Id just like to add to the discussion how I enjoy the supercollider help system. Ofcourse it taeks full advantage of the fact that sc is text coded and has a help system that was far easier to implemnt then something similar would be in pd. However, it might be worht having a look at it. For those that havent tried SC yet; its help file means that you can select any object or code and press help (similar to pd's right click help on windows) but the beauty is the structure, if a certain object or line of code doesn't have a help file you get thrown to the main help file which directs you to a lot of stuff. Theres tutorials or basic object help etc etc. Navigating it is very easy. Downside is that it isnt very easy to search it, the same problem that pd has ofcourse. I like the idea of having a html server inside pd gui. Im sure it wouldn't be too hard to implemnt a powerfull search engine in it that way. If wanted stuff like Millers book could even be included.
I have been thinking of porting the max & max/msp tutorials to pd. This materials is pretty good or so max'ers say, an di guess the fact that it is used as the standard teaching material for max at music technology schools proves that. However, I think that id run into copyright issues porting it so perhaps we should consider doing a rewrite.
Cheers Anton
Anton Woldhek wrote: ...
I have been thinking of porting the max & max/msp tutorials to pd. This
better not -- lots of max-specifics in there. Rather... install a one-month demo of max/msp, learn, then give user-feedback to cyclone...
materials is pretty good or so max'ers say, an di guess the fact that it is used as the standard teaching material for max at music technology schools
there is no one-size-fits-all solution. We use max/msp tuts for an optional assignment here, and it is quite often a failure.
Krzysztof
Hallo, Krzysztof Czaja hat gesagt: // Krzysztof Czaja wrote:
Anton Woldhek wrote:
materials is pretty good or so max'ers say, an di guess the fact that it is used as the standard teaching material for max at music technology schools
there is no one-size-fits-all solution. We use max/msp tuts for an optional assignment here, and it is quite often a failure.
I'm not sure: I learned quite a bit from reading Max tutorials when I was starting to learn Pd some years ago. And OTOH if you read a book like "Machine Musicianship" whose examples are Max patches, you still can adopt their concepts to Pd.
However I think, Pd is unique enough to allow for Pd specific tutorials.
Ciao
hi Frank,
Frank Barknecht wrote: ...
I'm not sure: I learned quite a bit from reading Max tutorials when I was starting to learn Pd some years ago. And OTOH if you read a book like "Machine Musicianship" whose examples are Max patches, you still can adopt their concepts to Pd.
Rowe is mostly C++. The Max patches are very simple ircam-max. Most of them on the CD load nicely through cyclone with only slight adjustments: saving abstractions first with proper names (Pd is case-sensitive), replacing #s with $s here and there, etc.
Krzysztof
Anton Woldhek wrote: ...
I have been thinking of porting the max & max/msp tutorials to pd. This
better not -- lots of max-specifics in there. Rather... install a one-month demo of max/msp, learn, then give user-feedback to cyclone...
Huh? I Don't get this. What I mean by porting is taking the basic framework and subjects from the max tutorial and create pd specifics for it. What point would it be for me to install max?
materials is pretty good or so max'ers say, an di guess the
fact that
it is used as the standard teaching material for max at music technology schools
there is no one-size-fits-all solution. We use max/msp tuts for an optional assignment here, and it is quite often a failure.
That's interesting, 40+ students have a non-optional course here, ofcourse not everybody benefits to the same extent of the tutorials, just like with any school material. So why does it fail in your case? If we can find out why perhaps we can create even better docs for pd!
Anton
Anton Woldhek wrote: ...
Huh? I Don't get this. What I mean by porting is taking the basic framework and subjects from the max tutorial and create pd specifics for it. What point would it be for me to install max?
because, tutorials are designed for a user who is willing to experiment with tutorial patches, not just for reading the pdfs.
Learning Max is mostly developing skills, not knowledge. Various skills: some are quite generic, some apply to Pd as well, others to Pd+cyclone, some are specific to Max, still others are waste of time (e.g. ``screen esthetics'' or timeline).
...
there is no one-size-fits-all solution. We use max/msp tuts for an optional assignment here, and it is quite often a failure.
That's interesting, 40+ students have a non-optional course here, ofcourse not everybody benefits to the same extent of the tutorials, just like with any school material. So why does it fail in your case? If we can find out
sure, they are great resource, mostly for learning about Max peculiarities, but with nice introductory parts, esp. in msp tuts.
However, there are musicians, new to technology, which are lost if left on their own with Max tutorials, and there are advance hackers, which find them naive and bad style.
Krzysztof
Hey Anton,
My opinion is that we should not just blindly follow the MAX tutorials but see how they may fit into the PD workshop standard. I have mentioned a few philisophical points for workshops/tutorials on the wiki. I'm not sure how much overlap there is between the philosophy of the MAX tutorials.
Also it would be hard for us to compare and learn from the MAX tuts as a group, since we don't largely have access to those materials.
B>
Anton Woldhek wrote:
Anton Woldhek wrote: ...
I have been thinking of porting the max & max/msp tutorials to pd. This
better not -- lots of max-specifics in there. Rather... install a one-month demo of max/msp, learn, then give user-feedback to cyclone...
Huh? I Don't get this. What I mean by porting is taking the basic framework and subjects from the max tutorial and create pd specifics for it. What point would it be for me to install max?
materials is pretty good or so max'ers say, an di guess the
fact that
it is used as the standard teaching material for max at music technology schools
there is no one-size-fits-all solution. We use max/msp tuts for an optional assignment here, and it is quite often a failure.
That's interesting, 40+ students have a non-optional course here, ofcourse not everybody benefits to the same extent of the tutorials, just like with any school material. So why does it fail in your case? If we can find out why perhaps we can create even better docs for pd!
Anton
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Krzysztof Czaja