On Oct 26, 2011, at 4:39 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Wed, 2011-10-26 at 01:15 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Oct 25, 2011, at 9:47 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Fri, 2011-10-21 at 18:36 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Pd vanilla still has different box sizes on different platforms, if I remember correctly, therefore the sizes will have to change somewhere.
I made a little test patch and took screenshots [1]. On three operating systems (Mac OS 10.6.4, Ubuntu 10.04, Windows 7) I tested Pd-extended-0.43.1 (from autobuilds) and Pd-0.43.1test4 (from Miller's site).
The results are contrary to what you are saying. For Pd-0.43.1test4 the box sizes are consistent across all tested platforms. For Pd-extended-0.43.1 the number, symbol, message and object boxes are 2 px less tall on Windows than on the other platforms. Due to this, only on Windows number and symbol boxes have the same height in Pd-vanilla and Pd-extended (though message and object boxes are 2px smaller in Pd-extended than in Pd-vanilla).
On the other two platforms, Ubuntu 10.04 and OS X, number and symbol boxes are 2 px taller in Pd-extended than in Pd-vanilla.
The hsliders, vsliders and cnvs have the exact same dimensions in every tested combination. Also is the width of number, symbol, message and object boxes consistent across all tested platforms and flavors.
I tried to get these changes into vanilla, but I guess Miller didn't want them.
Currently, it looks like they are not necessary since the situation looks good for Pd-vanilla.
I've already spent a lot of time on it, so I've moved on since it works in Pd-extended. There should be a whole history of the discussion on pd-dev, i.e. the details of the issues. I don't remember them, I'm sure it was some annoying technical details.
Since only Pd-extended is not consistent across platforms, would that be reason enough to reconsider adapting Pd-extended to the symbol and number box height of Pd-vanilla?
Roman
Ok, I think I fixed it, at least it worked on my Windows XP test VM.
Cool!
I think it's not necessary to post this to the bug tracker then, right? Let me know, if you think otherwise.
No need, its fixed. Thanks for confirming :)
Basically, the code that was supposed to fit the font into the fixed box sizes was actually changing the box sizes. This commit now leaves the box sizes fixed so they are the same everywhere, then fits the font into the box.
http://pure-data.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=pure-data/pd-extended....
I'm guessing the different in Pd-vanilla comes from the different fonts that are in use, but it could be something else.
Just to be clear here:
In Pd-vanilla (0.43.1, at least) the _box sizes_ are consistent across all platforms. With your fix for Windows the same can be said for Pd-extended ;-).
So after all the situation does not look that bad, I would say.
Still, the remaining differences are:
- The symbol and number boxes are 2 px taller in Pd-extended than in
Pd-vanilla. I think it is not possible to adjust one or the other without breaking backwards compatibility of the respective flavor. So either Pd- vanilla and Pd-extended will stay different for eternity or one of them needs to bite into the sour apple. Since the latter only hurts once, I'd prefer to latter. And since Pd-extended is a derivative of Pd-vanilla, I'd say it's Pd-extended that has to bite into the sour apple. What do you think?
Pd-extended has been consistently sized since 0.39 and many people rely on that. I'm pretty sure that Pd-vanilla did not get consistent box sizes until 0.43, but I could be wrong. Here's some history on that topic, its the wiki I used to organize the box sizing effort for Pd-extended 0.39.
http://puredata.info/dev/GuiSizeDifferences
- The fonts in Pd-vanilla look quite different across platforms. The
situation is much better in Pd-extended, especially when the aliasing issue on Mac OS X will be resolved.
The aliasing is actually a bugfix. Pd-extended uses Monaco, which is a font designed to be not aliased. Previously Pd-extended was scaling it a bit, so it appeared aliased. Now it is no longer scaling the Monaco font, so it appears in Pd-extended just like it would another Cocoa app. Here's a pic of Pd-extended versus Apple TextEdit:
.hc
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On Wed, 2011-10-26 at 13:12 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Oct 26, 2011, at 4:39 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
- The symbol and number boxes are 2 px taller in Pd-extended than in
Pd-vanilla. I think it is not possible to adjust one or the other without breaking backwards compatibility of the respective flavor. So either Pd- vanilla and Pd-extended will stay different for eternity or one of them needs to bite into the sour apple. Since the latter only hurts once, I'd prefer to latter. And since Pd-extended is a derivative of Pd-vanilla, I'd say it's Pd-extended that has to bite into the sour apple. What do you think?
Pd-extended has been consistently sized since 0.39 and many people rely on that. I'm pretty sure that Pd-vanilla did not get consistent box sizes until 0.43, but I could be wrong. Here's some history on that topic, its the wiki I used to organize the box sizing effort for Pd-extended 0.39.
I checked again. It seems that at least since 0.36 number and symbol boxes have been 3 px (sorry, I was the whole time wrong with 2px) less tall than object boxes. It's Pd-extended who arbitrarily introduced to make them the same size. Also making it number and symbol boxes smaller won't likely break any existing patches, but make them uglier. Increasing the height will certainly break some GOP patches (as it does happen now when opening patches created in vanilla on extended).
See attached picture.
- The fonts in Pd-vanilla look quite different across platforms. The
situation is much better in Pd-extended, especially when the aliasing issue on Mac OS X will be resolved.
The aliasing is actually a bugfix. Pd-extended uses Monaco, which is a font designed to be not aliased. Previously Pd-extended was scaling it a bit, so it appeared aliased. Now it is no longer scaling the Monaco font, so it appears in Pd-extended just like it would another Cocoa app. Here's a pic of Pd-extended versus Apple TextEdit:
I see. Thanks for the info.
Roman
On Oct 27, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Wed, 2011-10-26 at 13:12 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Oct 26, 2011, at 4:39 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
- The symbol and number boxes are 2 px taller in Pd-extended than in
Pd-vanilla. I think it is not possible to adjust one or the other without breaking backwards compatibility of the respective flavor. So either Pd- vanilla and Pd-extended will stay different for eternity or one of them needs to bite into the sour apple. Since the latter only hurts once, I'd prefer to latter. And since Pd-extended is a derivative of Pd-vanilla, I'd say it's Pd-extended that has to bite into the sour apple. What do you think?
Pd-extended has been consistently sized since 0.39 and many people rely on that. I'm pretty sure that Pd-vanilla did not get consistent box sizes until 0.43, but I could be wrong. Here's some history on that topic, its the wiki I used to organize the box sizing effort for Pd-extended 0.39.
I checked again. It seems that at least since 0.36 number and symbol boxes have been 3 px (sorry, I was the whole time wrong with 2px) less tall than object boxes. It's Pd-extended who arbitrarily introduced to make them the same size. Also making it number and symbol boxes smaller won't likely break any existing patches, but make them uglier. Increasing the height will certainly break some GOP patches (as it does happen now when opening patches created in vanilla on extended).
See attached picture.
As far as I can see, it looks like objects and atom boxes were the same size in 0.34. My point is not that Pd-extended has a consistent size with any particular Pd-vanilla version. There were a lot of variations in sizes between versions, forks, and platforms. Pd- extended made the sizes the same for all Pd-extended versions on all platforms.
.hc
- The fonts in Pd-vanilla look quite different across platforms. The
situation is much better in Pd-extended, especially when the aliasing issue on Mac OS X will be resolved.
The aliasing is actually a bugfix. Pd-extended uses Monaco, which is a font designed to be not aliased. Previously Pd-extended was scaling it a bit, so it appeared aliased. Now it is no longer scaling the Monaco font, so it appears in Pd-extended just like it would another Cocoa app. Here's a pic of Pd-extended versus Apple TextEdit:
I see. Thanks for the info.
Roman
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Hans-Christoph Steiner -
Roman Haefeli