hi,
TL;DR could we bump the minimum TclTk version to 8.6 (for consistencies sake)?
i wonder whether we could agree on a minimum Tcl/Tk version that Pd-GUI code has to be compatible with. The actual value does not matter so much, but whenever I write TclTk code, i would like to know which feature set I can actually use (and whether I actually do need to provide compat code for features that have been in a TclTk-version released 18 years ago)
so i did a quick check to see which TclTk versions are actually shipped in the binary packages on miller's site.
for the Pd-0.55-2 release the TclTk versions are:
- Windows/i386: 8.5.19 - Windows/amd64: 8.6.10 - macOS/amd64+arm64: 8.6.13 - (no linux binaries; i think virtually all linux distributions ship TclTk-8.6 these days, with TclTk-9.0 arriving)
those are just the mainstream architectures. there are also: - OSX/ppc: 8.4.7 - OSX/i386: 8.5.19
However, the last OSX/ppc package on miller's page is Pd-0.51-0, and the last OSX/i386 package is Pd-0.53-1.
(a more detailed report on which TclTk version is used for which Pd download, can be found at https://zmoelnig.iem.sh/post/tclpd/
Is it correct to assume, that there is no longer any demand for OSX/ppc and OSX/i386 binaries, and therefore nobody will go into the trouble and build a newer version of Pd for these platforms?
If so, we can simply assume that any modern Pd will at least have TclTk-8.5 available.
Since then there's only a single platform left that actually uses TclTk-8.5 (that is: Windows/i386), I would like to suggest to bump it to TclTk-8.6 and thus use the same version for all systems¹.
(I know that TclTk-9.0 cannot be build for any OSX-system that supports i386; i'm pretty sure that we cannot build Tcl-8.6 on PPC and probably not on i386 either)
I guess I could do a PR to update the msw/pdprototype.tgz.
but during my survey I noticed that the Windows packages available on miller's website actually do not use the pdprototype.tgz at all but instead ship with a TclTk that was built locally on miller's linux box...
mgfasdr IOhannes
¹ of course there is now TclTk-9.x! but we probably should wait first until the major bugs got fixed, both on the TclTk side and on the Pd-GUI side :-)
Hmmm... OK, I think it's time to let Windows i386 rest in peace... so yes, let's require Tcl/TK 8.6 or up.
cheers Miller
On 1/21/25 3:54 PM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
hi,
TL;DR could we bump the minimum TclTk version to 8.6 (for consistencies sake)?
i wonder whether we could agree on a minimum Tcl/Tk version that Pd-GUI code has to be compatible with. The actual value does not matter so much, but whenever I write TclTk code, i would like to know which feature set I can actually use (and whether I actually do need to provide compat code for features that have been in a TclTk-version released 18 years ago)
so i did a quick check to see which TclTk versions are actually shipped in the binary packages on miller's site.
for the Pd-0.55-2 release the TclTk versions are:
- Windows/i386: 8.5.19
- Windows/amd64: 8.6.10
- macOS/amd64+arm64: 8.6.13
- (no linux binaries; i think virtually all linux distributions ship
TclTk-8.6 these days, with TclTk-9.0 arriving)
those are just the mainstream architectures. there are also:
- OSX/ppc: 8.4.7
- OSX/i386: 8.5.19
However, the last OSX/ppc package on miller's page is Pd-0.51-0, and the last OSX/i386 package is Pd-0.53-1.
(a more detailed report on which TclTk version is used for which Pd download, can be found at https://zmoelnig.iem.sh/post/tclpd/
Is it correct to assume, that there is no longer any demand for OSX/ppc and OSX/i386 binaries, and therefore nobody will go into the trouble and build a newer version of Pd for these platforms?
If so, we can simply assume that any modern Pd will at least have TclTk-8.5 available.
Since then there's only a single platform left that actually uses TclTk-8.5 (that is: Windows/i386), I would like to suggest to bump it to TclTk-8.6 and thus use the same version for all systems¹.
(I know that TclTk-9.0 cannot be build for any OSX-system that supports i386; i'm pretty sure that we cannot build Tcl-8.6 on PPC and probably not on i386 either)
I guess I could do a PR to update the msw/pdprototype.tgz.
but during my survey I noticed that the Windows packages available on miller's website actually do not use the pdprototype.tgz at all but instead ship with a TclTk that was built locally on miller's linux box...
mgfasdr IOhannes
¹ of course there is now TclTk-9.x! but we probably should wait first until the major bugs got fixed, both on the TclTk side and on the Pd-GUI side :-)
pd-dev@lists.iem.at - the Pd developers' mailinglist https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-dev@lists.iem.at/message/TVBBBKUZGXX...
Sounds good to me! There is no reason for using a 32-bit version of Pd in 2025. (There might be some old externals that haven't been ported to amd64, but the solution is, of course, to update those externals and upload them to Deken.)
I guess I could do a PR to update the msw/pdprototype.tgz.
but during my survey I noticed that the Windows packages available on miller's website actually do not use the pdprototype.tgz at all but instead ship with a TclTk that was built locally on miller's linux box...
Yes, please!!
That has been quite annoying becauce I always have to remember to override "WISH" and copy the Tcl/Tk 8.6 binaries (built from source) to get the same look as the official Pd.
It would be very nice if I could just type "./configure && make" and get a working Pd with Tcl/Tk 8.6 :)
Christof
On 21.01.2025 16:08, Miller Puckette via Pd-dev wrote:
Hmmm... OK, I think it's time to let Windows i386 rest in peace... so yes, let's require Tcl/TK 8.6 or up.
cheers Miller
On 1/21/25 3:54 PM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
hi,
TL;DR could we bump the minimum TclTk version to 8.6 (for consistencies sake)?
i wonder whether we could agree on a minimum Tcl/Tk version that Pd-GUI code has to be compatible with. The actual value does not matter so much, but whenever I write TclTk code, i would like to know which feature set I can actually use (and whether I actually do need to provide compat code for features that have been in a TclTk-version released 18 years ago)
so i did a quick check to see which TclTk versions are actually shipped in the binary packages on miller's site.
for the Pd-0.55-2 release the TclTk versions are:
- Windows/i386: 8.5.19
- Windows/amd64: 8.6.10
- macOS/amd64+arm64: 8.6.13
- (no linux binaries; i think virtually all linux distributions ship
TclTk-8.6 these days, with TclTk-9.0 arriving)
those are just the mainstream architectures. there are also:
- OSX/ppc: 8.4.7
- OSX/i386: 8.5.19
However, the last OSX/ppc package on miller's page is Pd-0.51-0, and the last OSX/i386 package is Pd-0.53-1.
(a more detailed report on which TclTk version is used for which Pd download, can be found at https://zmoelnig.iem.sh/post/tclpd/
Is it correct to assume, that there is no longer any demand for OSX/ppc and OSX/i386 binaries, and therefore nobody will go into the trouble and build a newer version of Pd for these platforms?
If so, we can simply assume that any modern Pd will at least have TclTk-8.5 available.
Since then there's only a single platform left that actually uses TclTk-8.5 (that is: Windows/i386), I would like to suggest to bump it to TclTk-8.6 and thus use the same version for all systems¹.
(I know that TclTk-9.0 cannot be build for any OSX-system that supports i386; i'm pretty sure that we cannot build Tcl-8.6 on PPC and probably not on i386 either)
I guess I could do a PR to update the msw/pdprototype.tgz.
but during my survey I noticed that the Windows packages available on miller's website actually do not use the pdprototype.tgz at all but instead ship with a TclTk that was built locally on miller's linux box...
mgfasdr IOhannes
¹ of course there is now TclTk-9.x! but we probably should wait first until the major bugs got fixed, both on the TclTk side and on the Pd-GUI side :-)
--- pd-dev@lists.iem.at - the Pd developers' mailinglist https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-dev@lists.iem.at/message/TVBBBKUZGXX...
pd-dev@lists.iem.at - the Pd developers' mailinglist https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-dev@lists.iem.at/message/U64QTLJYHZS...
(re-sending to pd-dev, instead of just miller... Mobile phones suck)
Am 21. Jänner 2025 16:08:44 MEZ schrieb Miller Puckette via Pd-dev pd-dev@lists.iem.at:
Hmmm... OK, I think it's time to let Windows i386 rest in peace... so yes, let's require Tcl/TK 8.6 or up.
[...]
On 1/21/25 3:54 PM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
(I know that TclTk-9.0 cannot be build for any OSX-system that supports i386; i'm pretty sure that we cannot build Tcl-8.6 on PPC and probably not on i386 either)
Note that I did not actually suggest to drop support for Windows/i386, only OSX/i386.
I see that my remark about not being able to build Tcl/Tk-8.6 on (OSX) i386 could be read as "Tcl/Tk is not compatible with i386 in general", which I don't think is true (I was able to build Tcl/Tk-9.0.1 on Windows/i386 just the other day).
Having said that, I'm fine with dropping Windows/i386 :-)
mfg.sfg.jfd IOhannes