I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in front of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No mention of Antonio Roberts!
I'm one of the tech reviewers ;-)
Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise you'd already published a book with them (blushing).
I didn't publish the book, just did a tech review of it. As I briefly said in a comment in the G+ thread, it wasn't a bad experience but not a great one either. I considered it a good way to give back to the community (yes, I know you have to buy the book) and get my name "out there", but now that I've done it once I won't be doing it again and definitely not for them ;-)
(on a separate note I'm also thinking about reviving the Pure Data Documentation Project)
To me it seems like Packt are a legitimate business but aer telling a few porkies with regards to royalties
On Tue 19 Nov 2013 14:24:23 GMT, Julian Brooks wrote:
Hey Ed (& Antonio),
Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise you'd already published a book with them (blushing).
My first comment was more from a reading of the original link that Antonio forwarded. And from that, Packt look well suss.
There's certainly no shortage of dodgy publishers about (nor record labels for that matter) - guess it depends on the deal you can wangle.
On 19 November 2013 14:00, Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
PS Antonio, nice favicon :) Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/ Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/ On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote: Damn - they changed Yahoo mail recently and I can't seem to find it. However, www.hellocatfood.com <http://www.hellocatfood.com> does indeed seem to be genuine, and Antonio does indeed seem to be a performer with multimedia performer using Pure Data. This doesn't look like a hack, but "free money" should always be treated with suspicion I'm sure. Probably the best way forward is for one of us to get in touch with Packt publishing and request clarification. Cheers, Ed Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/ Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/ On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote: Hmm. I couldn't get the post Antonio was referring to in his email. This could be a very sophisticated form of phishing I suppose. Apologies for my naivety! I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in front of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No mention of Antonio Roberts! I'll just take a look at the header for the email and get back to you. Let's not take too much time in dealing with this. Ed Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/ Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/ On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 13:41, Julian Brooks <jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com>> wrote: Is this some kind of so-dry-I-don't-get-it humour 'cos they look well suss J On 19 November 2013 13:21, Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote: Wow! Is the Pd foundation up and running? I haven't followed the news (if there is any) regarding this. Perhaps this is within your scope Hans? Ed Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/ Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/ On Monday, 18 November 2013, 19:53, Antonio Roberts <antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>> wrote: A representative of Packt Publishing recently put out a call to developers of open source software packages that are covered in their books to get in contact regarding royalties. They claim that they give money to the authors _and_ the project that the book is based upon. Text below: "I'm sorry that we haven't yet been able to make this clear. I will have this looked in to and revised for clarity. But, to confirm, authors receive royalties on sales of their books but we also give a royalty, where the book is based on an Open Source software or system, to the Project. I'm not at liberty to disclose the names of projects that have received this royalty, only that cumulatively we have given out a large sum of money to them. Please also treat this as a call out to any Open Source project that we have published on to get in touch with me should they not be receiving their royalties, we can only send them to you if we have your details :) " Full thread here: https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7Sir <https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7Sir>See last comment from Jonathan Titmus -- ============================ antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> http://www.hellocatfood.com <http://www.hellocatfood.com/> ============================ _______________________________________________ Pd-ot mailing list Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot _______________________________________________ Pd-ot mailing list Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
Oh Man!
Really sorry for my laziness. I just opened it and saw your name!!¬! Listen, we're really grateful for your support. There aren't enough books about Pure Data programming out there, and I'm sure my students will find this really helpful.
Once again, I think the person you need to talk to is Hans Cristoph-Steiner, but I am sure he'll read this thread.
Nice to meet you Antonio, even if it was slightly cack-handed from my end ;-)
Ed
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/
On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 15:15, Antonio Roberts antonio@hellocatfood.com wrote:
I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in front of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No mention of Antonio Roberts!
I'm one of the tech reviewers ;-)
Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise you'd already published a book with them (blushing).
I didn't publish the book, just did a tech review of it. As I briefly said in a comment in the G+ thread, it wasn't a bad experience but not a great one either. I considered it a good way to give back to the community (yes, I know you have to buy the book) and get my name "out there", but now that I've done it once I won't be doing it again and definitely not for them ;-)
(on a separate note I'm also thinking about reviving the Pure Data Documentation Project)
To me it seems like Packt are a legitimate business but aer telling a few porkies with regards to royalties
On Tue 19 Nov 2013 14:24:23 GMT, Julian Brooks wrote:
Hey Ed (& Antonio),
Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise you'd already published a book with them (blushing).
My first comment was more from a reading of the original link that Antonio forwarded. And from that, Packt look well suss.
There's certainly no shortage of dodgy publishers about (nor record labels for that matter) - guess it depends on the deal you can wangle.
On 19 November 2013 14:00, Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
PS Antonio, nice favicon :)
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/
On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Damn - they changed Yahoo mail recently and I can't seem to find it. However, www.hellocatfood.com http://www.hellocatfood.com does indeed seem to be genuine, and Antonio does indeed seem to be a performer with multimedia performer using Pure Data.
This doesn't look like a hack, but "free money" should always be treated with suspicion I'm sure.
Probably the best way forward is for one of us to get in touch with Packt publishing and request clarification.
Cheers, Ed
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/
On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hmm. I couldn't get the post Antonio was referring to in his email. This could be a very sophisticated form of phishing I suppose. Apologies for my naivety!
I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in front of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No mention of Antonio Roberts!
I'll just take a look at the header for the email and get back to you. Let's not take too much time in dealing with this.
Ed Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/
On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 13:41, Julian Brooks <jbeezez@gmail.com mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com> wrote:
Is this some kind of so-dry-I-don't-get-it humour 'cos they look well suss
J
On 19 November 2013 13:21, Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Wow!
Is the Pd foundation up and running? I haven't followed the news (if there is any) regarding this.
Perhaps this is within your scope Hans?
Ed
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/
On Monday, 18 November 2013, 19:53, Antonio Roberts <antonio@hellocatfood.com mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> wrote:
A representative of Packt Publishing recently put out a call to developers of open source software packages that are covered in their books to get in contact regarding royalties. They claim that they give money to the authors _and_ the project that the book is based upon. Text below:
"I'm sorry that we haven't yet been able to make this clear. I will have this looked in to and revised for clarity. But, to confirm, authors receive royalties on sales of their books but we also give a royalty, where the book is based on an Open Source software or system, to the Project. I'm not at liberty to disclose the names of projects that have received this royalty, only that cumulatively we have given out a large sum of money to them. Please also treat this as a call out to any Open Source project that we have published on to get in touch with me should they not be receiving their royalties, we can only send them to you if we have your details :) "
Full thread here: https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7Sir https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7SirSee last comment from Jonathan Titmus
-- ============================ antonio@hellocatfood.com mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com http://www.hellocatfood.com http://www.hellocatfood.com/ ============================
_______________________________________________ Pd-ot mailing list Pd-ot@iem.at mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
_______________________________________________ Pd-ot mailing list Pd-ot@iem.at mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
Really sorry for my laziness. I just opened it and saw your name!!¬! Listen, we're really grateful for your support. There aren't enough books about Pure Data programming out there, and I'm sure my students will find this really helpful.
That's why I agreed to do it. I think there's plenty of resources out there for PD music/audio programming but none dedicated to just visuals. The book was a bit too basic for my needs, but it would've been invaluable to me three years ago!
Also, no need to thank me, I didn't write it! Regardless, I'm glad that you/your students will find it useful. I'm glad the book now exists, I just wish Packt were clearer on the whole royalties situation.
Once again, I think the person you need to talk to is Hans Cristoph-Steiner, but I am sure he'll read this thread.
Hopefully he will. Packt do a lot of books about open source software so I'll be interested in hearing if those projects get royalties/support as well.
Nice to meet you Antonio, even if it was slightly cack-handed from my end ;-)
No harm done ;-) Out of interest, where do you teach?
Antonio
On Tue 19 Nov 2013 15:40:35 GMT, Ed Kelly wrote:
Oh Man!
Really sorry for my laziness. I just opened it and saw your name!!¬! Listen, we're really grateful for your support. There aren't enough books about Pure Data programming out there, and I'm sure my students will find this really helpful.
Once again, I think the person you need to talk to is Hans Cristoph-Steiner, but I am sure he'll read this thread.
Nice to meet you Antonio, even if it was slightly cack-handed from my end ;-)
Ed
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/
On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 15:15, Antonio Roberts antonio@hellocatfood.com wrote:
> I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in front of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No mention of Antonio Roberts! I'm one of the tech reviewers ;-) > Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise you'd > already published a book with them (blushing). I didn't publish the book, just did a tech review of it. As I briefly said in a comment in the G+ thread, it wasn't a bad experience but not a great one either. I considered it a good way to give back to the community (yes, I know you have to buy the book) and get my name "out there", but now that I've done it once I won't be doing it again and definitely not for them ;-) (on a separate note I'm also thinking about reviving the Pure Data Documentation Project) To me it seems like Packt are a legitimate business but aer telling a few porkies with regards to royalties On Tue 19 Nov 2013 14:24:23 GMT, Julian Brooks wrote: > Hey Ed (& Antonio), > > Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise you'd > already published a book with them (blushing). > > My first comment was more from a reading of the original link that > Antonio forwarded. And from that, Packt look well suss. > > There's certainly no shortage of dodgy publishers about (nor record > labels for that matter) - guess it depends on the deal you can wangle. > > > On 19 November 2013 14:00, Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>> wrote: > > PS Antonio, nice favicon :) > > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune > and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ > > > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ > > > On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>> wrote: > > Damn - they changed Yahoo mail recently and I can't seem to > find it. However, www.hellocatfood.com > <http://www.hellocatfood.com <http://www.hellocatfood.com/>> does indeed seem to be genuine, > and Antonio does indeed seem to be a performer with multimedia > performer using Pure Data. > > This doesn't look like a hack, but "free money" should always > be treated with suspicion I'm sure. > > Probably the best way forward is for one of us to get in touch > with Packt publishing and request clarification. > > Cheers, > Ed > > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja > Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ > > > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with > dynamics! > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ > > > On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>> wrote: > > Hmm. I couldn't get the post Antonio was referring to in > his email. This could be a very sophisticated form of > phishing I suppose. Apologies for my naivety! > > I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in > front of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No > mention of Antonio Roberts! > > I'll just take a look at the header for the email and get > back to you. Let's not take too much time in dealing with > this. > > Ed > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from > Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ > > > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with > dynamics! > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ > > > On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 13:41, Julian Brooks > <jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com> <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com>>> wrote: > > Is this some kind of so-dry-I-don't-get-it humour 'cos > they look well suss > > J > > > On 19 November 2013 13:21, Ed Kelly > <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>> wrote: > > Wow! > > Is the Pd foundation up and running? I haven't > followed the news (if there is any) regarding this. > > Perhaps this is within your scope Hans? > > Ed > > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app > from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ > > > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, > now with dynamics! > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ > > > On Monday, 18 November 2013, 19:53, Antonio > Roberts <antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> > <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>>> wrote: > > A representative of Packt Publishing recently > put out a call to > developers of open source software packages > that are covered in their > books to get in contact regarding royalties. > They claim that they give > money to the authors _and_ the project that > the book is based upon. > Text below: > > "I'm sorry that we haven't yet been able to > make this clear. I will > have this looked in to and revised for clarity. > But, to confirm, authors receive royalties on > sales of their books but > we also give a royalty, where the book is > based on an Open Source > software or system, to the Project. > I'm not at liberty to disclose the names of > projects that have > received this royalty, only that cumulatively > we have given out a > large sum of money to them. > Please also treat this as a call out to any > Open Source project that > we have published on to get in touch with me > should they not be > receiving their royalties, we can only send > them to you if we have > your details :) " > > Full thread here: > https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7Sir > <https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7Sir>See > last comment from Jonathan Titmus > > -- > ============================ > antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> > <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>> > http://www.hellocatfood.com <http://www.hellocatfood.com/> > <http://www.hellocatfood.com/> > ============================ > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-ot mailing list > Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at>> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-ot mailing list > Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at>> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot > > > > > > > > >
Nice to hear there’s a PD book :)
On Nov 19, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Antonio Roberts antonio@hellocatfood.com wrote:
Really sorry for my laziness. I just opened it and saw your name!!¬! Listen, we're really grateful for your support. There aren't enough books about Pure Data programming out there, and I'm sure my students will find this really helpful.
That's why I agreed to do it. I think there's plenty of resources out there for PD music/audio programming but none dedicated to just visuals. The book was a bit too basic for my needs, but it would've been invaluable to me three years ago!
Also, no need to thank me, I didn't write it! Regardless, I'm glad that you/your students will find it useful. I'm glad the book now exists, I just wish Packt were clearer on the whole royalties situation.
Once again, I think the person you need to talk to is Hans Cristoph-Steiner, but I am sure he'll read this thread.
Hopefully he will. Packt do a lot of books about open source software so I'll be interested in hearing if those projects get royalties/support as well.
We’ve had some dealings with Packt for the jMonkeyEngine Beginners Guide [http://www.packtpub.com/jmonkeyengine-3-0-with-java-programming-beginners-gu...] and have heard similar from them on contributing some royalties back to FOSS. The offer seemed quite real, though I don’t know anything in terms of sales numbers or if we’ve had any money find its way back to the project. I’d be happy to throw the question to the author though..
We don’t have any sort of entity set up around jME so there was some discussion a while back about where that money should funnel as it would ultimately go towards hosting costs.
Nice to meet you Antonio, even if it was slightly cack-handed from my end ;-)
No harm done ;-) Out of interest, where do you teach?
Antonio
On Tue 19 Nov 2013 15:40:35 GMT, Ed Kelly wrote:
Oh Man!
Really sorry for my laziness. I just opened it and saw your name!!¬! Listen, we're really grateful for your support. There aren't enough books about Pure Data programming out there, and I'm sure my students will find this really helpful.
Once again, I think the person you need to talk to is Hans Cristoph-Steiner, but I am sure he'll read this thread.
Nice to meet you Antonio, even if it was slightly cack-handed from my end ;-)
Ed
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/
On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 15:15, Antonio Roberts antonio@hellocatfood.com wrote:
I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in front
of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No mention of Antonio Roberts! I'm one of the tech reviewers ;-)
Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise
you'd
already published a book with them (blushing).
I didn't publish the book, just did a tech review of it. As I briefly said in a comment in the G+ thread, it wasn't a bad experience but not a great one either. I considered it a good way to give back to the community (yes, I know you have to buy the book) and get my name "out there", but now that I've done it once I won't be doing it again and definitely not for them ;-)
(on a separate note I'm also thinking about reviving the Pure Data Documentation Project)
To me it seems like Packt are a legitimate business but aer telling a few porkies with regards to royalties
On Tue 19 Nov 2013 14:24:23 GMT, Julian Brooks wrote:
Hey Ed (& Antonio),
Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise
you'd
already published a book with them (blushing).
My first comment was more from a reading of the original link that Antonio forwarded. And from that, Packt look well suss.
There's certainly no shortage of dodgy publishers about (nor record labels for that matter) - guess it depends on the deal you can
wangle.
On 19 November 2013 14:00, Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
<mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>
wrote:
PS Antonio, nice favicon :)
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with
dynamics!
On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
<mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
Damn - they changed Yahoo mail recently and I can't seem to find it. However, www.hellocatfood.com <http://www.hellocatfood.com
http://www.hellocatfood.com/> does indeed seem to be genuine,
and Antonio does indeed seem to be a performer with
multimedia
performer using Pure Data. This doesn't look like a hack, but "free money" should always be treated with suspicion I'm sure. Probably the best way forward is for one of us to get in
touch
with Packt publishing and request clarification. Cheers, Ed Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
<mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
Hmm. I couldn't get the post Antonio was referring to in his email. This could be a very sophisticated form of phishing I suppose. Apologies for my naivety! I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in front of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No mention of Antonio Roberts! I'll just take a look at the header for the email and get back to you. Let's not take too much time in dealing with this. Ed Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 13:41, Julian Brooks <jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com>
<mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com>> wrote:
Is this some kind of so-dry-I-don't-get-it humour
'cos
they look well suss J On 19 November 2013 13:21, Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
<mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
Wow! Is the Pd foundation up and running? I haven't followed the news (if there is any) regarding
this.
Perhaps this is within your scope Hans? Ed Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
On Monday, 18 November 2013, 19:53, Antonio Roberts <antonio@hellocatfood.com
mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com
<mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com
mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>> wrote:
A representative of Packt Publishing recently put out a call to developers of open source software packages that are covered in their books to get in contact regarding royalties. They claim that they give money to the authors _and_ the project that the book is based upon. Text below: "I'm sorry that we haven't yet been able to make this clear. I will have this looked in to and revised for
clarity.
But, to confirm, authors receive royalties on sales of their books but we also give a royalty, where the book is based on an Open Source software or system, to the Project. I'm not at liberty to disclose the names of projects that have received this royalty, only that cumulatively we have given out a large sum of money to them. Please also treat this as a call out to any Open Source project that we have published on to get in touch with me should they not be receiving their royalties, we can only send them to you if we have your details :) " Full thread here:
https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7Sir
https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7SirSee
last comment from Jonathan Titmus -- ============================
antonio@hellocatfood.com mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com
mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>
http://www.hellocatfood.com http://www.hellocatfood.com/ http://www.hellocatfood.com/ ============================
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Out of curiosity (and of course if there's anything sensitive in there then of course don't bother, but, I'd be really curious to see how the FLOSS contribution is worded in your contract? (I have an academic interest in these things)
Regards,
Julian
On 19 November 2013 16:15, Skye Book skye.book@gmail.com wrote:
Nice to hear there’s a PD book :)
On Nov 19, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Antonio Roberts antonio@hellocatfood.com wrote:
Really sorry for my laziness. I just opened it and saw your name!!¬! Listen, we're really grateful for your support. There aren't enough books about Pure Data programming out there, and I'm sure my students will find this really helpful.
That's why I agreed to do it. I think there's plenty of resources out
there for PD music/audio programming but none dedicated to just visuals. The book was a bit too basic for my needs, but it would've been invaluable to me three years ago!
Also, no need to thank me, I didn't write it! Regardless, I'm glad that
you/your students will find it useful. I'm glad the book now exists, I just wish Packt were clearer on the whole royalties situation.
Once again, I think the person you need to talk to is Hans Cristoph-Steiner, but I am sure he'll read this thread.
Hopefully he will. Packt do a lot of books about open source software so
I'll be interested in hearing if those projects get royalties/support as well.
We’ve had some dealings with Packt for the jMonkeyEngine Beginners Guide [ http://www.packtpub.com/jmonkeyengine-3-0-with-java-programming-beginners-gu...] and have heard similar from them on contributing some royalties back to FOSS. The offer seemed quite real, though I don’t know anything in terms of sales numbers or if we’ve had any money find its way back to the project. I’d be happy to throw the question to the author though..
We don’t have any sort of entity set up around jME so there was some discussion a while back about where that money should funnel as it would ultimately go towards hosting costs.
Nice to meet you Antonio, even if it was slightly cack-handed from my end ;-)
No harm done ;-) Out of interest, where do you teach?
Antonio
On Tue 19 Nov 2013 15:40:35 GMT, Ed Kelly wrote:
Oh Man!
Really sorry for my laziness. I just opened it and saw your name!!¬! Listen, we're really grateful for your support. There aren't enough books about Pure Data programming out there, and I'm sure my students will find this really helpful.
Once again, I think the person you need to talk to is Hans Cristoph-Steiner, but I am sure he'll read this thread.
Nice to meet you Antonio, even if it was slightly cack-handed from my end ;-)
Ed
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/
On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 15:15, Antonio Roberts antonio@hellocatfood.com wrote:
I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in front
of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No mention of Antonio Roberts! I'm one of the tech reviewers ;-)
Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise
you'd
already published a book with them (blushing).
I didn't publish the book, just did a tech review of it. As I briefly said in a comment in the G+ thread, it wasn't a bad experience but not a great one either. I considered it a good way to give back to the community (yes, I know you have to buy the book) and get my name "out there", but now that I've done it once I won't be doing it again and definitely not for them ;-)
(on a separate note I'm also thinking about reviving the Pure Data Documentation Project)
To me it seems like Packt are a legitimate business but aer telling a few porkies with regards to royalties
On Tue 19 Nov 2013 14:24:23 GMT, Julian Brooks wrote:
Hey Ed (& Antonio),
Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise
you'd
already published a book with them (blushing).
My first comment was more from a reading of the original link that Antonio forwarded. And from that, Packt look well suss.
There's certainly no shortage of dodgy publishers about (nor record labels for that matter) - guess it depends on the deal you can
wangle.
On 19 November 2013 14:00, Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
<mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>
wrote:
PS Antonio, nice favicon :)
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with
dynamics!
On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
<mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
Damn - they changed Yahoo mail recently and I can't seem to find it. However, www.hellocatfood.com <http://www.hellocatfood.com
http://www.hellocatfood.com/> does indeed seem to be genuine,
and Antonio does indeed seem to be a performer with
multimedia
performer using Pure Data. This doesn't look like a hack, but "free money" should
always
be treated with suspicion I'm sure. Probably the best way forward is for one of us to get in
touch
with Packt publishing and request clarification. Cheers, Ed Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
<mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
Hmm. I couldn't get the post Antonio was referring to in his email. This could be a very sophisticated form of phishing I suppose. Apologies for my naivety! I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in front of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No mention of Antonio Roberts! I'll just take a look at the header for the email and get back to you. Let's not take too much time in dealing
with
this. Ed Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now
with
dynamics!
On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 13:41, Julian Brooks <jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com>
<mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com>> wrote:
Is this some kind of so-dry-I-don't-get-it humour
'cos
they look well suss J On 19 November 2013 13:21, Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
<mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
Wow! Is the Pd foundation up and running? I haven't followed the news (if there is any) regarding
this.
Perhaps this is within your scope Hans? Ed Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
On Monday, 18 November 2013, 19:53, Antonio Roberts <antonio@hellocatfood.com
mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com
<mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com
mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>> wrote:
A representative of Packt Publishing
recently
put out a call to developers of open source software packages that are covered in their books to get in contact regarding royalties. They claim that they give money to the authors _and_ the project that the book is based upon. Text below: "I'm sorry that we haven't yet been able to make this clear. I will have this looked in to and revised for
clarity.
But, to confirm, authors receive royalties
on
sales of their books but we also give a royalty, where the book is based on an Open Source software or system, to the Project. I'm not at liberty to disclose the names of projects that have received this royalty, only that
cumulatively
we have given out a large sum of money to them. Please also treat this as a call out to any Open Source project that we have published on to get in touch with me should they not be receiving their royalties, we can only send them to you if we have your details :) " Full thread here:
https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7Sir
https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7SirSee
last comment from Jonathan Titmus -- ============================
antonio@hellocatfood.com mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com
mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>
http://www.hellocatfood.com http://www.hellocatfood.com/ http://www.hellocatfood.com/ ============================
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Addressing me on this? I didn't have a contract as I was just a tech reviewer. Bryan Chung http://www.magicandlove.com/ is the author and the one I presume had a contract
On 19/11/13 18:35, Julian Brooks wrote:
Out of curiosity (and of course if there's anything sensitive in there then of course don't bother, but, I'd be really curious to see how the FLOSS contribution is worded in your contract? (I have an academic interest in these things)
Regards,
Julian
On 19 November 2013 16:15, Skye Book <skye.book@gmail.com mailto:skye.book@gmail.com> wrote:
Nice to hear there’s a PD book :) On Nov 19, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Antonio Roberts <antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>> wrote: >> Really sorry for my laziness. I just opened it and saw your name!!¬! >> Listen, we're really grateful for your support. There aren't enough >> books about Pure Data programming out there, and I'm sure my students >> will find this really helpful. > That's why I agreed to do it. I think there's plenty of resources out there for PD music/audio programming but none dedicated to just visuals. The book was a bit too basic for my needs, but it would've been invaluable to me three years ago! > > Also, no need to thank me, I didn't write it! Regardless, I'm glad that you/your students will find it useful. I'm glad the book now exists, I just wish Packt were clearer on the whole royalties situation. > >> Once again, I think the person you need to talk to is Hans >> Cristoph-Steiner, but I am sure he'll read this thread. > Hopefully he will. Packt do a lot of books about open source software so I'll be interested in hearing if those projects get royalties/support as well. We’ve had some dealings with Packt for the jMonkeyEngine Beginners Guide [http://www.packtpub.com/jmonkeyengine-3-0-with-java-programming-beginners-guide/book] and have heard similar from them on contributing some royalties back to FOSS. The offer seemed quite real, though I don’t know anything in terms of sales numbers or if we’ve had any money find its way back to the project. I’d be happy to throw the question to the author though.. We don’t have any sort of entity set up around jME so there was some discussion a while back about where that money should funnel as it would ultimately go towards hosting costs. > >> Nice to meet you Antonio, even if it was slightly cack-handed from my >> end ;-) > No harm done ;-) Out of interest, where do you teach? > > Antonio > > On Tue 19 Nov 2013 15:40:35 GMT, Ed Kelly wrote: >> Oh Man! >> >> Really sorry for my laziness. I just opened it and saw your name!!¬! >> Listen, we're really grateful for your support. There aren't enough >> books about Pure Data programming out there, and I'm sure my students >> will find this really helpful. >> >> Once again, I think the person you need to talk to is Hans >> Cristoph-Steiner, but I am sure he'll read this thread. >> >> Nice to meet you Antonio, even if it was slightly cack-handed from my >> end ;-) >> >> Ed >> >> Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and >> Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> >> >> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! >> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> >> >> On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 15:15, Antonio Roberts >> <antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>> wrote: >> >> >> > I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in front >> of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No mention of >> Antonio Roberts! >> I'm one of the tech reviewers ;-) >> >> > Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise >> you'd >> > already published a book with them (blushing). >> I didn't publish the book, just did a tech review of it. As I briefly >> said in a comment in the G+ thread, it wasn't a bad experience but >> not >> a great one either. I considered it a good way to give back to the >> community (yes, I know you have to buy the book) and get my name "out >> there", but now that I've done it once I won't be doing it again and >> definitely not for them ;-) >> >> (on a separate note I'm also thinking about reviving the Pure Data >> Documentation Project) >> >> To me it seems like Packt are a legitimate business but aer telling a >> few porkies with regards to royalties >> >> On Tue 19 Nov 2013 14:24:23 GMT, Julian Brooks wrote: >> > Hey Ed (& Antonio), >> > >> > Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise >> you'd >> > already published a book with them (blushing). >> > >> > My first comment was more from a reading of the original link that >> > Antonio forwarded. And from that, Packt look well suss. >> > >> > There's certainly no shortage of dodgy publishers about (nor record >> > labels for that matter) - guess it depends on the deal you can >> wangle. >> > >> > >> > On 19 November 2013 14:00, Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> >> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>>> >> wrote: >> > >> > PS Antonio, nice favicon :) >> > >> > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune >> > and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> > >> > >> > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with >> dynamics! >> > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> > >> > >> > On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> >> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>>> wrote: >> > >> > Damn - they changed Yahoo mail recently and I can't seem to >> > find it. However, www.hellocatfood.com <http://www.hellocatfood.com> >> > <http://www.hellocatfood.com >> <http://www.hellocatfood.com/>> does indeed seem to be genuine, >> > and Antonio does indeed seem to be a performer with >> multimedia >> > performer using Pure Data. >> > >> > This doesn't look like a hack, but "free money" should always >> > be treated with suspicion I'm sure. >> > >> > Probably the best way forward is for one of us to get in >> touch >> > with Packt publishing and request clarification. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Ed >> > >> > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja >> > Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> > >> > >> > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with >> > dynamics! >> > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> > >> > >> > On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> >> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>>> wrote: >> > >> > Hmm. I couldn't get the post Antonio was referring to in >> > his email. This could be a very sophisticated form of >> > phishing I suppose. Apologies for my naivety! >> > >> > I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in >> > front of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No >> > mention of Antonio Roberts! >> > >> > I'll just take a look at the header for the email and get >> > back to you. Let's not take too much time in dealing with >> > this. >> > >> > Ed >> > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from >> > Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> > >> > >> > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with >> > dynamics! >> > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> > >> > >> > On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 13:41, Julian Brooks >> > <jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com> <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com>> >> <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com> <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com>>>> wrote: >> > >> > Is this some kind of so-dry-I-don't-get-it humour >> 'cos >> > they look well suss >> > >> > J >> > >> > >> > On 19 November 2013 13:21, Ed Kelly >> > <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> >> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>>> wrote: >> > >> > Wow! >> > >> > Is the Pd foundation up and running? I haven't >> > followed the news (if there is any) regarding >> this. >> > >> > Perhaps this is within your scope Hans? >> > >> > Ed >> > >> > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app >> > from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> > >> > >> > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, >> > now with dynamics! >> > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> > >> > >> > On Monday, 18 November 2013, 19:53, Antonio >> > Roberts <antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> >> <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>> >> > <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> >> <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>>>> wrote: >> > >> > A representative of Packt Publishing recently >> > put out a call to >> > developers of open source software packages >> > that are covered in their >> > books to get in contact regarding royalties. >> > They claim that they give >> > money to the authors _and_ the project that >> > the book is based upon. >> > Text below: >> > >> > "I'm sorry that we haven't yet been able to >> > make this clear. I will >> > have this looked in to and revised for >> clarity. >> > But, to confirm, authors receive royalties on >> > sales of their books but >> > we also give a royalty, where the book is >> > based on an Open Source >> > software or system, to the Project. >> > I'm not at liberty to disclose the names of >> > projects that have >> > received this royalty, only that cumulatively >> > we have given out a >> > large sum of money to them. >> > Please also treat this as a call out to any >> > Open Source project that >> > we have published on to get in touch with me >> > should they not be >> > receiving their royalties, we can only send >> > them to you if we have >> > your details :) " >> > >> > Full thread here: >> > https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7Sir >> > >> <https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7Sir>See >> > last comment from Jonathan Titmus >> > >> > -- >> > ============================ >> > antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>> >> > <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> >> <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>>> >> > http://www.hellocatfood.com <http://www.hellocatfood.com/> >> > <http://www.hellocatfood.com/> >> > ============================ >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > Pd-ot mailing list >> > Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at>> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> >> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at>>> >> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pd-ot mailing list >> > Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at>> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> >> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at>>> >> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-ot mailing list > Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot _______________________________________________ Pd-ot mailing list Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
Ok - aaargh - I've not been accurate or explicit, and again - sorry.
Antonio - I get you're the reviewer (didn't at first), took me a while but I'm on it now (and btw in academia most reviews, peer or otherwise, are in my experience strictly for kudos so getting something is better than bugger all - if it materialises of course).
The question was aimed at Skye (should have stated that directly).
I'm curious about these things as I've never come across this in practice before and would like to see how it's formalised, that's all.
Regards,
Julian
On 19 November 2013 18:44, Antonio Roberts antonio@hellocatfood.com wrote:
Addressing me on this? I didn't have a contract as I was just a tech reviewer. Bryan Chung http://www.magicandlove.com/ is the author and the one I presume had a contract
On 19/11/13 18:35, Julian Brooks wrote:
Out of curiosity (and of course if there's anything sensitive in there then of course don't bother, but, I'd be really curious to see how the FLOSS contribution is worded in your contract? (I have an academic interest in these things)
Regards,
Julian
On 19 November 2013 16:15, Skye Book <skye.book@gmail.com mailto:skye.book@gmail.com> wrote:
Nice to hear there’s a PD book :) On Nov 19, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Antonio Roberts <antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>> wrote: >> Really sorry for my laziness. I just opened it and saw your
name!!¬! >> Listen, we're really grateful for your support. There aren't enough >> books about Pure Data programming out there, and I'm sure my students >> will find this really helpful. > That's why I agreed to do it. I think there's plenty of resources out there for PD music/audio programming but none dedicated to just visuals. The book was a bit too basic for my needs, but it would've been invaluable to me three years ago! > > Also, no need to thank me, I didn't write it! Regardless, I'm glad that you/your students will find it useful. I'm glad the book now exists, I just wish Packt were clearer on the whole royalties situation. > >> Once again, I think the person you need to talk to is Hans >> Cristoph-Steiner, but I am sure he'll read this thread. > Hopefully he will. Packt do a lot of books about open source software so I'll be interested in hearing if those projects get royalties/support as well.
We’ve had some dealings with Packt for the jMonkeyEngine Beginners Guide [http://www.packtpub.com/jmonkeyengine-3-0-with-java-
programming-beginners-guide/book] and have heard similar from them on contributing some royalties back to FOSS. The offer seemed quite real, though I don’t know anything in terms of sales numbers or if we’ve had any money find its way back to the project. I’d be happy to throw the question to the author though..
We don’t have any sort of entity set up around jME so there was some discussion a while back about where that money should funnel as it would ultimately go towards hosting costs. > >> Nice to meet you Antonio, even if it was slightly cack-handed from my >> end ;-) > No harm done ;-) Out of interest, where do you teach? > > Antonio > > On Tue 19 Nov 2013 15:40:35 GMT, Ed Kelly wrote: >> Oh Man! >> >> Really sorry for my laziness. I just opened it and saw your
name!!¬! >> Listen, we're really grateful for your support. There aren't enough >> books about Pure Data programming out there, and I'm sure my students >> will find this really helpful. >> >> Once again, I think the person you need to talk to is Hans >> Cristoph-Steiner, but I am sure he'll read this thread. >> >> Nice to meet you Antonio, even if it was slightly cack-handed from my >> end ;-) >> >> Ed >> >> Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and >> Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> >> >> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! >> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> >> >> On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 15:15, Antonio Roberts >> <antonio@hellocatfood.com mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> wrote: >> >> >> > I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in front >> of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No mention of >> Antonio Roberts! >> I'm one of the tech reviewers ;-) >> >> > Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise >> you'd >> > already published a book with them (blushing). >> I didn't publish the book, just did a tech review of it. As I briefly >> said in a comment in the G+ thread, it wasn't a bad experience but >> not >> a great one either. I considered it a good way to give back to the >> community (yes, I know you have to buy the book) and get my name "out >> there", but now that I've done it once I won't be doing it again and >> definitely not for them ;-) >> >> (on a separate note I'm also thinking about reviving the Pure Data >> Documentation Project) >> >> To me it seems like Packt are a legitimate business but aer telling a >> few porkies with regards to royalties >> >> On Tue 19 Nov 2013 14:24:23 GMT, Julian Brooks wrote: >> > Hey Ed (& Antonio), >> > >> > Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise >> you'd >> > already published a book with them (blushing). >> > >> > My first comment was more from a reading of the original link that >> > Antonio forwarded. And from that, Packt look well suss. >> > >> > There's certainly no shortage of dodgy publishers about (nor record >> > labels for that matter) - guess it depends on the deal you can >> wangle. >> > >> > >> > On 19 November 2013 14:00, Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
>> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>>> >> wrote: >> > >> > PS Antonio, nice favicon :) >> > >> > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune >> > and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> > >> > >> > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with >> dynamics! >> > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> > >> > >> > On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
>> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>>> wrote: >> > >> > Damn - they changed Yahoo mail recently and I can't seem to >> > find it. However, www.hellocatfood.com <http://www.hellocatfood.com> >> > <http://www.hellocatfood.com >> <http://www.hellocatfood.com/>> does indeed seem to be
genuine, >> > and Antonio does indeed seem to be a performer with >> multimedia >> > performer using Pure Data. >> > >> > This doesn't look like a hack, but "free money" should always >> > be treated with suspicion I'm sure. >> > >> > Probably the best way forward is for one of us to get in >> touch >> > with Packt publishing and request clarification. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Ed >> > >> > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja >> > Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> > >> > >> > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with >> > dynamics! >> > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> > >> > >> > On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
>> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>>> wrote: >> > >> > Hmm. I couldn't get the post Antonio was referring to in >> > his email. This could be a very sophisticated form of >> > phishing I suppose. Apologies for my naivety! >> > >> > I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in >> > front of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No >> > mention of Antonio Roberts! >> > >> > I'll just take a look at the header for the email and get >> > back to you. Let's not take too much time in dealing with >> > this. >> > >> > Ed >> > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from >> > Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> > >> > >> > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with >> > dynamics! >> > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> > >> > >> > On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 13:41, Julian Brooks >> > <jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com> <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com>> >> <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com> <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com>>>> wrote: >> > >> > Is this some kind of so-dry-I-don't-get-it humour >> 'cos >> > they look well suss >> > >> > J >> > >> > >> > On 19 November 2013 13:21, Ed Kelly >> > <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk
>> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>>> wrote: >> > >> > Wow! >> > >> > Is the Pd foundation up and running? I haven't >> > followed the news (if there is any) regarding >> this. >> > >> > Perhaps this is within your scope Hans? >> > >> > Ed >> > >> > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app >> > from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> > >> > >> > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, >> > now with dynamics! >> > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> > >> > >> > On Monday, 18 November 2013, 19:53,
Antonio >> > Roberts <antonio@hellocatfood.com mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com >> <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> >> > <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com >> <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>>> wrote: >> > >> > A representative of Packt Publishing recently >> > put out a call to >> > developers of open source software packages >> > that are covered in their >> > books to get in contact regarding royalties. >> > They claim that they give >> > money to the authors _and_ the project that >> > the book is based upon. >> > Text below: >> > >> > "I'm sorry that we haven't yet been able to >> > make this clear. I will >> > have this looked in to and revised for >> clarity. >> > But, to confirm, authors receive royalties on >> > sales of their books but >> > we also give a royalty, where the book is >> > based on an Open Source >> > software or system, to the Project. >> > I'm not at liberty to disclose the names of >> > projects that have >> > received this royalty, only that cumulatively >> > we have given out a >> > large sum of money to them. >> > Please also treat this as a call out to any >> > Open Source project that >> > we have published on to get in touch with me >> > should they not be >> > receiving their royalties, we can only send >> > them to you if we have >> > your details :) " >> > >> > Full thread here: >> > https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/ PDVcovR7Sir >> > >> <https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7Sir
See
>> > last comment from Jonathan Titmus >> > >> > -- >> > ============================ >> > antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>> >> > <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> >> <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>>> >> > http://www.hellocatfood.com <http://www.hellocatfood.com/> >> > <http://www.hellocatfood.com/> >> > ============================ >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > Pd-ot mailing list >> > Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at>> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> >> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at>>> >> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pd-ot mailing list >> > Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at>> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> >> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at>>> >> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-ot mailing list > Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot _______________________________________________ Pd-ot mailing list Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
I’m frankly not sure what’s in the contract as that’s between the author and Packt, but I’ll ask her if there was anything in there about the contributions. The way we [or at least I] found out about this policy was an email that was sent before the book’s release. A cursory Googling actually returns some info from their website [1]. Based on the information that Antonio pasted in (and the reply from whence it came in G+), it seems like the terms around this are privileged information. The email was clear, however, that if you sent them the appropriate information that they would send royalties. I’ve put in an email to the author of the jME book as well as one of the other project stewards to help clarify, will let you all know what I hear back.
I will say though, that Packt reached out to us via the contact link on the jME website to mention their royalties, which in my mind is bounds better than a silent policy that you have to stumble upon and beg for. Just some food for thought.
[1] http://www.packtpub.com/article/packt_open_source_royalties
On Nov 19, 2013, at 2:11 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Ok - aaargh - I've not been accurate or explicit, and again - sorry.
Antonio - I get you're the reviewer (didn't at first), took me a while but I'm on it now (and btw in academia most reviews, peer or otherwise, are in my experience strictly for kudos so getting something is better than bugger all - if it materialises of course).
The question was aimed at Skye (should have stated that directly).
I'm curious about these things as I've never come across this in practice before and would like to see how it's formalised, that's all.
Regards,
Julian
On 19 November 2013 18:44, Antonio Roberts antonio@hellocatfood.com wrote: Addressing me on this? I didn't have a contract as I was just a tech reviewer. Bryan Chung http://www.magicandlove.com/ is the author and the one I presume had a contract
On 19/11/13 18:35, Julian Brooks wrote: Out of curiosity (and of course if there's anything sensitive in there then of course don't bother, but, I'd be really curious to see how the FLOSS contribution is worded in your contract? (I have an academic interest in these things)
Regards,
Julian
On 19 November 2013 16:15, Skye Book <skye.book@gmail.com mailto:skye.book@gmail.com> wrote:
Nice to hear there’s a PD book :) On Nov 19, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Antonio Roberts <antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>> wrote: >> Really sorry for my laziness. I just opened it and saw your name!!¬! >> Listen, we're really grateful for your support. There aren't enough >> books about Pure Data programming out there, and I'm sure my students >> will find this really helpful. > That's why I agreed to do it. I think there's plenty of resources out there for PD music/audio programming but none dedicated to just visuals. The book was a bit too basic for my needs, but it would've been invaluable to me three years ago! > > Also, no need to thank me, I didn't write it! Regardless, I'm glad that you/your students will find it useful. I'm glad the book now exists, I just wish Packt were clearer on the whole royalties situation. > >> Once again, I think the person you need to talk to is Hans >> Cristoph-Steiner, but I am sure he'll read this thread. > Hopefully he will. Packt do a lot of books about open source software so I'll be interested in hearing if those projects get royalties/support as well. We’ve had some dealings with Packt for the jMonkeyEngine Beginners Guide [http://www.packtpub.com/jmonkeyengine-3-0-with-java-programming-beginners-guide/book] and have heard similar from them on contributing some royalties back to FOSS. The offer seemed quite real, though I don’t know anything in terms of sales numbers or if we’ve had any money find its way back to the project. I’d be happy to throw the question to the author though.. We don’t have any sort of entity set up around jME so there was some discussion a while back about where that money should funnel as it would ultimately go towards hosting costs. > >> Nice to meet you Antonio, even if it was slightly cack-handed from my >> end ;-) > No harm done ;-) Out of interest, where do you teach? > > Antonio > > On Tue 19 Nov 2013 15:40:35 GMT, Ed Kelly wrote: >> Oh Man! >> >> Really sorry for my laziness. I just opened it and saw your name!!¬! >> Listen, we're really grateful for your support. There aren't enough >> books about Pure Data programming out there, and I'm sure my students >> will find this really helpful. >> >> Once again, I think the person you need to talk to is Hans >> Cristoph-Steiner, but I am sure he'll read this thread. >> >> Nice to meet you Antonio, even if it was slightly cack-handed from my >> end ;-) >> >> Ed >> >> Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and >> Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> >> >> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! >> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> >> >> On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 15:15, Antonio Roberts >> <antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>> wrote: >> >> >> > I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in front >> of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No mention of >> Antonio Roberts! >> I'm one of the tech reviewers ;-) >> >> > Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise >> you'd >> > already published a book with them (blushing). >> I didn't publish the book, just did a tech review of it. As I briefly >> said in a comment in the G+ thread, it wasn't a bad experience but >> not >> a great one either. I considered it a good way to give back to the >> community (yes, I know you have to buy the book) and get my name "out >> there", but now that I've done it once I won't be doing it again and >> definitely not for them ;-) >> >> (on a separate note I'm also thinking about reviving the Pure Data >> Documentation Project) >> >> To me it seems like Packt are a legitimate business but aer telling a >> few porkies with regards to royalties >> >> On Tue 19 Nov 2013 14:24:23 GMT, Julian Brooks wrote: >> > Hey Ed (& Antonio), >> > >> > Well in that case I apologise. Sorry Antonio, I didn't realise >> you'd >> > already published a book with them (blushing). >> > >> > My first comment was more from a reading of the original link that >> > Antonio forwarded. And from that, Packt look well suss. >> > >> > There's certainly no shortage of dodgy publishers about (nor record >> > labels for that matter) - guess it depends on the deal you can >> wangle. >> > >> > >> > On 19 November 2013 14:00, Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> >> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>>> >> wrote: >> > >> > PS Antonio, nice favicon :) >> > >> > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune >> > and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> > >> > >> > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with >> dynamics! >> > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> > >> > >> > On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> >> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>>> wrote: >> > >> > Damn - they changed Yahoo mail recently and I can't seem to >> > find it. However, www.hellocatfood.com <http://www.hellocatfood.com> >> > <http://www.hellocatfood.com >> <http://www.hellocatfood.com/>> does indeed seem to be genuine, >> > and Antonio does indeed seem to be a performer with >> multimedia >> > performer using Pure Data. >> > >> > This doesn't look like a hack, but "free money" should always >> > be treated with suspicion I'm sure. >> > >> > Probably the best way forward is for one of us to get in >> touch >> > with Packt publishing and request clarification. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Ed >> > >> > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja >> > Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> > >> > >> > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with >> > dynamics! >> > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> > >> > >> > On , Ed Kelly <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> >> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>>> wrote: >> > >> > Hmm. I couldn't get the post Antonio was referring to in >> > his email. This could be a very sophisticated form of >> > phishing I suppose. Apologies for my naivety! >> > >> > I have the book "Multimedia Programming in Pure Data" in >> > front of me, published by Packt, by Brian WC Chung. No >> > mention of Antonio Roberts! >> > >> > I'll just take a look at the header for the email and get >> > back to you. Let's not take too much time in dealing with >> > this. >> > >> > Ed >> > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from >> > Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> > >> > >> > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with >> > dynamics! >> > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> > >> > >> > On Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 13:41, Julian Brooks >> > <jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com> <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com>> >> <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com> <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com <mailto:jbeezez@gmail.com>>>> wrote: >> > >> > Is this some kind of so-dry-I-don't-get-it humour >> 'cos >> > they look well suss >> > >> > J >> > >> > >> > On 19 November 2013 13:21, Ed Kelly >> > <morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>> >> > <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk> >> <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk>>>> wrote: >> > >> > Wow! >> > >> > Is the Pd foundation up and running? I haven't >> > followed the news (if there is any) regarding >> this. >> > >> > Perhaps this is within your scope Hans? >> > >> > Ed >> > >> > Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app >> > from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad >> > http://www.ninjajamm.com/ >> > >> > >> > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, >> > now with dynamics! >> > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> > >> > >> > On Monday, 18 November 2013, 19:53, Antonio >> > Roberts <antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> >> <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>> >> > <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> >> <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>>>> wrote: >> > >> > A representative of Packt Publishing recently >> > put out a call to >> > developers of open source software packages >> > that are covered in their >> > books to get in contact regarding royalties. >> > They claim that they give >> > money to the authors _and_ the project that >> > the book is based upon. >> > Text below: >> > >> > "I'm sorry that we haven't yet been able to >> > make this clear. I will >> > have this looked in to and revised for >> clarity. >> > But, to confirm, authors receive royalties on >> > sales of their books but >> > we also give a royalty, where the book is >> > based on an Open Source >> > software or system, to the Project. >> > I'm not at liberty to disclose the names of >> > projects that have >> > received this royalty, only that cumulatively >> > we have given out a >> > large sum of money to them. >> > Please also treat this as a call out to any >> > Open Source project that >> > we have published on to get in touch with me >> > should they not be >> > receiving their royalties, we can only send >> > them to you if we have >> > your details :) " >> > >> > Full thread here: >> > https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7Sir >> > >> <https://plus.google.com/113862800338869870683/posts/PDVcovR7Sir>See >> > last comment from Jonathan Titmus >> > >> > -- >> > ============================ >> > antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>> >> > <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com> >> <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com <mailto:antonio@hellocatfood.com>>> >> > http://www.hellocatfood.com <http://www.hellocatfood.com/> >> > <http://www.hellocatfood.com/> >> > ============================ >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > Pd-ot mailing list >> > Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at>> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> >> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at>>> >> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pd-ot mailing list >> > Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at>> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> >> <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at>>> >> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-ot mailing list > Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot _______________________________________________ Pd-ot mailing list Pd-ot@iem.at <mailto:Pd-ot@iem.at> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot