Hi
It seems that since Pd 0.43 a Pd file does not save the window manager window position and size anymore (at least on linux), but instead the position and the size of the canvas, i.e. the white patching area.
This has some implications. Since window decorations (title bar, window borders) have different sizes/widths across different window managers, but even different sizes across certain themes of certain window managers, the patch window of a saved patch doesn't always appear at the position where it was saved. Even more, the next time the patch is saved and re-loaded, it's shifted again, etc.
I am usually running fluxbox and with my current theme, the offset is x: -3px y: -9px
With the Ubuntu Lucid default theme (Gnome), the offset is: x: -1px y: 0px
Can that be addressed somehow, or is it not possible from tcl/tk to know the properties of the window decorations?
In fluxbox, there is the side effect, that when xPos or yPos is negative, the window is drawn to the next window free area of the screen instead of the stored position.
Another new issue since 0.43 in fluxbox is, that a second instance of Pd is always opened on the workspace where the first instance is running. This wasn't the case with older versions of Pd (i.e.: it was possible to start a second instance of Pd in a new workspace.
Is anybody else experiencing similar issues and might have some ideas how to resolve this?
Cheers Roman
Its a tricky issue because its different which each window manager. So I think the best way to address it, in the short run at least, is for people to figure out the settings that work best with their window manager. I guess we should make it possible to set this stuff in a plugin, so any suggestions of how best to do that would be most appreciated.
.hc
On Jan 13, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
Hi
It seems that since Pd 0.43 a Pd file does not save the window manager window position and size anymore (at least on linux), but instead the position and the size of the canvas, i.e. the white patching area.
This has some implications. Since window decorations (title bar, window borders) have different sizes/widths across different window managers, but even different sizes across certain themes of certain window managers, the patch window of a saved patch doesn't always appear at the position where it was saved. Even more, the next time the patch is saved and re-loaded, it's shifted again, etc.
I am usually running fluxbox and with my current theme, the offset is x: -3px y: -9px
With the Ubuntu Lucid default theme (Gnome), the offset is: x: -1px y: 0px
Can that be addressed somehow, or is it not possible from tcl/tk to know the properties of the window decorations?
In fluxbox, there is the side effect, that when xPos or yPos is negative, the window is drawn to the next window free area of the screen instead of the stored position.
Another new issue since 0.43 in fluxbox is, that a second instance of Pd is always opened on the workspace where the first instance is running. This wasn't the case with older versions of Pd (i.e.: it was possible to start a second instance of Pd in a new workspace.
Is anybody else experiencing similar issues and might have some ideas how to resolve this?
Cheers Roman
Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Making boring techno music is really easy with modern tools, but with live coding, boring techno is much harder." - Chris McCormick
On Fri, 2011-01-21 at 17:04 -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Its a tricky issue because its different which each window manager. So I think the best way to address it, in the short run at least, is for people to figure out the settings that work best with their window manager. I guess we should make it possible to set this stuff in a plugin, so any suggestions of how best to do that would be most appreciated.
Ok. But why was it changed in the first place? Why not switching back to saving the actual window geometry (as opposed to the canvas geometry)? I mean, didn't that work well for Pd up to version 0.42?
Roman
On Jan 13, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
Hi
It seems that since Pd 0.43 a Pd file does not save the window manager window position and size anymore (at least on linux), but instead the position and the size of the canvas, i.e. the white patching area.
This has some implications. Since window decorations (title bar, window borders) have different sizes/widths across different window managers, but even different sizes across certain themes of certain window managers, the patch window of a saved patch doesn't always appear at the position where it was saved. Even more, the next time the patch is saved and re-loaded, it's shifted again, etc.
I am usually running fluxbox and with my current theme, the offset is x: -3px y: -9px
With the Ubuntu Lucid default theme (Gnome), the offset is: x: -1px y: 0px
Can that be addressed somehow, or is it not possible from tcl/tk to know the properties of the window decorations?
In fluxbox, there is the side effect, that when xPos or yPos is negative, the window is drawn to the next window free area of the screen instead of the stored position.
Another new issue since 0.43 in fluxbox is, that a second instance of Pd is always opened on the workspace where the first instance is running. This wasn't the case with older versions of Pd (i.e.: it was possible to start a second instance of Pd in a new workspace.
Is anybody else experiencing similar issues and might have some ideas how to resolve this?
Cheers Roman
Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
"Making boring techno music is really easy with modern tools, but with live coding, boring techno is much harder." - Chris McCormick
It was changed to work on GNOME/metacity, which is the default on Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, etc. So it is by far and away the most common. Since it is going to be different with each window manager, I think it makes sense to have the defaults work for the most people.
.hc
On Jan 21, 2011, at 5:56 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
Ok. But why was it changed in the first place? Why not switching back to saving the actual window geometry (as opposed to the canvas geometry)? I mean, didn't that work well for Pd up to version 0.42?
Roman
On Fri, 2011-01-21 at 17:04 -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Its a tricky issue because its different which each window manager. So I think the best way to address it, in the short run at least, is for people to figure out the settings that work best with their window manager. I guess we should make it possible to set this stuff in a plugin, so any suggestions of how best to do that would be most appreciated.
On Jan 13, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
Hi
It seems that since Pd 0.43 a Pd file does not save the window manager window position and size anymore (at least on linux), but instead the position and the size of the canvas, i.e. the white patching area.
This has some implications. Since window decorations (title bar, window borders) have different sizes/widths across different window managers, but even different sizes across certain themes of certain window managers, the patch window of a saved patch doesn't always appear at the position where it was saved. Even more, the next time the patch is saved and re-loaded, it's shifted again, etc.
I am usually running fluxbox and with my current theme, the offset is x: -3px y: -9px
With the Ubuntu Lucid default theme (Gnome), the offset is: x: -1px y: 0px
Can that be addressed somehow, or is it not possible from tcl/tk to know the properties of the window decorations?
In fluxbox, there is the side effect, that when xPos or yPos is negative, the window is drawn to the next window free area of the screen instead of the stored position.
Another new issue since 0.43 in fluxbox is, that a second instance of Pd is always opened on the workspace where the first instance is running. This wasn't the case with older versions of Pd (i.e.: it was possible to start a second instance of Pd in a new workspace.
Is anybody else experiencing similar issues and might have some ideas how to resolve this?
Cheers Roman
Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
"Making boring techno music is really easy with modern tools, but with live coding, boring techno is much harder." - Chris McCormick
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith
On 01/22/2011 12:02 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
It was changed to work on GNOME/metacity, which is the default on Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, etc. So it is by far and away the most common.
iirc, gnome is only widespread in the US, whereas europe (and esp. german speaking communities) used to favour KDE.
this if course it under constant flux, but i wanted to point out that "by far and away the most common" is a very subjective and usually point of view which i strive to avoid.
fgmadrs IOhannes
On Jan 22, 2011, at 8:11 AM, IOhannes zmölnig wrote:
On 01/22/2011 12:02 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
It was changed to work on GNOME/metacity, which is the default on Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, etc. So it is by far and away the most common.
iirc, gnome is only widespread in the US, whereas europe (and esp. german speaking communities) used to favour KDE.
this if course it under constant flux, but i wanted to point out that "by far and away the most common" is a very subjective and usually point of view which i strive to avoid.
fgmadrs IOhannes
Yes, this is based on my experience. According to Distrowatch http://distrowatch.com/ , these are the top 5 distros:
1 Ubuntu 2051> 2 Mint 1542> 3 Fedora 1452> 4 openSUSE 1131< 5 Debian 1109>
Of those, only openSUSE does not default to GNOME. Ubuntu is based in UK and most of the Mint team is based in Europe. From my experience teaching in Spain, France, Switzerland, and the UK, Ubuntu was the far and away the most common distro I encountered. Perhaps European Pd users don't usually use these distros but I have yet to hear from more than a handful of people who use other setups.
But really the point is that we should make the default work for the most common setup, and then enable plugins so people can taylor this setting to their own.
.hc
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All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated.... -John Donne
On Fri, 2011-01-21 at 18:02 -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
It was changed to work on GNOME/metacity, which is the default on Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, etc. So it is by far and away the most common. Since it is going to be different with each window manager, I think it makes sense to have the defaults work for the most people.
Didn't it work for everything before? Or am I even wrong in thinking that up to 0.42 Pd used to write the window geometry into the patch file and not the canvas geometry? Sorry to repeat myself: Why was it changed to storing the canvas geometry?
Roman
On Jan 21, 2011, at 5:56 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
Ok. But why was it changed in the first place? Why not switching back to saving the actual window geometry (as opposed to the canvas geometry)? I mean, didn't that work well for Pd up to version 0.42?
Roman
On Fri, 2011-01-21 at 17:04 -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Its a tricky issue because its different which each window manager. So I think the best way to address it, in the short run at least, is for people to figure out the settings that work best with their window manager. I guess we should make it possible to set this stuff in a plugin, so any suggestions of how best to do that would be most appreciated.
On Jan 13, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
Hi
It seems that since Pd 0.43 a Pd file does not save the window manager window position and size anymore (at least on linux), but instead the position and the size of the canvas, i.e. the white patching area.
This has some implications. Since window decorations (title bar, window borders) have different sizes/widths across different window managers, but even different sizes across certain themes of certain window managers, the patch window of a saved patch doesn't always appear at the position where it was saved. Even more, the next time the patch is saved and re-loaded, it's shifted again, etc.
I am usually running fluxbox and with my current theme, the offset is x: -3px y: -9px
With the Ubuntu Lucid default theme (Gnome), the offset is: x: -1px y: 0px
Can that be addressed somehow, or is it not possible from tcl/tk to know the properties of the window decorations?
In fluxbox, there is the side effect, that when xPos or yPos is negative, the window is drawn to the next window free area of the screen instead of the stored position.
Another new issue since 0.43 in fluxbox is, that a second instance of Pd is always opened on the workspace where the first instance is running. This wasn't the case with older versions of Pd (i.e.: it was possible to start a second instance of Pd in a new workspace.
Is anybody else experiencing similar issues and might have some ideas how to resolve this?
Cheers Roman
Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
"Making boring techno music is really easy with modern tools, but with live coding, boring techno is much harder." - Chris McCormick
Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith
-
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
IOhannes zmölnig -
Roman Haefeli