On Wed, Sep 13, 2006 at 04:00:20AM +0200, Vincent Lordier wrote:
So it's basically up to Miller to let the development process change, so we can propose improvements. If not, then I guess I'll join the growing group of discouraged ones, eventually.
I think you have hit the nail on the head with this statement, Vincent. The situation is such that Miller has a particular way of working that doesn't include frequent CVS commits and doesn't include allowing others to hack on the vanilla sourcecode. This is fine, and is infact the way a lot of open source projects work; with a 'benevolent dictator' - the linux kernel for example follows this model. The only way to get something into the kernel is to submit a patch, just like Pd.
Miller seems to be a pretty busy person with things other than Pd and although he has made efforts to adopt tools like CVS it seems unlikely to me that he will find the time to change his entire development methodology to suit every person on this list.
In short, I think that if people want to see changes to Pd they have two choices to follow:
1. Follow the tried and tested method of other similar projects; read the notes.txt file and start submitting patches that fix issues that Miller wants fixed. We have seen Miller adopt many patches leading up to 0.40.
2. Whine a whole bunch and then fork the source code (and then hopefully stop whining).
3. If people want new features added to Pd they can submit patches, but they have to understand that as the leader of the project it is completely Miller's right to reject patches that he doesn't want to see as part of his vision of Pd. It should be noted that Linus (for example) frequently drops patches completely silently. Not because he's an asshole, but because there are more efficient ways for him to spend his time than understanding and replying to every single wacky change to the kernel.
There have for example been several complaints about the tooltips patch that never got submitted. Miller specified the exact reason that the patch was not accepted: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-dev/2005-09/004847.html It seems like he never provided a follow up answer to Tim's question of how that they should be implemented, which is sad. I for one would be really happy for Miller to provide a reply as to how tooltips can be worked into his vision of Pd so we can all get that wonderful feature.
But everyone should also stop making indirect rude complaints about it, and just write him an email on this list to ask him specifically and politely. Let me do that now;
Miller; you rejected the tooltips patch that many people want to see applied. What do we need to change to see that patch make it into Pd?
Hopefully your emails Vincent, which are much more balanced, positive, and less accusatory than many others on this list will help Miller to see that there is some call for more openness in the development of Pd, and help others see that there is a way of working that is not so negative, egotistical and demanding.
Best,
Chris.
------------------- chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx