Oops, still getting used to the microscopic phone keyboard...
BTW if this thing is top-posting, my apologies. It appears the droid leaves me no choice here :-(
So, what I was trying to say is that there are two issues at hand here that are mistakenly being interpreted as one.
Pd.tk in and of itself has not been submitted for inclusion, but (as per your request) as a means to test new scrolling method. And while the pd.tk in question has a wrapper in place to allow use on both <8.4 and >=8.5 it has not been fully tested nor fully implemented for non-linux platforms. Hene if you wish to test it out as I indicated before, you either need to test it on linux or use updated replacement function in your existing pd.tk I sent out in my earlier email. Reporting any failures of it running otherwise is imho irrelevant to the scrolling algorithm.
So, may I suggest that for the sake of clarity, let us not discuss any potential inclusion of pd.tk in this thread, as that clouds the matter at hand which is the scrolling algorithm.
Cheers!
Ivica Ico Bukvic ico@vt.edu wrote:
I think we are confusing two things here, the whole pd.tk which does offer
On Fri, 27 Nov 2009, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
It appears the droid leaves me no choice here :-(
the droids have won. humanity must surrender control.
« I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out how to use my telephone. » -- Bjarne Stroustrup
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801
Please make either a diff/patch with only the scrolling stuff in it, or a version of the pd.tk with only the scrolling changes. If we are talking about the scrolling algorithm, then we should only be talking about that code, not ttk and other things that have nothing to do with scrolling.
.hc
On Nov 27, 2009, at 4:21 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
Oops, still getting used to the microscopic phone keyboard...
BTW if this thing is top-posting, my apologies. It appears the droid leaves me no choice here :-(
So, what I was trying to say is that there are two issues at hand here that are mistakenly being interpreted as one.
Pd.tk in and of itself has not been submitted for inclusion, but (as per your request) as a means to test new scrolling method. And while the pd.tk in question has a wrapper in place to allow use on both <8.4 and >=8.5 it has not been fully tested nor fully implemented for non-linux platforms. Hene if you wish to test it out as I indicated before, you either need to test it on linux or use updated replacement function in your existing pd.tk I sent out in my earlier email. Reporting any failures of it running otherwise is imho irrelevant to the scrolling algorithm.
So, may I suggest that for the sake of clarity, let us not discuss any potential inclusion of pd.tk in this thread, as that clouds the matter at hand which is the scrolling algorithm.
Cheers!
Ivica Ico Bukvic ico@vt.edu wrote:
I think we are confusing two things here, the whole pd.tk which does offer
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"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity." -John Gilmore
Please make either a diff/patch with only the scrolling stuff in it, or a version of the pd.tk with only the scrolling changes. If we are talking about the scrolling algorithm, then we should only be talking about that code, not ttk and other things that have nothing to do with scrolling.
I did on several occasions, albeit as a replacement function in pd.tk. It should be a matter of a simple copy/paste. I believe you even implemented it as a Pd 0.43 plug-in. Please see my previous emails.
Ico
On Nov 28, 2009, at 11:35 AM, ico@vt.edu wrote:
Please make either a diff/patch with only the scrolling stuff in it, or a version of the pd.tk with only the scrolling changes. If we are talking about the scrolling algorithm, then we should only be talking about that code, not ttk and other things that have nothing to do with scrolling.
I did on several occasions, albeit as a replacement function in pd.tk. It should be a matter of a simple copy/paste. I believe you even implemented it as a Pd 0.43 plug-in. Please see my previous emails.
Ico
Hey Ico,
I have been trying what you have been posting, but I haven't found a clean patch or pd.tk.. The standard format for submitting code to most open source projects is a "diff -uw" patch. That's the best way to submit them if you want people to be able to read them, try them, make sense of them, etc. Check the patches in the patch tracker for examples. I find the easiest way to generate patches is to use "svn diff"
.hc
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kill your television
I have been trying what you have been posting, but I haven't found a clean patch or pd.tk.. The standard format for submitting code to most open source projects is a "diff -uw" patch. That's the best way to submit them if you want people to be able to read them, try them, make sense of them, etc. Check the patches in the patch tracker for examples. I find the easiest way to generate patches is to use "svn diff"
please see attached patch. it applies cleanly against 0.41.4 extended as well as 0.42.5 extended.
ico
On Nov 28, 2009, at 11:14 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
I have been trying what you have been posting, but I haven't found a clean patch or pd.tk.. The standard format for submitting code to most open source projects is a "diff -uw" patch. That's the best way to submit them if you want people to be able to read them, try them, make sense of them, etc. Check the patches in the patch tracker for examples. I find the easiest way to generate patches is to use "svn diff"
please see attached patch. it applies cleanly against 0.41.4 extended as well as 0.42.5 extended.
ico
<patch>
It works for me Pd-extended 0.42.5-20091112, thanks for that. Sorry for the delay, its been a busy week. Two things I tried:
- like the current Pd-extended scroll logic, scrolling with the wheel moves the patch when there are no scrollbars, except it'll scroll the patch contents out of the visible area and not add scrollbars.
- resizing the window doesn't seem to track comments, I tried 3.audio.examples/A02.amplitude.pd, the scrollbars don't kick in until I cover the objects. the comments don't seem to affect the scrollbars.
Scrollbars are a pain...
.hc
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I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds, and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
please see attached patch. it applies cleanly against 0.41.4 extended as well as 0.42.5 extended.
ico
<patch>
It works for me Pd-extended 0.42.5-20091112, thanks for that. Sorry for the delay, its been a busy week. Two things I tried:
- like the current Pd-extended scroll logic, scrolling with the wheel
moves the patch when there are no scrollbars, except it'll scroll the patch contents out of the visible area and not add scrollbars.
I've not touched this part. This is simply how 0.42.5 does scrolling in respect to the mouse wheel so I would say this part has nothing to do with my patch...
- resizing the window doesn't seem to track comments, I tried
3.audio.examples/A02.amplitude.pd, the scrollbars don't kick in until I cover the objects. the comments don't seem to affect the scrollbars.
I realized this earlier last week as well. This is because I am omitting text in manually calculating bbox to avoid redundant scrollbars which are apparent in all other versions, particularly when using number boxes with larger fonts. I think it would be a good idea to report your experience on this one: namely whether you are getting the same results in this respect so that we have this also covered as part of the algorithm's assessment.
That said, I thought a bit about this and I think text can be added in two different ways:
1) by creating an invisible box around them (not sure if canvas supports this) or if there is already one identifying it in the manual bbox calculation.
2) trying to figure out what is the font scaling discrepancy and applying that number to text (once again inside manual bbox calculation since that is the only place you could do so on an individual basis such as this one).
Best wishes,
Ico
On Dec 4, 2009, at 7:56 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
please see attached patch. it applies cleanly against 0.41.4 extended as well as 0.42.5 extended.
ico
<patch>
It works for me Pd-extended 0.42.5-20091112, thanks for that. Sorry for the delay, its been a busy week. Two things I tried:
- like the current Pd-extended scroll logic, scrolling with the wheel
moves the patch when there are no scrollbars, except it'll scroll the patch contents out of the visible area and not add scrollbars.
I've not touched this part. This is simply how 0.42.5 does scrolling in respect to the mouse wheel so I would say this part has nothing to do with my patch...
Ah, ok, didn't realize you weren't changing that. IMHO, if we are going to look at scrolling, we need to look at the whole picture. This is bad behavior that should be fixed. That's why I started this dev wiki page, to make a catalog of the whole picture:
http://puredata.info/dev/ScrollBarLogic
- resizing the window doesn't seem to track comments, I tried
3.audio.examples/A02.amplitude.pd, the scrollbars don't kick in until I cover the objects. the comments don't seem to affect the scrollbars.
I realized this earlier last week as well. This is because I am omitting text in manually calculating bbox to avoid redundant scrollbars which are apparent in all other versions, particularly when using number boxes with larger fonts. I think it would be a good idea to report your experience on this one: namely whether you are getting the same results in this respect so that we have this also covered as part of the algorithm's assessment.
That said, I thought a bit about this and I think text can be added in two different ways:
- by creating an invisible box around them (not sure if canvas
supports this) or if there is already one identifying it in the manual bbox calculation.
- trying to figure out what is the font scaling discrepancy and
applying that number to text (once again inside manual bbox calculation since that is the only place you could do so on an individual basis such as this one).
What was the problem with using Tcl/Tk's bbox calculations? It'll get the comments automatically, IIRC.
.hc
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Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute. - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
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Hans-Christoph Steiner -
ico＠vt.edu -
Ivica Ico Bukvic
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Mathieu Bouchard