Now that Pd can be built on all platforms without patches, I think we can have a "pd-vanilla+libs" distro that is based on an unpatched pd- vanilla build. It could also have a more limited subset of included libraries, much like others have been proposing. They would be having the same library format and install methods as Pd-extended, so that patches would be compatible.
It's just a matter of someone doing the work. I'll contribute where I can.
.hc
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'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2", by Mohja Kahf
Hallo Hans, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Now that Pd can be built on all platforms without patches, I think we can have a "pd-vanilla+libs" distro that is based on an unpatched pd- vanilla build. It could also have a more limited subset of included libraries, much like others have been proposing. They would be having the same library format and install methods as Pd-extended, so that patches would be compatible.
I think, this is a very good idea and I'll stick it on my TODO list, however I believe, that instead of a vanilla+libs bundle a pure "libs" installer/package would be more appropriate, kind of like the traditional pd-externals package. We already have binary packages of vanilla Pd (Miller's and autobuild) and I believe it's easier to get more people to use the same externals setup by providing a package independent from a certain Pd build.
Ciao
On Apr 18, 2008, at 8:46 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo Hans, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Now that Pd can be built on all platforms without patches, I think we can have a "pd-vanilla+libs" distro that is based on an unpatched pd- vanilla build. It could also have a more limited subset of included libraries, much like others have been proposing. They would be having the same library format and install methods as Pd-extended, so that patches would be compatible.
I think, this is a very good idea and I'll stick it on my TODO list, however I believe, that instead of a vanilla+libs bundle a pure "libs" installer/package would be more appropriate, kind of like the traditional pd-externals package. We already have binary packages of vanilla Pd (Miller's and autobuild) and I believe it's easier to get more people to use the same externals setup by providing a package independent from a certain Pd build.
Ultimately, that sounds like a good goal, but it would also be a lot more work, and would cuase more bugs. There are incompatibilities between versions, not always large, but there. That means you'd then have to add code to manage that. Externals are a lot like linux kernel modules. Sure, it is possible to create module binaries that work with different versions of the kernel, but the vast majority of people choose to ship source, and only include binaries that are tied to a specific kernel version.
So it seems to me the thing to do is first get the one big build working, then the people can split up the packages if they want.
.hc
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Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic
Could this also include the sexy gui?
~Brandon
On Apr 18, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Apr 18, 2008, at 8:46 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo Hans, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Now that Pd can be built on all platforms without patches, I think we can have a "pd-vanilla+libs" distro that is based on an unpatched pd- vanilla build. It could also have a more limited subset of included libraries, much like others have been proposing. They would be having the same library format and install methods as Pd-extended, so that patches would be compatible.
I think, this is a very good idea and I'll stick it on my TODO list, however I believe, that instead of a vanilla+libs bundle a pure "libs" installer/package would be more appropriate, kind of like the traditional pd-externals package. We already have binary packages of vanilla Pd (Miller's and autobuild) and I believe it's easier to get more people to use the same externals setup by providing a package independent from a certain Pd build.
Ultimately, that sounds like a good goal, but it would also be a lot more work, and would cuase more bugs. There are incompatibilities between versions, not always large, but there. That means you'd then have to add code to manage that. Externals are a lot like linux kernel modules. Sure, it is possible to create module binaries that work with different versions of the kernel, but the vast majority of people choose to ship source, and only include binaries that are tied to a specific kernel version.
So it seems to me the thing to do is first get the one big build working, then the people can split up the packages if they want.
.hc
Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic
PD-dev mailing list PD-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
pd-vanilla would be vanilla only, no patches to pd itself. Pd- extended is for the patches.
.hc
On Apr 18, 2008, at 12:25 PM, bsoisoi wrote:
Could this also include the sexy gui?
~Brandon
On Apr 18, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Apr 18, 2008, at 8:46 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo Hans, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Now that Pd can be built on all platforms without patches, I think we can have a "pd-vanilla+libs" distro that is based on an unpatched pd- vanilla build. It could also have a more limited subset of included libraries, much like others have been proposing. They would be having the same library format and install methods as Pd- extended, so that patches would be compatible.
I think, this is a very good idea and I'll stick it on my TODO list, however I believe, that instead of a vanilla+libs bundle a pure "libs" installer/package would be more appropriate, kind of like the traditional pd-externals package. We already have binary packages of vanilla Pd (Miller's and autobuild) and I believe it's easier to get more people to use the same externals setup by providing a package independent from a certain Pd build.
Ultimately, that sounds like a good goal, but it would also be a lot more work, and would cuase more bugs. There are incompatibilities between versions, not always large, but there. That means you'd then have to add code to manage that. Externals are a lot like linux kernel modules. Sure, it is possible to create module binaries that work with different versions of the kernel, but the vast majority of people choose to ship source, and only include binaries that are tied to a specific kernel version.
So it seems to me the thing to do is first get the one big build working, then the people can split up the packages if they want.
.hc
Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic
PD-dev mailing list PD-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----
There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste
Ah, np. Perfect. Is the lack of anti-aliasing in pd-vanilla a purely vanilla issue, tcl/tk, or extensions to pd-extended? Not a slam, but I do prefer pd-extended's look.
Cheers, ~Brandon
On Apr 18, 2008, at 3:56 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
pd-vanilla would be vanilla only, no patches to pd itself. Pd- extended is for the patches.
.hc
On Apr 18, 2008, at 12:25 PM, bsoisoi wrote:
Could this also include the sexy gui?
~Brandon
On Apr 18, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Apr 18, 2008, at 8:46 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo Hans, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Now that Pd can be built on all platforms without patches, I think we can have a "pd-vanilla+libs" distro that is based on an unpatched pd- vanilla build. It could also have a more limited subset of included libraries, much like others have been proposing. They would be having the same library format and install methods as Pd- extended, so that patches would be compatible.
I think, this is a very good idea and I'll stick it on my TODO list, however I believe, that instead of a vanilla+libs bundle a pure "libs" installer/package would be more appropriate, kind of like the traditional pd-externals package. We already have binary packages of vanilla Pd (Miller's and autobuild) and I believe it's easier to get more people to use the same externals setup by providing a package independent from a certain Pd build.
Ultimately, that sounds like a good goal, but it would also be a lot more work, and would cuase more bugs. There are incompatibilities between versions, not always large, but there. That means you'd then have to add code to manage that. Externals are a lot like linux kernel modules. Sure, it is possible to create module binaries that work with different versions of the kernel, but the vast majority of people choose to ship source, and only include binaries that are tied to a specific kernel version.
So it seems to me the thing to do is first get the one big build working, then the people can split up the packages if they want.
.hc
Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic
PD-dev mailing list PD-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste
One thing that I think should be different with this pd-vanilla distro is that it should be built against the latest libraries, like the latest Tcl/Tk. That will smooth some things out with pd-vanilla, at least on Mac OS X.
On Mac OS X, the anti-aliasing is mostly an issue of which version of Tcl/Tk is using.
.hc
On Apr 18, 2008, at 7:53 PM, Brandon Zeeb wrote:
Ah, np. Perfect. Is the lack of anti-aliasing in pd-vanilla a purely vanilla issue, tcl/tk, or extensions to pd-extended? Not a slam, but I do prefer pd-extended's look.
Cheers, ~Brandon
On Apr 18, 2008, at 3:56 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
pd-vanilla would be vanilla only, no patches to pd itself. Pd- extended is for the patches.
.hc
On Apr 18, 2008, at 12:25 PM, bsoisoi wrote:
Could this also include the sexy gui?
~Brandon
On Apr 18, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Apr 18, 2008, at 8:46 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo Hans, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Now that Pd can be built on all platforms without patches, I think we can have a "pd-vanilla+libs" distro that is based on an unpatched pd- vanilla build. It could also have a more limited subset of included libraries, much like others have been proposing. They would be having the same library format and install methods as Pd- extended, so that patches would be compatible.
I think, this is a very good idea and I'll stick it on my TODO list, however I believe, that instead of a vanilla+libs bundle a pure "libs" installer/package would be more appropriate, kind of like the traditional pd-externals package. We already have binary packages of vanilla Pd (Miller's and autobuild) and I believe it's easier to get more people to use the same externals setup by providing a package independent from a certain Pd build.
Ultimately, that sounds like a good goal, but it would also be a lot more work, and would cuase more bugs. There are incompatibilities between versions, not always large, but there. That means you'd then have to add code to manage that. Externals are a lot like linux kernel modules. Sure, it is possible to create module binaries that work with different versions of the kernel, but the vast majority of people choose to ship source, and only include binaries that are tied to a specific kernel version.
So it seems to me the thing to do is first get the one big build working, then the people can split up the packages if they want.
.hc
Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic
PD-dev mailing list PD-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste
------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----
'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2", by Mohja Kahf
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Apr 18, 2008, at 8:46 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo Hans, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Now that Pd can be built on all platforms without patches, I think we can have a "pd-vanilla+libs" distro that is based on an unpatched pd- vanilla build. It could also have a more limited subset of included libraries, much like others have been proposing. They would be having the same library format and install methods as Pd-extended, so that patches would be compatible.
I think, this is a very good idea and I'll stick it on my TODO list, however I believe, that instead of a vanilla+libs bundle a pure "libs" installer/package would be more appropriate, kind of like the traditional pd-externals package. We already have binary packages of vanilla Pd (Miller's and autobuild) and I believe it's easier to get more people to use the same externals setup by providing a package independent from a certain Pd build.
Ultimately, that sounds like a good goal, but it would also be a lot more work, and would cuase more bugs.
yes, it would be nice to install missing libraries from the menubar within pd, just like firefox plugins... marius.
On Apr 18, 2008, at 1:12 PM, marius schebella wrote:
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Apr 18, 2008, at 8:46 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo Hans, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Now that Pd can be built on all platforms without patches, I think we can have a "pd-vanilla+libs" distro that is based on an unpatched pd- vanilla build. It could also have a more limited subset of included libraries, much like others have been proposing. They would be having the same library format and install methods as Pd- extended, so that patches would be compatible.
I think, this is a very good idea and I'll stick it on my TODO list, however I believe, that instead of a vanilla+libs bundle a pure "libs" installer/package would be more appropriate, kind of like the traditional pd-externals package. We already have binary packages of vanilla Pd (Miller's and autobuild) and I believe it's easier to get more people to use the same externals setup by providing a package independent from a certain Pd build.
Ultimately, that sounds like a good goal, but it would also be a lot more work, and would cuase more bugs.
yes, it would be nice to install missing libraries from the menubar within pd, just like firefox plugins... marius.
Patches welcome! :D
.hc
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News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is publicity. - Bill Moyers
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Ultimately, that sounds like a good goal, but it would also be a lot more work, and would cuase more bugs. There are incompatibilities between versions, not always large, but there. That means you'd then have to add code to manage that. Externals are a lot like linux kernel modules.
Is it really that bad? I often don't recompile my externals when I install a newer Pd version (and just for fun loaded maxlib 0.3, compiled Jul 8 2002 with the newest Pd, seems to work just fine).
I know, some externals are dependent on a specific version, e.g. GUI externals like knob or some that use "private" headers, and of course some abstraction may require features not available in early versions. But this may be possible to work around by requiring a minimum version of Pd(-vanilla).
Ciao
On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 19:19 +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Ultimately, that sounds like a good goal, but it would also be a lot more work, and would cuase more bugs. There are incompatibilities between versions, not always large, but there. That means you'd then have to add code to manage that. Externals are a lot like linux kernel modules.
Is it really that bad? I often don't recompile my externals when I install a newer Pd version (and just for fun loaded maxlib 0.3, compiled Jul 8 2002 with the newest Pd, seems to work just fine).
I know, some externals are dependent on a specific version, e.g. GUI externals like knob or some that use "private" headers, and of course some abstraction may require features not available in early versions. But this may be possible to work around by requiring a minimum version of Pd(-vanilla).
i also wonder, what problems could occur. iirc, i never had any troubles, when installing a new version of pd while keeping all the self-compiled externals. but this might be due to the few libraries i use (zexy, maxlib, iemlib and some abstractions).
would it make sense to track such issues somewhere on www.puredata.info ?
roman
___________________________________________________________ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de
On Apr 18, 2008, at 1:19 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Ultimately, that sounds like a good goal, but it would also be a lot more work, and would cuase more bugs. There are incompatibilities between versions, not always large, but there. That means you'd then have to add code to manage that. Externals are a lot like linux kernel modules.
Is it really that bad? I often don't recompile my externals when I install a newer Pd version (and just for fun loaded maxlib 0.3, compiled Jul 8 2002 with the newest Pd, seems to work just fine).
I know, some externals are dependent on a specific version, e.g. GUI externals like knob or some that use "private" headers, and of course some abstraction may require features not available in early versions. But this may be possible to work around by requiring a minimum version of Pd(-vanilla).
You are welcome to deal with it. I've done it enough. I have no interest in dealing with those issues, so how about we get the unified build working, then y'all can find out the joys of binary incompatibilies without me. :)
.hc
------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
You are welcome to deal with it. I've done it enough. I have no interest in dealing with those issues, so how about we get the unified build working, then y'all can find out the joys of binary incompatibilies without me. :)
Well, you're experience could be a helpful time saver.
Ciao
On Apr 19, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
You are welcome to deal with it. I've done it enough. I have no interest in dealing with those issues, so how about we get the unified build working, then y'all can find out the joys of binary incompatibilies without me. :)
Well, you're experience could be a helpful time saver.
Hehe, yeah, my experience is why I don't want to deal with it anymore :) I am sure I'd answer emails about it if someone else took it on...
.hc
Ciao
Frank
PD-dev mailing list PD-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
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Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Now that Pd can be built on all platforms without patches, I think we can have a "pd-vanilla+libs" distro that is based on an unpatched pd- vanilla build.
Another question regarding pd-vanilla+libs as a complete package: Isn't this already done, if the patches, pd-extended applies, would be left out when building?
Ciao
On Apr 20, 2008, at 5:29 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Now that Pd can be built on all platforms without patches, I think we can have a "pd-vanilla+libs" distro that is based on an unpatched pd- vanilla build.
Another question regarding pd-vanilla+libs as a complete package: Isn't this already done, if the patches, pd-extended applies, would be left out when building?
Most of it is done, but there is still a fair amount of work needed to get vanilla+libs building properly on each platforms.
.hc
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'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2", by Mohja Kahf
-
Brandon Zeeb -
bsoisoi
-
Frank Barknecht -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
marius schebella -
Mathieu Bouchard -
Roman Haefeli