Pd-list February 2003

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127 participants
210 discussions

RE: [PD] PD usability
by Matthew Allen 13 Feb '03

13 Feb '03

> -----Original Message----- > From: Marc Lavallée [mailto:odradek@videotron.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 2:37 PM > To: 'pd-list' > Subject: RE: [PD] PD usability > > So for me, a "better" PD would have been cool. I won't accept such a job > unless artists agrees to change their tools and their attitude toward > technology. But we need to help them a little bit, or I might never work > with them again. Zoinks, Obviously I wasn't there, but this sounds more to me like a lack of 'educating' the end user as to what the options are, and how if you choose option 'a (max)' you may miss out on important things like being able to afford lab time. Marc, Don't give up hope. There are plenty of experienced artists out there who are more than willing to get our hands dirty. I often go back and forth about this issue. There are times where I just want to get a track done, and I don't want to spend the effort creating an environment (abstraction in this case) that would allow me to do it. I want the immediate return. But I also have enough experience to know that if I put the time up front to really bang on something I will get months (if not years in some cases) of positive return for it. I don't want this thread turning into an artist v. programmer thread. The one thing that has always impressed me the most about the PD community is the fact that almost every site I go to, to download an external, has music on it created by the people who wrote the external. This is priceless. Having done visual art now in the game industry for over 8 years I have come to truly appreciate the Engineer who has a sense of visual flair, and is willing to get his/her hands dirty doing 'art', just like I know my understanding of technology (and limited coding/scripting skills) has made many an engineer smile. m.

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GEM on linux questions
by Stephan Bourgeois 12 Feb '03

12 Feb '03

Hello everybody, I am new to PD and GEM and I have a few questions. I am using RedHat 7.3 with the nVidia modules and a TNT2 card. And after reading the much heated dbate on PD usability, I must say that I come from a 3d computer graphics background and a on the music front from using cSound + Cecilia. And I found PD very useable so far. Here are my questions : 1. GEM kills the X11 server when I send a [destroy( message to [gemwin]. Is this normal ? A way round the problem is to : stop rendering, close the OpenGL window from the desktop, then close the PD project window, at which stage PD will crash "pd_gui: pd process exited". 2. I have had great fun with [pix_coordinate]. Fortunately there are very good OpenGL tutorials on the web, maybe the manual could point to them. [pix_coordinate] works fine with [cube], but it doesn't seem to have any effect on [cylinder] or [sphere], is this normal ? 3. Is there a way I can save to disk a snapshot of the OpenGL framebuffer ? I have played with [pix_snap] but I don't know how to write the framebuffer into a file. Thanks. Stephan.

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Re: [PD] PD usability
by _______________ 12 Feb '03

12 Feb '03

hallo, tom(a)nullpointer.co.uk wrote: > > And if it wasn't for Adams great OSx packages I would still be struggling > with my setuid and -rt stuff. where to find adams great osx packages ? thank you. please continue . . ekaterina [sorry tom if i email you not list by mistake]

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Re: [PD] PD usability
by Thomas Grill 12 Feb '03

12 Feb '03

> PD is a great tool, and I agree things will only get better the more artists are using it. Totally agreed, but most artists just want to _use_ it for their art, not develop it. What exactly should cause them to use PD instead of Max/MSP? I think that Max/MSP has a really fair price if you're seriously working with it. For me, the main reason to trust in PD is the fact that i'm silly enough to waste my time with developing basics (and neglecting art) and hoping that something really powerful can come out in the end if more people are thinking in the same way. It's very idealistic though and may prove wrong. T

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olskool laptup
by /voldemars 12 Feb '03

12 Feb '03

Hi list, this might sound stupid, but i got this ThinkPad 500 /486/50mhz/4mb ram/180mb hdd wonder if it's possible / worth to try to run pd with it for some simple data, midi processing? or should i throw it out? /v

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warning: MIDI timing FIFO overflow
by David McCallum 12 Feb '03

12 Feb '03

Ever since .36 I've been occasionally getting the error: warning: MIDI timing FIFO overflow Then my whole computer slows down until I have to force Pd to quit. Using WinXP. Any ideas? . . David McCallum . Music wants to be free . http://mentalfloss.ca/sintheta/ .

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re: NRPN 14-bit controllers
by eskogen＠usfamily.net 12 Feb '03

12 Feb '03

i had completed an extern to control my studiomix mixer. it sends and receives NRPNS for control. it was special purpose and converted only the controls it needed in kind of a poor way. if you are interested in the source code (i used flext, c++) just let me know. i never released it because it was my first extern, and rough code. btw: the studiomix is going for $250 these days. it's an 8-fader controller with transport controls. motorized faders! but nobody wants one because they used cakewalk proprietary NRPNs for control... anyway, i'll be interested to see what you come up with. --eric ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------

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Re: [PD] PD usability
by bbogart＠ryerson.ca 12 Feb '03

12 Feb '03

Hey Marc, I've had the exact same experience! And ironically this was at a PC exclusive school, with only a single g3, with no MAX licence. (we happen to have many final-cut edit suites but are not allowed to install MAX on them) Almost every class was a discussion about what you can do in one and not the other. I mentioned a few things like SQL queries, ANN, built in robust tcp/ip and UDP communication, OpenGL (this was before jitter) mp3 streaming, etc etc... no convincing, but he did attend a PD workshop I did! ;) OSX is looking nicer and nicer, but oh dear what to do about the tcl/tk thing... (Is anyone working on a cocoa GUI for PD?), wxwindows, gtk, anything else? *sigh* PD is a great tool, and I agree things will only get better the more artists are using it. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Lavallée <odradek(a)videotron.ca> Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:32 am Subject: [PD] PD usability > I had a strange conversation yesterday with a teacher who > basically said > that free software sucks because of usability issues, and that he'll > refuse to teach Pure Data because Max is vastly superior at the > cognitive level. The segmented patch cord functionnality seems to > be of > major importance to him. He also seemed quite revolted by the > installation process of the OSX version. So to him, the whole idea of > free software is simply irrelevent. This man (who call himself an > anarchist, go figure) is telling all those young people that they must > pay a fortune to get a fancy Mac and a Max/MSP/Jitter licence. > > I'm the only one in my community to use free software for multimedia > production. I'd really like my people to use free software, but they > simply don't want to, because the very second they are in touch > with "no > so easy to use" softwares, they almost puke. How could we make PD > betterso these people would agree using free software? I stopped > using Max > because of its restrictive license, and I prefer PD to jMax > because it's > lighter and faster. > > Most of us don't need fancy segmented patch cords and graphical > objectswith a puffy look, but can we focus a little bit on the > graphicalinterface issues? I need those Mac addicts to use PD. I > like being in > touch with people on this list, but I also need real people (those > I get > in touch with everyday) to use the same tools than me. > > -- > Marc > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PD-list mailing list > PD-list(a)iem.kug.ac.at > http://iem.kug.ac.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list >

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NRPN abstractions
by David McCallum 12 Feb '03

12 Feb '03

Hey, what do you know, I've made two abstractions nrpnin and nrpnout that function almost like ctlin and ctlout objects. Tested them today with our Slidemate and they work GREAT. I'd appreciate any comments, and bug reports, etc. Especially to see how they work with other gear out there. I'm having trouble updating my site. Check http://mentalfloss.ca/sintheta/html/misc/downloads.html first to see if they're up there. Otherwise let me know and I'll e-mail them out. . . David McCallum . Music wants to be free . http://mentalfloss.ca/sintheta/ .

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Re:[PD] Wanted: RME Hammerfall experiences [HELP!]
by Derek Holzer 12 Feb '03

12 Feb '03

johannes, uurrrggggggg! no dice. i tried flashing the hardware with revision 10 in win, powering down, booting to linux, and even reinstalling all ALSA drivers, libs, utils.... nothing. is there something really wrong with my config files, or is it possible a problem with my pcmcia? derek Quoting Johannes Taelman <Johannes.Taelman(a)rug.ac.be>: > > there's an update history: > http://www.rme-audio.de/english/techinfo/updatehd.htm > Nothing too bad imho. I'm using the multiface for one year now, long > before this firmware update. > > Don't shake for the flash update. It's fine if you don't reboot your > computer while it's running. Just make sure that you have no unstable > programs running that could cause a bluescreen. And even if it messes up, > I think you could get it covered by guarantee, with the nice people at > RME. > > 'lspci' showed that the card was there, while there are reports of running > hdsp+alsa configs. And I remembered that I did a flash upgrade a couple of > months ago. > > I kindda got used to work around bugs. Eg. to use ASIO in PD at 96kHz, you > have to play a wave file at 96kHz in another program while starting PD. > Otherwise PD misdetects the number of channels and crashes. But actually > I think RME is among the best. With an Layla24+asio+pd it shifts channels > each time you close PD. Only rebooting gets it back to the first channels. > Very annoying... -------------------------------------------------

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Pd-list February 2003