To Pd dev -
Isn't it time we Pd's default sample rate to 48K? I don't think anyone else except Ableton Live is defaulting to 44100 any more.
I asked this a few years ago and I think Dan thought it was a bad idea, and so I punted for then. But I think someday we should take the plunge... are there still good reasons to wait on this?
thanks Miller
Howdy Miller,
at this point I would say yes. I don't remember my reasoning if I was against it before, maybe that lots of projects might have 44.1k sound files. We have more tools at this point to deal with it such outputting the fiel sample rate on load etc.
On May 28, 2025, at 9:17 AM, Miller Puckette via Pd-dev pd-dev@lists.iem.at wrote:
To Pd dev -
Isn't it time we Pd's default sample rate to 48K? I don't think anyone else except Ableton Live is defaulting to 44100 any more.
I asked this a few years ago and I think Dan thought it was a bad idea, and so I punted for then. But I think someday we should take the plunge... are there still good reasons to wait on this?
thanks Miller
pd-dev@lists.iem.at - the Pd developers' mailinglist https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-dev@lists.iem.at/message/5RAQ3L4JXMH...
-------- Dan Wilcox danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Christof and I were for 44.1k because of the wav files in the examples. also most chances are that if you open a wav file is for 44.1k and readsf~ wont resample.
But I think someday we should take the plunge... are there still good reasons to wait on this?
that was the reason but idk if is still good.
:)
[...] because of the wav files in the examples.
aren't those just 3 files in https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/tree/master/doc/sound? bell.aiff voice.wav voice2.wav
... maybe they could be updated or upsampled? - preferably the former for maximum listening pleasure? :)
I *think* my reasoning back then was that it can break existing patches, notably those that do [loadbang] -> [samplerate~] and expect 44100. (I used to do that myself in the past when I didn't know better :)
If the user didn't save the audio device, this would now output 48000. But such patches are wrong anyway and personally I don't care much anymore.
In the meantime, Alex has also updated samplerate~-help.pd, which now explains how to properly use "pd-dsp-started". *)
So from my side it would be ok to switch to 48000. But as Lucas noted, we should also update the included WAV files.
Christof
*) I think there could be an explicit warning not to rely on [loadbang] -> [samplerate~].
On 28.05.2025 10:26, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
Christof and I were for 44.1k because of the wav files in the examples. also most chances are that if you open a wav file is for 44.1k and readsf~ wont resample.
But I think someday we should take the plunge... are there still good reasons to wait on this?
that was the reason but idk if is still good.
:)
Em qua., 28 de mai. de 2025 às 06:21, Christof Ressi info@christofressi.com escreveu:
we should also update the included WAV files.
Ok, that's on my radar :)
By the way, I also wanna add a stereo file example, see https://github.com/pure-data/pddp/issues/278
Just as a note w/rt JACK, I run AV Linux (built on MX/AntiX), and the JACK server comes configured as 44100 Hz sample rate. Additionally, for reasons I have been completely unable to comprehend, when I run "pure" AntiX in a VM that is hosted on Win10, the VM appears to default to 35020 Hz sample rate, which is absolutely bonkers.
I mention this because I am still working on JACK MIDI (having a day job can make things go very slowly) and I've just gone through about a month of figuring out that JACK had a different sr than PortAudio which was causing my PD instance to ultimately experience a lot of overruns. This all mattered because I am still working to get the MIDI to sync correctly between PD time and JACK time.
Do I have an opinion on the default sr for PD? Not really. I just want to point out that this is not a "no consequences" kind of decision. For the future, I am pretty much continually running with pd -r 44100 just to make sure. If you do change the default, it might be good to light up a billboard saying how to get the old behavior back :)
D &cet
On Wed, 28 May 2025 at 15:38, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Also, 48k is the HW default on Apple mobile devices since the iPhone 6S, so libpd + 48k transfers as well. All of my performance patches are still 44.1 and I had to really fix the buffering in the PdAudioUnit to support that SR.
enohp ym morf tnes
Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On May 28, 2025, at 3:14 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
Em qua., 28 de mai. de 2025 às 06:21, Christof Ressi < info@christofressi.com> escreveu:
we should also update the included WAV files.
Ok, that's on my radar :)
By the way, I also wanna add a stereo file example, see https://github.com/pure-data/pddp/issues/278
pd-dev@lists.iem.at - the Pd developers' mailinglist
https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-dev@lists.iem.at/message/HZAAYOCYKK6...
pd-dev@lists.iem.at - the Pd developers' mailinglist
https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-dev@lists.iem.at/message/264H666OZRJ...
OK, it seems like it's worth doing. I'm not sure where to put a billboard (over IRCAM's facade?)
cheers Miller
On 5/28/25 5:52 PM, Day Rush wrote:
Just as a note w/rt JACK, I run AV Linux (built on MX/AntiX), and the JACK server comes configured as 44100 Hz sample rate. Additionally, for reasons I have been completely unable to comprehend, when I run "pure" AntiX in a VM that is hosted on Win10, the VM appears to default to 35020 Hz sample rate, which is absolutely bonkers.
I mention this because I am still working on JACK MIDI (having a day job can make things go very slowly) and I've just gone through about a month of figuring out that JACK had a different sr than PortAudio which was causing my PD instance to ultimately experience a lot of overruns. This all mattered because I am still working to get the MIDI to sync correctly between PD time and JACK time.
Do I have an opinion on the default sr for PD? Not really. I just want to point out that this is not a "no consequences" kind of decision. For the future, I am pretty much continually running with pd -r 44100 just to make sure. If you do change the default, it might be good to light up a billboard saying how to get the old behavior back :)
D &cet
On Wed, 28 May 2025 at 15:38, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Also, 48k is the HW default on Apple mobile devices since the iPhone 6S, so libpd + 48k transfers as well. All of my performance patches are still 44.1 and I had to really fix the buffering in the PdAudioUnit to support that SR. enohp ym morf tnes ----------- Dan Wilcox danomatika.com <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://danomatika.com__;!!Mih3wA!AfdbSU2KtMIZeaBhW-IxG_zbmPNzgc0bxbGUjJYn2g8w9ED57Wx2dghFEPHznYuLQDwpyvB40DM4$> robotcowboy.com <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://robotcowboy.com__;!!Mih3wA!AfdbSU2KtMIZeaBhW-IxG_zbmPNzgc0bxbGUjJYn2g8w9ED57Wx2dghFEPHznYuLQDwpymewWTYn$>
On May 28, 2025, at 3:14 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com> wrote: Em qua., 28 de mai. de 2025 às 06:21, Christof Ressi <info@christofressi.com> escreveu: we should also update the included WAV files. Ok, that's on my radar :) By the way, I also wanna add a stereo file example, see https://github.com/pure-data/pddp/issues/278 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pddp/issues/278__;!!Mih3wA!AfdbSU2KtMIZeaBhW-IxG_zbmPNzgc0bxbGUjJYn2g8w9ED57Wx2dghFEPHznYuLQDwpysCIg0Tx$> --- pd-dev@lists.iem.at - the Pd developers' mailinglist https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-dev@lists.iem.at/message/HZAAYOCYKK6DKAZP4EHMKB5PFU5VG745/ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-dev@lists.iem.at/message/HZAAYOCYKK6DKAZP4EHMKB5PFU5VG745/__;!!Mih3wA!AfdbSU2KtMIZeaBhW-IxG_zbmPNzgc0bxbGUjJYn2g8w9ED57Wx2dghFEPHznYuLQDwpynDt1ZZw$>
--- pd-dev@lists.iem.at - the Pd developers' mailinglist https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-dev@lists.iem.at/message/264H666OZRJNFS6ZTDACCF5EKPHGAR7D/ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-dev@lists.iem.at/message/264H666OZRJNFS6ZTDACCF5EKPHGAR7D/__;!!Mih3wA!AfdbSU2KtMIZeaBhW-IxG_zbmPNzgc0bxbGUjJYn2g8w9ED57Wx2dghFEPHznYuLQDwpys_g9qN8$>
-- GPG Public key at http://cyber-rush.org/drr/gpg-public-key.txt https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://cyber-rush.org/drr/gpg-public-key.txt__;!!Mih3wA!AfdbSU2KtMIZeaBhW-IxG_zbmPNzgc0bxbGUjJYn2g8w9ED57Wx2dghFEPHznYuLQDwpykwhEHRR$
pd-dev@lists.iem.at - the Pd developers' mailinglist https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-dev@list...
On Wed, 2025-05-28 at 09:17 +0200, Miller Puckette via Pd-dev wrote:
Isn't it time we Pd's default sample rate to 48K? I don't think anyone else except Ableton Live is defaulting to 44100 any more.
I asked this a few years ago and I think Dan thought it was a bad idea, and so I punted for then. But I think someday we should take the plunge... are there still good reasons to wait on this?
My experience is that many built-in soundcards actually only support 48k, so Pd's default samplerate doesn't matter that much. Historically, probably because of this default setting, I've been creating all my Pd output with 44100. Not so long ago, but long after netpd has added support for the synchronization of audio samples, the impact of mismatching samplerates (between peers) came up and that it would give totally off results. I added a sr check in netpd and decided to declare 44100 as the standard sr for netpd in order not to break all existing saved sessions. But on the long run, it would be better to switch to 48k now, I guess.
The same for Pd. From what I can tell, 48k would be in accordance with most hardware that is around. Only Pipewire allows me nowadays to run JACK on built-in hw with 44100 although the hw only supports 48k (not an issue with external card that as a configurable clock). Everyone agreeing to 48k would be for the greater good, I'd say.
Roman