SourceForge also has Subversion we can use. I think we all agreed in the past that the SourceForge repository would be the best one for now.

As for the transition, its going to be a lot of work. I think the only thing preventing it from happening is someone taking the lead on that project. Its yours if you want it.

.hc

On Aug 11, 2006, at 8:15 PM, Luke Iannini (pd) wrote:

Speaking of trick CVS commands, are there any plans to transition to Subversion any time soon? : ) I'd be happy to help out... http://code.google.com/ is Subversion based (see Project Hosting).

On 8/10/06, Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org wrote:

...

I just thought of a side benefit of the auto-build system. You can now easily download a snapshot of the complete source for MAIN, pd- devel, and pd-extended:

rsync -av rsync://128.238.56.50/distros/pd-devel/ pd-devel/

rsync -av rsync://128.238.56.50/distros/pd-extended/ pd-extended/

rsync -av rsync://128.238.56.50/distros/pd-main/ pd-main/

This is not so important on MAIN, but with devel and extended, it simplifies things because you don't have to use tricky cvs commands.

.hc

---

---

Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra

---

PD-dev mailing list PD-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev

------------------------------------------------------------------------

As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin

Hallo, carmen hat gesagt: // carmen wrote:

why is it going to be a lot of work? i recently converted all my projects to git - just a matter typing 'git-svnimport /var/svn'. theres also a git-cvsimport, which i haven't tried, but is presumably just as simple since SVN is just CVS with a few annoyance fixes. every last commit was retained, down to the tags and log messages, all with no effort on my part. free software can be great..

Technically going from CVS to SVN is no problem, socially however it is. One reason *is* the already huge number of developers, so it probably is only possible to do it step by step, like for example first convert the "abstractions" directory to SVN, because it doesn't have many dependencies to other parts of the tree (like no g_canvas.h to #include etc.)

Then maybe flext-externals could walk over, as they aren't a part of the Build-system yet anyways and there are only a handful of developers using flext, many of them like Thomas and I are already using subversion for managing their stuff as far as it's outside of Sourceforge. flext needs some Pd headers, those could be copied over as well.

I'm a bit unsure how to go on with Pd itself. In some recent mails Miller talked a bit about his problems keeping his source tree in sync with the CVS, so just telling him: "You have to switch to yet another system" may be a bit unfriendly.

However I believe Miller's problems with CVS are very similar to the problems I had with CVS all the time and which I could never solve inside CVS, but they were solved automatically since I use Subversion.

One simple example is, that Subversion is much more forgiving when it comes to "accidents" like creating a directory you didn't want to create. With subversion, you can just delete it, with CVS even such a simple task is a big hassle. Also renaming, moving and tagging is much easier with Subversion.

Ciao

Hallo, Miller Puckette hat gesagt: // Miller Puckette wrote:

Yep... I could switch to subversion easily at any time...

Now that's a word!! ;)

the hassle is going to be getting the entire CVS repository moved over somehow, and I'd guess the only practical way to do it would be a wholesale move, all at once, so that people don't get stuck trying to keep up with both simultaneously. I think it would be important to get everyone who actively maintains stuff in CVS to agree on when and how it should get moved over.

Well, maybe that's the best approach because it is the most simple and "stupid" one (stupid in a good sense).

Oh yes, subversion versus git? Well, I don't know if sourceforge supports git, but if they do, that might be the way to go.

AFAIK they don't support git. I've never used git in a project, and actually I don't think, many people here, or even anyone here, has used git already. However many have used Subversion, so that would be the least risky route.

Maybe we could do two things:

First form a SVN Task Force of developers that research how converting the repository works technically by reading up the SF documents and do the general planning including some test conversions. I guess, most of the repository can be converted easily as there aren't many branches in use. The Pd sources can be a bit tricky technically because of MAIN, devel, etc., setting permissions etc. but this has all been done by other projects in the past.

Then what's left is the social part: We need to make everyone aware of the upcoming move, freeze the repo for a certain time, do the conversion and test it. I would suggest to not do any bigger reorganization of the directory layout in this phase, as moving stuff around becomes much easier, once we actually run on SVN.

Well, and then we just need to change a lot of links on puredata.info. Ideally, that is.

Ciao

Hallo, Mathieu Bouchard hat gesagt: // Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

no, it's because all directories switching at the same time means more developers switching at the same time which means more developers able to help each other with it, supposing that every developer is learning SVN at the last minute.

CVS-users can learn the basics of SVN in one minute. But of course what you say is one more reason to do a complete switch.

...

freeze the repo for a certain time,

how long?

How should I know? You're the one with the crystal ball! ;)

With "freezing" I mean a time span where no developer is allowed to commit anything, so we can do a clean cut. I guess this time span will be something between 1 hour and 1 day.

Ciao

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006, carmen wrote:

why is the Sourceforge repository best?

Because it's the most known name. It's a matter of marketing. Just ask your PHB. (But seriously: since when do these alternatives to SF exist? When did Pd's CVS start? How much work is it to make a switch?)

but is presumably just as simple since SVN is just CVS with a few annoyance fixes.

SVN doesn't have branches in the CVS sense of the word: they have to be replaced by more directories. I don't call this an annoyance fix. (and SVN people call it a feature)

so the main people to ask would be Mathieu and Chun working on DesireData, and HCS working on builds and documentation.

Don't underestimate the high number of externals. After all there are 55 registered Pd developers in SF.net. However, it might be true that DesireData might be the project that uses the most CVS because a large part of the communication between team members is done through CVS (most of rest is done through IRC).

we already know Miller doesn't like CVS..

It's not that he doesn't like CVS, I mean, he wouldn't like SVN nor any other. What Miller wants is to work alone and then make releases as zip files.

_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada