Pd using my laptop's internal soundcard all is fine. However I would like to use my USB soundcard instead, which is a Terratec Phase 26 with 2 channels in and 6 channels out. Pd seems to be unable to handle this channel combination, so I started to use Jack. However now my troubles really begin: Somehow I'm not able to get this combination running stable. I run Jack realtime with -R and tried various values of -P to set jackd's priority: -P70 up to -P89. However with all of these, after some time the audio-Pd starts to run into a fight with the watchdog: signalling Pd to stop. The audio-Pd keeps running, however I get regular clicks in the audio stream. I *suspect* that this has something to do with the network data, like Pd is not keeping up with receiving the network stuff in time. Running the audio-Pd with "-noadc" helps a bit, but not for long. So: Does anyone have any tips or tricks how to get a stable Pd in this situation? And should jackd run at a higher or at a lower priority than Pd? Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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OSC in pd extended 0.39.2 WinXP
by David Powers 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

Hello, I did a clean install of the latest WinXP installer by Hans, and OSC objects (ie. sendOSC) seem to have disappeared. However, OSC exists in this version, on the other PC I use, where 0.38.4 was previously installed, and now 0.39.2 is there. Is some library not loading or something? ~David

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Pd-list April 2006