I cc'ed pd-dev since others might be interested...
Where can I get your PGP key? I haven't found it and I get an error every time I read one of your emails.
On Feb 7, 2005, at 3:59 PM, B. Bogart wrote:
Hey guys,
The whole pd.app thing still has me very confused.
Hans, are you using tcl/tk 8.4.9 in your installer? Perhaps I should use this as the basis of the pixelTANGO stand-alone rather than millers 0.38-2.
The last .app I put out was directly based on Millers, so it used the same version of Tcl/Tk as his. I haven't played with compiled Pd.app with other Tcl/Tk versions. I plan on working on a new version of Pd.app in about a month, once I get past all of my February deadlines. But instead of making a separate pixelTANGO .app, I think we should work to getting pixelTANGO as part of the .app build system, so its part of the CVS build.
(Hans, it seems the at.or.at domain is currently down)
Its back. (D'oh! forgot to pay the bills)
Ok I've checked out the packages .app assembler.
I had to edit the makefile to point at my pd sources. (please note that in the "patches" section the files to patch are not called via the PD_FILE_ROOT variable. Also I had to put absolute pathnames on the patch files for the makefile to find them.)
I removed the --enable jack part but now the compile fails at linking, still looking for the jack symbols. I can't find any reference to jack being linked in the makefile. How can I disable jack?
I think I'm getting closer... slowly...
I would really like to get a pd.app using tcl/tk 8.4.9 working!!! It should not be so difficult. :( the .app thing sure makes it easier for users, but damn a developer headache.
For pixelTANGO.app I've decided I'm going to do something like:
/Applications/pixelTANGO/PD.app /Applications/pixelTANGO/PD.app/[.app crap in here] /Applications/pixelTANGO/extra [links to the one inside .app] /Applications/pixelTANGO/help [ditto] /Applications/pixelTANGO/fonts [ditto] /Applications/pixelTANGO/models [ditto] /Applications/pixelTANGO/abstractions [ditto]
I see three options in the future for installers
- all the pixelTANGO stuff ends up working in hans's installer
Yea! One common Pd platform please! But I think it can hardly be called "Hans' installer" anymore, a number of other people have contributed substantially to it, including Gerard Roma and Miller Puckette.
AFAIK, pixelTANGO is a collection of Pd patches, so it should definitely be not too difficult to incorporate into the CVS build system.
.hc
- the pixelTANGO installer ends up pulling in more of the visual
emphasis to give us two packagers, the "visual" package and the "audio" package. 3. they remain seperate and never speak.
Whats your preference Hans?
Jamie: did you end up compiling the .app with your tcl/tk version?
Thanks guys,
B>
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Sep 3, 2004, at 9:51 AM, James Tittle II wrote:
...just a short note: even though it's based on 8.4.4, out of total curiousity I just ran the ol' "testQuartz.pd" patch...under quickdraw, it used to be a big cpu hog, but now it's not? The new packaged pd.app shows up as Pd and pd in top, and neither of them seem to break 10% cpu on my machine, even with all the counters going!
...otoh, I just built 0.38-0test4 from source, this time against 8.5, and for one thing it doesn't auto assemble the pd.app...so, ya have to launch from cmdline, and that just uses wish shell again, which is also back to it's huge cpu usage :-(
Big question: is the pd.app packaging code going to be included in the makefile?
Its based on what's in the CVS in packages/darwin_app. Hopefully, Miller's changes will soon be merged in. You need to use the Tcl/Tk Standalone Wish Shell.app to build it. So in order to build an 8.5 version, you'll have to make an 8.5 Wish Shell.app standalone that has the Frameworks included. .hc ______________________________________________________________________ __ ____ "Information wants to be free." -Stewart Brand _______________________________________________ PD-dev mailing list PD-dev@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-dev
________________________________________________________________________ ____
There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste
Hi Hans,
The last .app I put out was directly based on Millers, so it used the same version of Tcl/Tk as his. I haven't played with compiled Pd.app with other Tcl/Tk versions. I plan on working on a new version of Pd.app in about a month, once I get past all of my February deadlines. But instead of making a separate pixelTANGO .app, I think we should work to getting pixelTANGO as part of the .app build system, so its part of the CVS build.
Ok, Other than the much-more efficient graphics stuff that Jamie put in, and anti-aliasing I don't think there is a big difference between 8.4.4 and 8.4.9 (though actually when we draw a object box before it becomes an "object", no name has been entered, the box is drawn with fancy dashed lines, very nice actually.)
I need a pixelTANGO.app by the start of March to teach a workshop. Other than this I agree that we should have one installer that includes all major PD contributions. :)
Ok there are a few things about pixelTANGO that will change the structure of the pd.app. (for the good I hope). Also I hope the packes for Windows end up the same so that our user-experience is the same accross platforms. the /Applications/ subfolder should be folder inside the Pure-Data listing in the start-menu.
I propose we create a folder in /Applications called Pure-Data. On windows this folder should be inside the Pure-Data listing in the start-menu. Inside this folder we have:
Pure-Data.app abstractions extra help doc examples
The abstractions folder is either symlink to the abstractions folder inside the .app, or it could be a second "user-land" abstractions folder for people to dump in thier own stuff. (stuff not included in the .app) Same options work for the extra folder. Is there a benifit of exposing the PD-included externals, like fiddle~, outside of the .app? How should the abstractions be organized? One giant unweildly list of all abstractions or something more organized? The "help" folder could be a link to 5.reference. The reason to expose this is so its easy for the newbie to install help files for abstractions not included in the installer. Also its handy to take a look at the list of help files to get a handle on what the objects they can use are. "doc" just points to the non-interactive documentation (PDF stuff). "examples" points to all the interactive documentation, for audio and for other libs, like Gem and pixelTANGO example patches. The new "help" menu will then also automatically grab any new example patches. I think we need to change the structure of this since the current structure does not allow external examples to fit in anywhere except the 5.reference folder. Maybe: (Note there are NO numbers prepended)
Control-Examples Audio-Examples FFT-Examples Object-Reference externs (needed?) Gem-Examples PDP-Examples pixelTANGO-Examples
in addition to these exposed PD folders pixelTANGO also would depend on a couple others like perhaps:
Pure-Data/pixelTANGO/fonts Pure-Data/pixelTANGO/models Pure-Data/pixelTANGO/fx
Would this be a natural place for library-specific directories?
Feedback?
Yea! One common Pd platform please! But I think it can hardly be called "Hans' installer" anymore, a number of other people have contributed substantially to it, including Gerard Roma and Miller Puckette.
AFAIK, pixelTANGO is a collection of Pd patches, so it should definitely be not too difficult to incorporate into the CVS build system.
I still can't get the .app build system to work... A user-guide that includes what needs to be where would be amazing... I did not even know that Jack run on OSX, what is the benifit of using jack on OSX? Can someone suggest how I can use the .app build without jack? even after removing --enable-jack from the makefile pd still fails to link due to missing jack symbols.. :(
I figured each of the cvs modules need to put along side one and other for the .app build to find everything. (including pd next to externals and packages)
As for PGP I'm using enigmail on thunderbird and not looked carefully at it. What error are you getting? I'll send my key in a private message.
Thanks Hans. B.
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I cc'ed pd-dev since others might be interested...
Where can I get your PGP key? I haven't found it and I get an error every time I read one of your emails.
On Feb 7, 2005, at 3:59 PM, B. Bogart wrote:
Hey guys,
The whole pd.app thing still has me very confused.
Hans, are you using tcl/tk 8.4.9 in your installer? Perhaps I should use this as the basis of the pixelTANGO stand-alone rather than millers 0.38-2.
(Hans, it seems the at.or.at domain is currently down)
Its back. (D'oh! forgot to pay the bills)
Ok I've checked out the packages .app assembler.
I had to edit the makefile to point at my pd sources. (please note that in the "patches" section the files to patch are not called via the PD_FILE_ROOT variable. Also I had to put absolute pathnames on the patch files for the makefile to find them.)
I removed the --enable jack part but now the compile fails at linking, still looking for the jack symbols. I can't find any reference to jack being linked in the makefile. How can I disable jack?
I think I'm getting closer... slowly...
I would really like to get a pd.app using tcl/tk 8.4.9 working!!! It should not be so difficult. :( the .app thing sure makes it easier for users, but damn a developer headache.
For pixelTANGO.app I've decided I'm going to do something like:
/Applications/pixelTANGO/PD.app /Applications/pixelTANGO/PD.app/[.app crap in here] /Applications/pixelTANGO/extra [links to the one inside .app] /Applications/pixelTANGO/help [ditto] /Applications/pixelTANGO/fonts [ditto] /Applications/pixelTANGO/models [ditto] /Applications/pixelTANGO/abstractions [ditto]
I see three options in the future for installers
- all the pixelTANGO stuff ends up working in hans's installer
Yea! One common Pd platform please! But I think it can hardly be called "Hans' installer" anymore, a number of other people have contributed substantially to it, including Gerard Roma and Miller Puckette.
AFAIK, pixelTANGO is a collection of Pd patches, so it should definitely be not too difficult to incorporate into the CVS build system.
.hc
- the pixelTANGO installer ends up pulling in more of the visual
emphasis to give us two packagers, the "visual" package and the "audio" package. 3. they remain seperate and never speak.
Whats your preference Hans?
Jamie: did you end up compiling the .app with your tcl/tk version?
Thanks guys,
B>
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Sep 3, 2004, at 9:51 AM, James Tittle II wrote:
...just a short note: even though it's based on 8.4.4, out of total curiousity I just ran the ol' "testQuartz.pd" patch...under quickdraw, it used to be a big cpu hog, but now it's not? The new packaged pd.app shows up as Pd and pd in top, and neither of them seem to break 10% cpu on my machine, even with all the counters going!
...otoh, I just built 0.38-0test4 from source, this time against 8.5, and for one thing it doesn't auto assemble the pd.app...so, ya have to launch from cmdline, and that just uses wish shell again, which is also back to it's huge cpu usage :-(
Big question: is the pd.app packaging code going to be included in the makefile?
Its based on what's in the CVS in packages/darwin_app. Hopefully, Miller's changes will soon be merged in. You need to use the Tcl/Tk Standalone Wish Shell.app to build it. So in order to build an 8.5 version, you'll have to make an 8.5 Wish Shell.app standalone that has the Frameworks included. .hc ______________________________________________________________________ __ ____ "Information wants to be free." -Stewart Brand _______________________________________________ PD-dev mailing list PD-dev@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-dev
There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste
PD-dev mailing list PD-dev@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-dev
-
B. Bogart -
Hans-Christoph Steiner