... by reading this: http://www.webmonkey.com/06/12/index3a.html
(found over at .microsound)
Ciao
Oh man that stuff always bugs the hell out of me...But they won't realize from Keyboard Magazine that every single delay in Abelton Live is a mutant Karplus-Strong algorithm waiting to be unleashed!
~Kyle
On 3/24/06, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
... by reading this: http://www.webmonkey.com/06/12/index3a.html
(found over at .microsound)
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
-- http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com (((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())()))) (())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((()))) ))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________ _____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______ ((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
On 3/24/06, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
... by reading this: http://www.webmonkey.com/06/12/index3a.html
Oh man that stuff always bugs the hell out of me...But they won't realize from Keyboard Magazine that every single delay in Abelton Live is a mutant Karplus-Strong algorithm waiting to be unleashed!
Man, you have to realise that it's not about Karplus. No-one cares about Karplus. It's all about how much you pay for your gear. That's how you get da chicks. This is what the above article is about.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
I think I'm missing something, I'm not quite sure what's wrong with this article--- but everyone here seems to love ripping into it.
Sure, the guy does a complete disservice to laptop music by giving people the impression that all you do is drop in other people's loops; but it seems that what he's being attacked for here is his software choice.
I use PD because it enables me to to do things that conventional commercial software packages don't. But that doesn't make "us" better than him. for many people, those commercial software packages are perfect for their needs --- in fact, that's what they're designed for. Neither does this make our music better than his music. This is like instrument designers critiquing players because the players don't make their own instruments. There are many people still making great music using out-of-the-box hardware, no computers.
And by the way, your OS choice will never get you chicks, only your "phat beats." :D
David
On 3/24/06, Kyle Klipowicz kyleklip@gmail.com wrote:
Oh man that stuff always bugs the hell out of me...But they won't realize from Keyboard Magazine that every single delay in Abelton Live is a mutant Karplus-Strong algorithm waiting to be unleashed!
~Kyle
On 3/24/06, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
... by reading this: http://www.webmonkey.com/06/12/index3a.html
(found over at .microsound)
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
-- http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com (((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())()))) (())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((()))) ))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________ _____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______ ((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
-- __ _ _ _ _ __ ___ _ _ __ _ ___ ____ _ __ __ __ _ __ __ To talk about it is to miss the point http://sintheta.org
Hallo, David McCallum hat gesagt: // David McCallum wrote:
I think I'm missing something, I'm not quite sure what's wrong with this article--- but everyone here seems to love ripping into it.
I had the feeling that the interview reduced laptop music to Ableton Live, Reason and Garageband, and composing to layering loops.
There's nothing wrong with these three programs per se, apart from them not being free software, but there's so much more to doing music on a laptop.
And then there are some highlights in this conversation which had me reach for my handkerchief like this one:
Q: Is there any difference between composing on a laptop and lugging around turntables and records?
A: It's essentially the same principal.
And I didn't even recognize the spelling mistake until just now.
But that doesn't make "us" better than him. for many people, those commercial software packages are perfect for their needs --- in fact, that's what they're designed for. Neither does this make our music better than his music. This is like instrument designers critiquing players because the players don't make their own instruments. There are many people still making great music using out-of-the-box hardware, no computers.
Yeah, like this: http://www.createdigitalmusic.com/images/stories/instant_music.jpg ;-)
Ciao
I was actually defending the use of Abelton Live, since if you know what you are doing, it can be a very powerful FM (with the Operator add-on) and granular synthesizer. Plus, if you know how to take a reciprocal, every delay can be an awesome resonator if you take the time to calculate the pitches and convert them to ms. The thing is, you have to know what these techniques are from a fundamental level to do anything noteworthy. (But that's OK, it thins the competition ;-D)
I agree that it is not WHAT software you use, but what you DO with it. I've seen lots of good programmers make pretty mediocre music, and lots of technological babies churn out some great tunes. Hell, some of my best microsound work was 3 years ago with vanilla Acid 3 and Soundforge--no plug-ins. And I won't even get STARTED on my Impulse Tracker days.
Everyone always disses on Live on this list, but it has the most intuitive interface, optimized algorithms, and versatility that I've seen in a commercial OR open source package. It should be acknowledged as a feat of performance interface design (even if it rips off Star Trek, The Next Generation). Plus, Robert Henke and Gerhard Behles have produced some excellent music (often using Max/MSP).
I'd love to see Pd eventually be able to compete with Live on the levels of sophistication, usability, intuitive interface, documentation, DAW operations, etc. But if everyone sits around and spits spite, then these features seem more like threats than goals to the Pd community.
Sure commercial software costs money and is hegemonic and capitalistic, but let's face it: people getting paid are WAY more organized. Just compare http://cycling74.com to http://puredata.org. This is not meant to offend the generous people who created and maintain the site, but the $$ is an obvious benefit to any software initiative.
~Kyle
On 3/25/06, David McCallum d@mentalfloss.ca wrote:
I think I'm missing something, I'm not quite sure what's wrong with this article--- but everyone here seems to love ripping into it.
Sure, the guy does a complete disservice to laptop music by giving people the impression that all you do is drop in other people's loops; but it seems that what he's being attacked for here is his software choice.
-- http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com (((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())()))) (())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((()))) ))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________ _____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______ ((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO
Hallo, Kyle Klipowicz hat gesagt: // Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
I agree that it is not WHAT software you use, but what you DO with it. I've seen lots of good programmers make pretty mediocre music, and lots of technological babies churn out some great tunes. Hell, some of my best microsound work was 3 years ago with vanilla Acid 3 and Soundforge--no plug-ins. And I won't even get STARTED on my Impulse Tracker days.
Everyone always disses on Live on this list,
Is this so? I don't remember people dissing Live as a software. To me it rather seems consensus, that:
it has the most intuitive interface, optimized algorithms, and versatility that I've seen in a commercial OR open source package.
yes, exactly.
However what is dissed sometimes, maybe too often, is the kind of music that people create using Live, if they don't get creative with it like for example you do.
This is a hairy subject of course: For one, Live makes creating some kinds of music very easy. This is a very democratic thing that should be applauded IMO. In Pd OTOH creating the kind of music, that Live is good at, is quite hard. Though it is not impossible, just listen to some tracks on pdradio.iem.at.
The advantage of Pd of course is, that it excels at various other kinds of music, that are simply impossible at all to do in Live. That's why Robert Henke also has Max running when performing live with Live. Viewed that way, Live could be considered a very specific, highly polished and hand-optimized Max patch converted to a standalone application. However it totally lacks the thing, that makes Pd (or Max) interesting to me: the ability to look into the patch and hack it to do soemthing different.
Ciao