hi.
i want to move the gem-homepage http://gem.iem.at to puredata.info;
what would be the best place to put it? i am thinking about /community/projects/gem, but any other thoughts are welcome (i don't want to put it into my home-folder, as it is not just my project)
mfg.asdr IOhannes
On 06/06/2007, at 17.27, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
i am thinking about /community/projects/gem, but any other thoughts are welcome
That sounds sound since Rradical also has a space there. But the there seam to be a Gem wiki at /dev/gemwiki/. I think it would make sense then to have those together.
I have no real strong opinions other than i think it's great that externals/libs have a reference website with documentation and stuff.
On Jun 6, 2007, at 2:01 PM, Steffen wrote:
On 06/06/2007, at 17.27, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
i am thinking about /community/projects/gem, but any other thoughts are welcome
That sounds sound since Rradical also has a space there. But the there seam to be a Gem wiki at /dev/gemwiki/. I think it would make sense then to have those together.
I have no real strong opinions other than i think it's great that externals/libs have a reference website with documentation and stuff.
I say that put the individual pages in the spaces appropriate instead of making a site within a site, like downloads on the downloads page, development notes in the /dev/ section, documentation in the /docs section, etc.
.hc
pdweb mailing list pdweb@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pdweb
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Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Jun 6, 2007, at 2:01 PM, Steffen wrote:
On 06/06/2007, at 17.27, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
i am thinking about /community/projects/gem, but any other thoughts are welcome
That sounds sound since Rradical also has a space there. But the there seam to be a Gem wiki at /dev/gemwiki/. I think it would make sense then to have those together.
I have no real strong opinions other than i think it's great that externals/libs have a reference website with documentation and stuff.
I say that put the individual pages in the spaces appropriate instead of making a site within a site, like downloads on the downloads page, development notes in the /dev/ section, documentation in the /docs section, etc.
the features of the currently used cms allow us to collect all documentation (or whatever) that is spread over the entire site into "intelligent" folders. this way you will be see the Gem-documentation in the docs folder (if used properly) even if it lives in my private home-directory. the same is true for the /community/projects/ space, where right now you see the MIDI-turntable project which actually lives in the home of j.p.casainho.
what i do want is: - allow other people to edit the gem.iem.at site (without giving them shell-access to our webserver) - use cms-features like announcements and the like (which are provided by puredata.info) - do not affect the structure of the current gem.iem.at site. (this is: the same content (but maintained and enhanced) should still be available under gem.iem.at)
these reasons make me think of using puredata.info for hosting gem.iem.at (i could set up another plone instance for gem; but this seems like an overhead) cluttering the content across the site by hand is something that should be done automatically not by humans. for humans the form that is most comfortable to the editors should be used (and since i guess that i will be the main editor, i would prefer the site-in-site approach)
this is: for me the "space appropriate" is one single space and not several ones. several spaces can then use the information even more appropriately.
fmgas.dr. IOhannes
IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
hi.
i want to move the gem-homepage http://gem.iem.at to puredata.info;
what would be the best place to put it? i am thinking about /community/projects/gem, but any other thoughts are welcome (i don't want to put it into my home-folder, as it is not just my project)
furthermore i am thinking about setting adding the plone-software-center to the puredata.info page, which is a system for releasing files, bugtracking and documenting software. the good thing about it is, that it can incorporate external sources as well (e.g. use the sf-tracker as an issue tracker)
you can see it in action at http://plone.org/products/ (or my sandbox which will soon vanish again at https://test.umlaeute.mur.at/portal/download/)
each and every project (libraries, pd-vanilla, pd-extended, desiredata) could benefit from that system. but unfortunately(?) it suggests an organization as i like it (organized per "package") and not as hans would prefer (organized site-wide)
what do you think?
fmga.dr IOhannes
On 10/06/2007, at 21.05, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
furthermore i am thinking about setting adding the plone-software- center to the puredata.info page, which is a system for releasing files, bugtracking and documenting software.
I'm not 100% sure how this software work, but having such features for different members small to big puredata projects sounds nice. However, 1) how does it differ from the current settings if it had a bugtracker? 2) not all use the puredata.info site for sharing there work, but rather their own system somewhere, hence i fear you'd labor for wee bonus. But if you'd need it for the Gem stuff, then it'll of cause be in use and worth the effort.
the good thing about it is, that it can incorporate external sources as well (e.g. use the sf-tracker as an issue tracker)
That i don't understand.
[...] but unfortunately(?) it suggests an organization as i like it (organized per "package") and not as hans would prefer (organized site-wide)
what do you think?
I guess it depends how one search for things. Or how much collaboration there is. Or what contents is dominant. I favor consistency over any specific solution. - But your "smartfolder" suggestion in the previous email suggested that an "either-or"- solution wasn't necessary?
my humble void.
Steffen wrote:
On 10/06/2007, at 21.05, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
furthermore i am thinking about setting adding the plone-software- center to the puredata.info page, which is a system for releasing files, bugtracking and documenting software.
I'm not 100% sure how this software work, but having such features for different members small to big puredata projects sounds nice. However,
- how does it differ from the current settings if it had a bugtracker?
there has been discussion on whether it would be ok to use the sourceforge release system for "private" (this is: not pd-vanilla not pd-extended) packages; the answer has been negative.
i am still searching for an alternative.
i was already thinking about registering another project at sourceforge where "everyone" could become release-manager (just like "everyone" can become developper at the pure-data repository).
using the puredata.info seems a more logical place though.
- not all use the puredata.info site for sharing there work, but
rather their own system somewhere, hence i fear you'd labor for wee bonus. But if you'd need it for the Gem stuff, then it'll of cause be in use and worth the effort.
i do not necessarily need it; but it would be nice to have. (the trigger for all this has been an email chris clepper has sent me, containing a new Gem-binary for os-x, so that i can publish it; i would prefer if he could do this himself)
furthermore there is still no real central place to get stuff: - there is the CVS (but this is only for people who can use a compiler) - there is pd-extended (but for me this is too monolithic; it is ok, but i would like to have an alternative too) - there is the current "downloads" section, but honestly i find it totally unattractive (that is: graphically)
imho, it would be best to replace the current "downloads" section with the plone-software-center
the good thing about it is, that it can incorporate external sources as well (e.g. use the sf-tracker as an issue tracker)
That i don't understand.
the binaries can be located somewhere else (but also they can be directly on the site) a bug-tracker can be maintained somewhere else (but could also be maintained within the portal) documentation can be somewhere else (but can also be within the project)
examples: binaries on-site: https://test.umlaeute.mur.at/portal/download/zexy binaries off-site: https://test.umlaeute.mur.at/portal/download/gem/releases/0.90
trackder/doc on-site: https://test.umlaeute.mur.at/portal/download/zexy
tracker/doc off-site: https://test.umlaeute.mur.at/portal/download/gem
it is not much: but you have a standardized interface for the users to chose what they want, no matter where the actual data lives.
mfg.asdr IOhannes
Hallo, IOhannes m zmoelnig hat gesagt: // IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
i do not necessarily need it; but it would be nice to have. (the trigger for all this has been an email chris clepper has sent me, containing a new Gem-binary for os-x, so that i can publish it; i would prefer if he could do this himself)
furthermore there is still no real central place to get stuff:
- there is the CVS (but this is only for people who can use a compiler)
- there is pd-extended (but for me this is too monolithic; it is ok, but
i would like to have an alternative too)
- there is the current "downloads" section, but honestly i find it
totally unattractive (that is: graphically)
imho, it would be best to replace the current "downloads" section with the plone-software-center
I didn't yet look at this product, but from what you wrote so far this looks like a very cool thing to have.
Ciao
On Jun 10, 2007, at 6:34 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, IOhannes m zmoelnig hat gesagt: // IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
i do not necessarily need it; but it would be nice to have. (the trigger for all this has been an email chris clepper has sent me, containing a new Gem-binary for os-x, so that i can publish it; i would prefer if he could do this himself)
furthermore there is still no real central place to get stuff:
- there is the CVS (but this is only for people who can use a
compiler)
- there is pd-extended (but for me this is too monolithic; it is
ok, but i would like to have an alternative too)
- there is the current "downloads" section, but honestly i find it
totally unattractive (that is: graphically)
imho, it would be best to replace the current "downloads" section with the plone-software-center
I didn't yet look at this product, but from what you wrote so far this looks like a very cool thing to have.
I think that Plone is much too complicated for what we need for puredata.info. I think we would be better off if the whole thing was a wiki. Right now we get very little user generated content, there are only a couple contributors to the website. I think this is because things are much too complicated.
As for the downloads page, I am currently the maintainer and I really see no advantage to changing it. If you want to add the plone software center as an additional thing, that's fine by me.
Same goes with the bugtracker, the sourceforge one works well, I see no reason to change it.
.hc
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
pdweb mailing list pdweb@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pdweb
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¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido!
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
imho, it would be best to replace the current "downloads" section with the plone-software-center
I didn't yet look at this product, but from what you wrote so far this looks like a very cool thing to have.
I think that Plone is much too complicated for what we need for puredata.info. I think we would be better off if the whole thing was a wiki. Right now we get very little user generated content, there are only a couple contributors to the website. I think this is because things are much too complicated.
well, as asiad in previous emails: the good thing about plone is, that it has a wiki. so people can do sophisticated stuff with it if they are willing to get into it, or just use simple things they already know.
As for the downloads page, I am currently the maintainer and I really see no advantage to changing it. If you want to add the plone software center as an additional thing, that's fine by me.
as far as i can see, the current downloads page is really just one page with a short enumeration of downloadable things, organized in a not-too-appealing way (sorry if this sounds harsh; i am no web-designer either).
the main problem with the downloads section is, however, that there is no place where people are allowed to put their packages. (though they can easily add their package to the enumeration, once they have found a place for it).
so i still have 2 options: either register a 2nd project at sourceforge, or implement an adequate mechanism on puredata.info (which i prefer, since it is more fun on my side)
otoh, i AM willing to maintain a changed downloads section.
Same goes with the bugtracker, the sourceforge one works well, I see no reason to change it.
me neither. nevertheless an issue-tracker is a good thing to think about before one deploys a software-center solution. better to be able to add a thing later than to dearly miss it, when sourceforge is finally bought by google.
mgfa.sdr IOhannes
Hallo!
well, as asiad in previous emails: the good thing about plone is, that it has a wiki. so people can do sophisticated stuff with it if they are willing to get into it, or just use simple things they already know.
I am also not such a fan of all the plone stuff but I don't think that changing to an other CMS would make sense ...
As for the downloads page, I am currently the maintainer and I really see no advantage to changing it. If you want to add the plone software center as an additional thing, that's fine by me.
[...]
the main problem with the downloads section is, however, that there is no place where people are allowed to put their packages. (though they can easily add their package to the enumeration, once they have found a place for it).
yes ... There should also be a place to download externals and patches and whatever ... (maybe also taken from the autobuilds as frank suggested some time ago ?)
Look e.g. at plone.org/products - there all the products (= externals/abstractions in pd world) are managed in a nice way ...
LG Georg
On Jun 13, 2007, at 3:34 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
imho, it would be best to replace the current "downloads" section with the plone-software-center
I didn't yet look at this product, but from what you wrote so far this looks like a very cool thing to have.
I think that Plone is much too complicated for what we need for puredata.info. I think we would be better off if the whole thing was a wiki. Right now we get very little user generated content, there are only a couple contributors to the website. I think this is because things are much too complicated.
well, as asiad in previous emails: the good thing about plone is, that it has a wiki. so people can do sophisticated stuff with it if they are willing to get into it, or just use simple things they already know.
The plone upgrade has helped this a lot, the previous support for wikis was pretty weak. Now I think it can be claimed that plone has a wiki (i.e. wiki folders).
But whenever something is a "plone" page and something different than a wiki, then it limits who's going to use it, since most people don't want to learn plone. That's why I had the "member downloads" page as a wiki, but it seems you have converted it to some plone thing without asking anyone.
As for the downloads page, I am currently the maintainer and I really see no advantage to changing it. If you want to add the plone software center as an additional thing, that's fine by me.
as far as i can see, the current downloads page is really just one page with a short enumeration of downloadable things, organized in a not-too-appealing way (sorry if this sounds harsh; i am no web- designer either).
the main problem with the downloads section is, however, that there is no place where people are allowed to put their packages. (though they can easily add their package to the enumeration, once they have found a place for it).
so i still have 2 options: either register a 2nd project at sourceforge, or implement an adequate mechanism on puredata.info (which i prefer, since it is more fun on my side)
otoh, i AM willing to maintain a changed downloads section.
I think it's pretty easy to add downloads to this page, but not especially pretty:
http://puredata.org/downloads/other_members
Right now, a common problem is that people don't know which package to download. Adding more packages to the front of the download page will only make it more confusing. While I completely support vibrez and desiredata, I think it's pretty clear at this point that they are separate projects, with their own websites, lists, etc. So it does not make sense to also have dd and vibrez packages here.
.hc
Same goes with the bugtracker, the sourceforge one works well, I see no reason to change it.
me neither. nevertheless an issue-tracker is a good thing to think about before one deploys a software-center solution. better to be able to add a thing later than to dearly miss it, when sourceforge is finally bought by google.
mgfa.sdr IOhannes
pdweb mailing list pdweb@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pdweb
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All information should be free. - the hacker ethic
IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
hi.
since it seems we have not come to a real conclusion on this, i will (after another period of waiting) not replace the current /downloads section, but instead i will add the software-center as /community/projects/software/ (and add Gem as a software-project there)
this should be in-line with everybody.
mfg.asdr IOhannes
IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
hi.
since it seems we have not come to a real conclusion on this, i will (after another period of waiting) not replace the current /downloads section, but instead i will add the software-center as /community/projects/software/ (and add Gem as a software-project there)
this should be in-line with everybody.
done.
fmg.asdr IOhannes
-
Frank Barknecht -
Georg Holzmann -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
Steffen