On Jul 1, 2010, at 12:33 PM, dmotd wrote:
> hi hans,
>
> okay, i still have no real idea what you are talking about
> here? i get the makefile template, but how exactly does this
> relate to a buildsystem, the examples that use the template
> are still called by the centralised makefile?
yes, check ext13 externals/Makefile for example.
> thomas maintains his own buildsystem and as much as its
> apparently stumped a bunch of people in the past, it is
> designed for cross platform AND max/msp. to redesign an
> entire build system to fit a template, for sake of maintaining
> some design rules seems a little over the top, that's why i
> decided to simply wrap it. besides, the flext layer has enough
> complexity to require a decent autoconf first, and if recent
> threads are correct, there's no libdir based autoconf
> template.
A libdir autoconf template would be awesome to have though. Building
C or C++ objects for Pd isn't hard. What about flext makes things so
complicated? In the process of making that template Makefile, I
realized that autotools is really rarely needed for externals. Only
really when there are a lot of library dependencies.
> the thing that has me confused is this notion of packaging?
> if pd-X is going to disolve into a system of separated libs
> (libdirs?) called by a virtual package 'pd-X', and thus
> 'debianize' the entire system, then i support that - however
> there must be some wrapper script that does the job that
> pd-X currently does? i understand that the template is
> designed to make that job simpler, by making the build
> assumptions the responsibility of each lib and creating a
> libdir path, but how does this actually spawn packages?
>
> what i like about pd-X is that it unifies a lot of extras
> and provides a neat wrapper for the build, so i'm assuming
> that your direction will be providing scripts to wrap
> certain build environments (osx/win/fed/deb/ubu/etc). have
> you got examples of how this next generation of build
> scripts will look with the makefile-template, or will the
> current centralised system slowly morph into the desired
> endpoint? i am a little concerned that a 'one size fits all'
> may not fit all...
The core idea is to avoid one-size-fits-all by decentralizing the
libraries. If libraries are really easy to make, distribute and
install, then there isn't a strong need to have all the libraries
included in Pd-extended itself. People can maintain their libraries
entirely separately, removing the unavoidable roadblocks that happen
when things get centralized.
For Pd-extended 0.43, I think we should be removing a bunch of
libraries that are not really used or maintained and make them
separately distributed. You can see some idea of the plans here:
http://puredata.info/dev/NextRelease
That said, there is value to having a default set of libraries that
you know will always be included with Pd-extended. I think to get to
that point, libraries need to be very stable both in terms of their
interface/features and their bugginess. Think of python libraries, or
ruby, etc.
.hc
> anyway, without some guidelines, i'm not sure i will ever
> understand what you have in mind, and what is acceptable
> practice. i'm just wanting to contribute something that's
> been missing from the pd-x object pool, without getting too
> caught up in some fundamental change of practice.
>
> best,
> dmotd
>
> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>
>> The idea is to have all libraries have their own standalone build
>> systems that do not rely on the packages/Makefile.buildlayout stuff.
>> That's the idea with the Makefile/library template.
>>
>> I think the best plan for flext would be to make a version of the
>> template Makefile that works for C++/flext. Then that Makefile can
>> easily be used for Debian/Ubuntu/RPM/etc. packaging.
>>
>> http://puredata.info/docs/developer/MakefileTemplate
>>
>> I could see including the flext library itself in Pd-extended, that
>> is if it is not changing much. But the externals itself should
>> start out separately distributed libdirs IMHO.
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On Jun 28, 2010, at 9:50 PM, dmotd wrote:
>>
>>> hi hans,
>>>
>>> the work i've done slots straight into the existing
>>> externals/Makefile structure and currently builds fine on
>>> linux, it uses thomas' build system and until a better
>>> autoconf alternative is created, this is by far the easiest
>>> (and has been working quite well for years). as such this a
>>> multi-class single lib system.
>>>
>>> i have followed the libdir rules, with help-files
>>> abstraction (and in py/ext case scriptets) in each libs own
>>> dir, and other stuff in examples. the actual flext headers
>>> and libs get installed in their own $prefix/include
>>> $prefix/lib.
>>>
>>> my intention is to get the flext externals into the nightly
>>> autobuid. i'm not sure what you mean by 'distribuited as
>>> stand-alone', if this is a reference to your plan to split
>>> supported pd-extended libs into individual packages, then
>>> i'll need to know more about what scripts you have at your
>>> disposal and your release schedule for this new packaging
>>> system.
>>>
>>> i've attached a diff of my working makefile, which will need
>>> to be tested against other platforms and linux
>>> distributions. currently the following libs build and
>>> install correctly: absattr, pool, py, xsample (i am waitinng
>>> on some fixes up stream for clk and vasp)
>>>
>>> sorry for not emailing earlier, i've had little time to work
>>> on this stuff and just ran with the momentum with the small
>>> time i have had.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> dmotd
>>>
>>> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey, I just saw you are working flext stuff, lots of people will
>>>> appreciate that. I don't know your plan, but I wanted to save you
>>>> some effort. At this point, I think that the flext stuff should be
>>>> distributed as standalone libraries, rather than integrated with
>>>> Pd-
>>>> extended. That makes it easier to package too, for things like
>>>> archlinux, Debian, Fedora, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Also, if you are starting in on packaging things for archlinux,
>>>> check out the externals/template. If you can make a template
>>>> archlinux packaging file for that, then it'll be really easy to
>>>> make
>>>> packages for all of the libraries that use that template:
>>>>
>>>> http://puredata.info/docs/developer/MakefileTemplate
>>>>
>>>> .hc
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is
>>>> publicity. - Bill Moyers
>>>>
>>>>
>>> <flext.diff>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I hate it when they say, "He gave his life for his country." Nobody
>> gives their life for anything. We steal the lives of these kids. -
>> Admiral Gene LeRocque
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pd-dev mailing list
>> Pd-dev(a)iem.at
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Information wants to be free. -Stewart Brand
hi hans,
the work i've done slots straight into the existing
externals/Makefile structure and currently builds fine on
linux, it uses thomas' build system and until a better
autoconf alternative is created, this is by far the easiest
(and has been working quite well for years). as such this a
multi-class single lib system.
i have followed the libdir rules, with help-files
abstraction (and in py/ext case scriptets) in each libs own
dir, and other stuff in examples. the actual flext headers
and libs get installed in their own $prefix/include
$prefix/lib.
my intention is to get the flext externals into the nightly
autobuid. i'm not sure what you mean by 'distribuited as
stand-alone', if this is a reference to your plan to split
supported pd-extended libs into individual packages, then
i'll need to know more about what scripts you have at your
disposal and your release schedule for this new packaging
system.
i've attached a diff of my working makefile, which will need
to be tested against other platforms and linux
distributions. currently the following libs build and
install correctly: absattr, pool, py, xsample (i am waitinng
on some fixes up stream for clk and vasp)
sorry for not emailing earlier, i've had little time to work
on this stuff and just ran with the momentum with the small
time i have had.
cheers,
dmotd
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
> Hey, I just saw you are working flext stuff, lots of people will
> appreciate that. I don't know your plan, but I wanted to save you
> some effort. At this point, I think that the flext stuff should be
> distributed as standalone libraries, rather than integrated with Pd-
> extended. That makes it easier to package too, for things like
> archlinux, Debian, Fedora, etc.
>
> Also, if you are starting in on packaging things for archlinux,
> check out the externals/template. If you can make a template
> archlinux packaging file for that, then it'll be really easy to make
> packages for all of the libraries that use that template:
>
> http://puredata.info/docs/developer/MakefileTemplate
>
> .hc
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is
> publicity. - Bill Moyers
>
>
Bugs item #3023463, was opened at 2010-06-30 19:48
Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by sistisette
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Category: pd-devel
Group: v0.43
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 5
Private: No
Submitted By: Matteo Sisti Sette (sistisette)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: Help patches don't open in pd-devel on Ubuntu
Initial Comment:
Right click/help fails to open ANY help patch:
sorry, couldn't find help patch for "whatever.pd"
This is today's nightly autobuild for karmic, installed on Ubuntu 10.04
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Bugs item #3023461, was opened at 2010-06-30 19:45
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Category: pd-devel
Group: v0.43
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 5
Private: No
Submitted By: Matteo Sisti Sette (sistisette)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: "test audio and midi" doesn't open test patch in Ubuntu
Initial Comment:
I installed today's karmic autobuild of pd-devel-0.43 (I'm actually on lucid but can't see any lucid autobuild for 0.43), and when I go to Media/Test audio and midi, it doesn't open the usual test patch (it doesn't open anything).
It doesn't print any error message to the console either.
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Bugs item #3023091, was opened at 2010-06-29 23:45
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Category: None
Group: None
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 5
Private: No
Submitted By: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: iemguts/canvasargs treats "bang" different from "list"
Initial Comment:
I suppose I could have titled this bug, "most of the rest of Pd implies that the user doesn't need to differentiate between a bang and an empty list."
If you send "bang" to [canvasargs], it outputs the current list of args that it's planning to write once the parent patch is saved.
If you send it "list", [canvasargs] resets so that no arguments will be saved with the abstraction in the parent patch.
[canvasargs] uses messages that are anything other than the built-in Pd message types to change the name of the abstraction in the parent patch. It might be better if there were a "clear" message to clear the args, and a "new" message to change the name of the abstraction.
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Bugs item #3019026, was opened at 2010-06-21 11:47
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Category: puredata
Group: v0.42
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 5
Private: No
Submitted By: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: pd -batch does not compute audio if "; pd dsp 1" is [delay]d
Initial Comment:
pd -batch -open "test.pd" -send "RENDER 50 test.wav"
[r RENDER]--[delay 1000]--"; pd dsp 1"
makes audio not work in batch mode; removing the [delay] is a workaround...
See this thread for more info:
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2010-06/080278.html
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Patches item #3011815, was opened at 2010-06-05 15:15
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Category: pd-extended
Group: None
>Status: Closed
Resolution: Accepted
Priority: 5
Private: No
Submitted By: Dan Wilcox (danomatika)
Assigned to: Hans-Christoph Steiner (eighthave)
Summary: Path editor cannot edit bad paths
Initial Comment:
Running Pd-Extended 0.42.5 rc1 on Mac OSX 10.6.3
I moved some local lib folders and tried to update them in the Path editor. Selecting one of these paths and hitting Edit... results in a TK error dialog with the following message: Error: Bad directory "/Users/path/to/old/folder...". I cannot edit the path within PD, which is annoying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Comment By: SourceForge Robot (sf-robot)
Date: 2010-06-21 02:20
Message:
This Tracker item was closed automatically by the system. It was
previously set to a Pending status, and the original submitter
did not respond within 14 days (the time period specified by
the administrator of this Tracker).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Comment By: Hans-Christoph Steiner (eighthave)
Date: 2010-06-06 23:28
Message:
Oops, sorry about the typo...
I think parsing to the nearest good location could be nice, but too many
error messages gets confusing. I don't think this particular error message
would change the user's behavior, so it seems to fall on the "too much"
side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Comment By: Dan Wilcox (danomatika)
Date: 2010-06-06 22:44
Message:
Looks good, although you spelled my name wrong :D
Also, I added the console print for feedback as to why you'd be looking at
a dialog box in the home dir instead of the given path. Ideally, the bad
path should be parsed to find the nearest good location. For instance, if
the end folder name has been changed, the dialog box *should* start one
level down.
The current version is a quick fix so at least the editor is useable in
this case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Comment By: Hans-Christoph Steiner (eighthave)
Date: 2010-06-06 22:29
Message:
Accepted in an edited form, the error message seemed too much for such a
little thing. I also added it to 0.43 while I was at it. Here's the
commit:
http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data?view=rev&revision=136…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Comment By: Dan Wilcox (danomatika)
Date: 2010-06-05 16:06
Message:
I added PathEditor.patch for pd-tk which adds a check on existing paths
before editing them. If they don't exist, an error message is printed to
::pdwindow::error and the dialog path is set to the home dir.
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Hi,
I was hoping that pd-extended would be split into a core package
(containing the Extended pd) and modular external packages, but it
seems[1] that this has been postponed yet again until the next+1 release.
In case this becomes "jam tomorrow" forever, what can I do to guarantee
that the next+1 release does indeed contain modular packages, so that
users have the choice between Miller pd and Extended pd without having
to worry about whether externals are available?
[1] http://puredata.info/dev/NextRelease
Thanks,
Claude
Bugs item #3018175, was opened at 2010-06-18 21:15
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Category: pd-extended
Group: v0.42
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 5
Private: No
Submitted By: Domien Holthof (domxh)
Assigned to: Hans-Christoph Steiner (eighthave)
Summary: 0.42.5 extended rc4 asio problem
Initial Comment:
I've cleanly installed pd 0.42.5 extended rc4 (build from 17/6) on winxp32 sp2. Now when I choose my motu896 asio drivers in the asio dialog there's no sound anymore (using the test audio/midi patch). There's sound when i select the motu in the standard MMIO dialog. There were no warnings or error messages in the console when selecting the asio drivers.
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