OpenGL is deprecated but most likely will not removed for some years as there are far too many existing applications using it. The Carbon framework is still in macOS in bits and pieces because of this as well. My estimation is at least 5 years, probably more.
What will change is the immediate state model that the original OpenGL API used. Most of the functionality can be wrapped but GEM should basically transition to Vulkan (using the MoltenVK Metal wrapper for macOS) and use abstractions where possible instead of exposing the direct graphics API, otherwise the *next* graphics API change will require the same work, over and over again.
Also, if GEM was dead on macOS, there wouldn't be the AVFoundation plugins.
Yes, there will be a *lot* of work required and I suggest looking to pool resources in order to get a team together to consider doing it, but again, there are years before OpenGL will disappear.
On Mar 26, 2020, at 10:02 AM, gem-dev-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 12:47:06 -0400 From: "me.grimm" <megrimm@gmail.com mailto:megrimm@gmail.com> To: gem-dev <gem-dev@iem.at mailto:gem-dev@iem.at> Subject: [GEM-dev] GEM, OpenGL Depreciation and Metal on OSX Message-ID: <CACE5Q16LrFzDcuKJbjjRGJHW3J8kiUABm9D1SEc2mPmnYXdy3w@mail.gmail.com mailto:CACE5Q16LrFzDcuKJbjjRGJHW3J8kiUABm9D1SEc2mPmnYXdy3w@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hello,
Getting lots of OpenGL depreciation warnings compiling GEM. macOS is moving to its own Metal framework. I assume GEM will fail to run on macOS at some point.
What does this mean for GEM on macOS? Is GEM 'dead' on macs? Can it be transitioned with something like this: https://moltengl.com/ https://moltengl.com/ ? Do large parts need to be re-written? Is there any hope?
I would say for macOS users to just go use Ofelia. Unfortunately, the Ofelia learning curve seems very steep. For studio arts students that have never programed before, never knew they had interest in programing, and are learning the basics of creating interactive art, GEM offers very simple objects and a consistent visual programing workflow that allows them to transition from simple Pd Vanilla objects to GEM very easily. For them, patience is not always a strong suit so getting something working quickly sustains their interests much longer. Some of them even begin to use Pd/GEM combo in their daily practice.
This said, it would be a shame if 'GEM is dead' on macOS. But maybe this is an over reaction and the GEM future is bright.
m
-------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
My estimation is at least 5 years, probably more.
well this is good news. most of the depreciation warnings are beginning 10.14 although some state 10.9. i assume these will need a "fix" first and builds will start failing in less than 5 years?
will require the same work, over and over again.
yes this sounds horrible
there wouldn't be the AVFoundation plugins
yes thanks for the work you and johannes did on these. i think starting a roadmap is a good way for going forward. i remember the avfoundation plugins requiring a bit of time to pull together and get useable. i am imagining a large transition will also be a struggle.
Dan: what steps to get this started? might you have any interest in contributing? maybe suggestions of others that have interest?
my dev skills are obviously pretty limited and my memory is not the best so I spend a lot of time re-learning things. I CAN offer an artist residency for someone interested in devoting time to this. I do think it is pretty worthwhile.
cheers m
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:56 AM Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
OpenGL is deprecated but most likely will not removed for some years as there are far too many existing applications using it. The Carbon framework is still in macOS in bits and pieces because of this as well. My estimation is at least 5 years, probably more.
What will change is the immediate state model that the original OpenGL API used. Most of the functionality can be wrapped but GEM should basically transition to Vulkan (using the MoltenVK Metal wrapper for macOS) and use abstractions where possible instead of exposing the direct graphics API, otherwise the *next* graphics API change will require the same work, over and over again.
Also, if GEM was dead on macOS, there wouldn't be the AVFoundation plugins.
Yes, there will be a *lot* of work required and I suggest looking to pool resources in order to get a team together to consider doing it, but again, there are years before OpenGL will disappear.
On Mar 26, 2020, at 10:02 AM, gem-dev-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 12:47:06 -0400 From: "me.grimm" megrimm@gmail.com To: gem-dev gem-dev@iem.at Subject: [GEM-dev] GEM, OpenGL Depreciation and Metal on OSX Message-ID: CACE5Q16LrFzDcuKJbjjRGJHW3J8kiUABm9D1SEc2mPmnYXdy3w@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hello,
Getting lots of OpenGL depreciation warnings compiling GEM. macOS is moving to its own Metal framework. I assume GEM will fail to run on macOS at some point.
What does this mean for GEM on macOS? Is GEM 'dead' on macs? Can it be transitioned with something like this: https://moltengl.com/ ? Do large parts need to be re-written? Is there any hope?
I would say for macOS users to just go use Ofelia. Unfortunately, the Ofelia learning curve seems very steep. For studio arts students that have never programed before, never knew they had interest in programing, and are learning the basics of creating interactive art, GEM offers very simple objects and a consistent visual programing workflow that allows them to transition from simple Pd Vanilla objects to GEM very easily. For them, patience is not always a strong suit so getting something working quickly sustains their interests much longer. Some of them even begin to use Pd/GEM combo in their daily practice.
This said, it would be a shame if 'GEM is dead' on macOS. But maybe this is an over reaction and the GEM future is bright.
m
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
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Dan Wilcox -
me.grimm