hey guys
just wanted to let you know that i'd be interessted in helping to design the portal.
i made some major changes to the plone 2.0 skin (yes i'm a plone developer), which is extremely flexible now and has a tableless layout (which is flexible and "browser-independent" too).
you can change nearly everything regarding the design with the ploneCustom.css file now. even make a fake 4+ column design and replace text (like the tabs, or the column box [portlet] headers) with images.
(that sounds like i'm a marketing guy :P)
if you're interested and you know somebody with great graphical skills, get him/her to mail me a an approved new layout/design (or i can make a proposal too), and i'll send you the files i changed ;) but migration should be done when 2.0 final arrives (betas or cvs is never that good if you use it for production).
regards, michael
Hallo, Michael Zeltner hat gesagt: // Michael Zeltner wrote:
just wanted to let you know that i'd be interessted in helping to design the portal.
Wonderful.
i made some major changes to the plone 2.0 skin (yes i'm a plone developer), which is extremely flexible now and has a tableless layout (which is flexible and "browser-independent" too).
Wonderful++!
you can change nearly everything regarding the design with the ploneCustom.css file now. even make a fake 4+ column design and replace text (like the tabs, or the column box [portlet] headers) with images.
Not his is just: wonderful!
(that sounds like i'm a marketing guy :P)
if you're interested and you know somebody with great graphical skills, get him/her to mail me a an approved new layout/design (or i can make a proposal too), and i'll send you the files i changed ;) but migration should be done when 2.0 final arrives (betas or cvs is never that good if you use it for production).
Actually I think, that no one is currently working on the graphical side. I would like to change the logo someday, because the color(s) just doesn't match the rest of the page. (I think it was planned to make a whole skin, but it didn't work out yet obviously).
Is your skin visible somewhere? And if I understand it correctly, then it would require a plone update, wouldn't it? Then Winfried would have the last word about it.
ciao
Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo,
heyho ;)
Actually I think, that no one is currently working on the graphical side. I would like to change the logo someday, because the color(s) just doesn't match the rest of the page.
okay, so i'll set up an instance with a new design (is there a pd.org ci? or can i do "what i want"? logo too?) as prosposal.
i can show you a kind of a graphical portfolio if you want me to.
don't expect me to finish the portal within the next two weeks, i'm currently very busy :)
(I think it was planned to make a whole skin, but it didn't work out yet obviously).
making skins for plone 1.0 is very risky. the 1.0 skin architecture was pure hell, so migrating from a heavily changed 1.0 skin will be nearly impossible... 2.0 is much more modular. but as i said, most of the time, changes to the templates aren't necessary because nearly everything is changeable with css.
Is your skin visible somewhere?
you can test the skin with the plone 2.0b1 tarball or just see it on test.plone.org. it looks like plone looked in 1.0 (because a part of plone is it's ui) but the code is different: accessible (wcag-aaa - section 508) and flexible (tableless - more ids/classes - more semantic code block positions, id allocation, classification).
And if I understand it correctly, then it would require a plone update, wouldn't it? Then Winfried would have the last word about it.
yes, you would need to update to plone 2.0 which is currently in beta state - we expect it to be final in about 20-30 days.
ciao
regards, michael
Hallo, Michael Zeltner hat gesagt: // Michael Zeltner wrote:
Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo,
heyho ;)
Actually I think, that no one is currently working on the graphical side. I would like to change the logo someday, because the color(s) just doesn't match the rest of the page.
okay, so i'll set up an instance with a new design (is there a pd.org ci?
What's a "ci"? What happens to pd.org content and design-wise is bysically decided here on this list, but as IEM hosts the site, all technical things have to go through them, i.e. Winfried Ritsch. I don't know IEM's plan's regarding a migration to plone 2.0, but at least for pd.org it might not be a big problem: We don't have much content yet and the skin is almost the default.
or can i do "what i want"? logo too?) as prosposal.
It would be nice to see a proposal in advance, so nobody feels bad with it, but until now nobody has done much graphics anyway.
i can show you a kind of a graphical portfolio if you want me to.
don't expect me to finish the portal within the next two weeks, i'm currently very busy :)
(I think it was planned to make a whole skin, but it didn't work out yet obviously).
making skins for plone 1.0 is very risky. the 1.0 skin architecture was pure hell, so migrating from a heavily changed 1.0 skin will be nearly impossible... 2.0 is much more modular. but as i said, most of the time, changes to the templates aren't necessary because nearly everything is changeable with css.
Is your skin visible somewhere?
you can test the skin with the plone 2.0b1 tarball or just see it on test.plone.org. it looks like plone looked in 1.0 (because a part of plone is it's ui) but the code is different: accessible (wcag-aaa - section 508) and flexible (tableless - more ids/classes - more semantic code block positions, id allocation, classification).
This sounds very good. I tried to get the grips on skinning pd.org and seeing dtml once again made me stop rather immediatly, although I'm a bit comfortable with the CMF (if you search the CMF mailing list archives from waaaay back - ~5 years ago -, you might still find my name there ;)
Fortunatly web standards have come a long way since then, too, so it's good to hear that Plone goes CSS skinning, like on csszengarden.com which you have linked, too.
ciao
Wow, http://csszengarden.com is impressive. It would be great if we could do this with pd.org and then have any member able to submit a CSS, which would be selectable as a preference. Then we could also have 'guess appearances' on the front page of the various designs.
.hc
On Sunday, Sep 28, 2003, at 15:57 America/New_York, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Michael Zeltner hat gesagt: // Michael Zeltner wrote:
Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo,
heyho ;)
Actually I think, that no one is currently working on the graphical side. I would like to change the logo someday, because the color(s) just doesn't match the rest of the page.
okay, so i'll set up an instance with a new design (is there a pd.org ci?
What's a "ci"? What happens to pd.org content and design-wise is bysically decided here on this list, but as IEM hosts the site, all technical things have to go through them, i.e. Winfried Ritsch. I don't know IEM's plan's regarding a migration to plone 2.0, but at least for pd.org it might not be a big problem: We don't have much content yet and the skin is almost the default.
or can i do "what i want"? logo too?) as prosposal.
It would be nice to see a proposal in advance, so nobody feels bad with it, but until now nobody has done much graphics anyway.
i can show you a kind of a graphical portfolio if you want me to.
don't expect me to finish the portal within the next two weeks, i'm currently very busy :)
(I think it was planned to make a whole skin, but it didn't work out yet obviously).
making skins for plone 1.0 is very risky. the 1.0 skin architecture was pure hell, so migrating from a heavily changed 1.0 skin will be nearly impossible... 2.0 is much more modular. but as i said, most of the time, changes to the templates aren't necessary because nearly everything is changeable with css.
Is your skin visible somewhere?
you can test the skin with the plone 2.0b1 tarball or just see it on test.plone.org. it looks like plone looked in 1.0 (because a part of plone is it's ui) but the code is different: accessible (wcag-aaa - section 508) and flexible (tableless - more ids/classes - more semantic code block positions, id allocation, classification).
This sounds very good. I tried to get the grips on skinning pd.org and seeing dtml once again made me stop rather immediatly, although I'm a bit comfortable with the CMF (if you search the CMF mailing list archives from waaaay back - ~5 years ago -, you might still find my name there ;)
Fortunatly web standards have come a long way since then, too, so it's good to hear that Plone goes CSS skinning, like on csszengarden.com which you have linked, too.
ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
Pdweb mailing list Pdweb@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pdweb
Frank Barknecht wrote:
What's a "ci"?
corporate identity - a style (color, form, whatever) guide - a standardised part-theoretical design
What happens to pd.org content and design-wise is bysically decided here on this list, but as IEM hosts the site, all technical things have to go through them, i.e. Winfried Ritsch.
oh i "know" him ;) i mailed him about my interest about 1 or 2 months ago ;) he also hosted webforce.at, but we have our own server now ;)
I don't know IEM's plan's regarding a migration to plone 2.0, but at least for pd.org it might not be a big problem:
if you have your own instance that's no problem at all ;) because then you don't have to migrate other portals
We don't have much content yet and the skin is almost the default
yes, plonish ;) - boring after the year i know it (the default plone skin) ;)
It would be nice to see a proposal in advance, so nobody feels bad with it, but until now nobody has done much graphics anyway.
cool - maybe i'll get joe geldart to make a cool logo - i'm not that talented in vector graphics.
This sounds very good. I tried to get the grips on skinning pd.org and seeing dtml once again made me stop rather immediatly, although I'm a bit comfortable with the CMF (if you search the CMF mailing list archives from waaaay back - ~5 years ago -, you might still find my name there ;)
dtml in plone? - you're joking right? ;) there are only ~6 dtml files - javascripts and css files, which are not xml so you can forget me/tal (zpt) there.
Fortunatly web standards have come a long way since then, too, so it's good to hear that Plone goes CSS skinning, like on csszengarden.com which you have linked, too.
webstandards... we could throw away these loads of sementic bullshit (sorry) if every browser supported them... css 3 will be a huge step, for a more sementic web, but it seems like we have to wait ~5 years until we can really use it... look at ie 6 - it's 2 years around now. we'll have to support it for at least 3 years from now on. *sigh* :(
ciao
michael
Hallo,
Michael Zeltner hat gesagt: // Michael Zeltner wrote:
Frank Barknecht wrote:
What's a "ci"?
corporate identity - a style (color, form, whatever) guide - a standardised part-theoretical design
Ah. I thought it was ci(1) ("ci - check in RCS revisions")... Well, Pd has a strong tradition of incorporating a kind of "non-design". Pd patches, being multi-platform, use common denominators like Courier or Arial/Helvetica fonts, simple geometric objects build out of 1px, #000 lines, and "flat shaded" 2-color GUI objects. There's a lot of black and white in Pd land.
This isn't exactly a CI (Miller has stated once or more, that he would like to use a "Pd font" for Pd), but it's the way it is now and is, what people are used to in Pd.
We don't have much content yet and the skin is almost the default
yes, plonish ;) - boring after the year i know it (the default plone skin) ;)
And the standard navigation font is too small on Mozilla/Linux.
It would be nice to see a proposal in advance, so nobody feels bad with it, but until now nobody has done much graphics anyway.
cool - maybe i'll get joe geldart to make a cool logo - i'm not that talented in vector graphics.
Great.
This sounds very good. I tried to get the grips on skinning pd.org and seeing dtml once again made me stop rather immediatly, although I'm a bit comfortable with the CMF (if you search the CMF mailing list archives from waaaay back - ~5 years ago -, you might still find my name there ;)
dtml in plone? - you're joking right? ;) there are only ~6 dtml files -
Yes, those are what I was talking 'bout. ;)
javascripts and css files, which are not xml so you can forget me/tal (zpt) there.
Yeah, well, zpt doesn't look *that* much nicer that dtml, in my opinion. But my opinion is influenced by a slight aversion to Zope, that isn't really justified, but I was converted to Webware(.sf.net)
ciao
Frank Barknecht wrote:
Ah. I thought it was ci(1) ("ci - check in RCS revisions")... Well, Pd has a strong tradition of incorporating a kind of "non-design". Pd patches, being multi-platform, use common denominators like Courier or Arial/Helvetica fonts, simple geometric objects build out of 1px, #000 lines, and "flat shaded" 2-color GUI objects. There's a lot of black and white in Pd land.
okay i'll use that :)
This isn't exactly a CI (Miller has stated once or more, that he would like to use a "Pd font" for Pd), but it's the way it is now and is, what people are used to in Pd.
font, and/or a logo? maybe we can work something out :)
And the standard navigation font is too small on Mozilla/Linux.
yes, which is fixed in 2.0 - but you can change that by hand in the stylesheet properties - 65% -> 11px or 10px
Yes, those are what I was talking 'bout. ;)
well we don't use much dtml in these documents - the normal "dtml skin availability" is gone in 2.0
Yeah, well, zpt doesn't look *that* much nicer that dtml, in my opinion.
imo it's quite cool - for simple stuff - if you need to do something very complicated you should use python (please... - don't look at the navigation_tree_slot ... it's like they distilled hitler and stalin)
But my opinion is influenced by a slight aversion to Zope, that isn't really justified, but I was converted to Webware(.sf.net)
i just have heard about it - seems very "basic" in comparison to zope
ciao
fyi - i'll start around saturday next week - 2 reasons: i need a pause (i'm currently working about 18h per day) and we're going to clean up everything in the guy - because after 2.0 we can't do this anymore - this will take a lot of time - nothing is typo safe :)
and, before i'll start to code that stuff i'll post pngs how i think it could look
is there something like a commit contract (like zope.org or plone has)?
regards, michael
-
Frank Barknecht -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
Michael Zeltner