hi.
i hope this is the right "cypod" i am directing this email to. the correct one, would be the person who subscribed "pd-list" to "blogger.com". in any case i also send this mail to pd-ot@.
there seems to be another problem with the subscription of pd-list to blogger.com: the pd-list currently sends emails to blogger.com in "digest mode", which they don't like (any more?).
since i am tired of receiving an error mail for each and every post that get's out of pd-list, i bring this up here.
a) who is going to fix this problem now? (obivously it would be simple for me, but then it is not really my business)
b) who is responsible for future problems? this is the 2nd time that i get bounces from blogger.com because they do not like the way pd-list sends emails. i would like to know for sure who subscribed pd-list@ to this service. i would also like to find a way to ensure that the person who subscribed pd-list@ is responsible for this subscription. this is: error messages should go to them, directly, without bothering me.
personally i think, that it would be better to not subscribe pd-list@ directly to blogger.com but rather use automatic forwarding from a real persons account. so when blogger.com bounces, the person should get the notification and do something about it. (i haven't tested this setup, so it might not work at all)
nmfga.dr IOhannes
Am Montag, 22. Januar 2007 10:20 schrieb IOhannes m zmoelnig:
hi.
i hope this is the right "cypod" i am directing this email to. the correct one, would be the person who subscribed "pd-list" to "blogger.com". in any case i also send this mail to pd-ot@.
[...snip...]
wow ... so, instead of only having the list-archive where spammers can collect e-mail adresses, there are also dumb fools who think it is a good idea to subscribe a blog to this list, making it even easier for spammers to harvest addresses? thats just crazy, really....
besides that, doing so shows disrespect to the people on the list, since it means that their postings get automatically published elsewhere, without permission. maybe there are people who dont want their posts to be spread any further than to the lists.
isnt it enough to post a link to the list(archives) instead of copying it in full, if someone really wants access through his/her pages to this list(s)?
i find that really disturbing. at least there could have been a request mail to the list to ask the people if they are ok with that.
nmfga.dr IOhannes
greets,
chris
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
On Jan 22, 2007, at 4:33 AM, Christian Klippel wrote:
Am Montag, 22. Januar 2007 10:20 schrieb IOhannes m zmoelnig:
hi.
i hope this is the right "cypod" i am directing this email to. the correct one, would be the person who subscribed "pd-list" to "blogger.com". in any case i also send this mail to pd-ot@.
[...snip...]
wow ... so, instead of only having the list-archive where spammers can collect e-mail adresses, there are also dumb fools who think it is a good idea to subscribe a blog to this list, making it even easier for spammers to harvest addresses? thats just crazy, really....
besides that, doing so shows disrespect to the people on the list, since it means that their postings get automatically published elsewhere, without permission. maybe there are people who dont want their posts to be spread any further than to the lists.
isnt it enough to post a link to the list(archives) instead of copying it in full, if someone really wants access through his/her pages to this list(s)?
i find that really disturbing. at least there could have been a request mail to the list to ask the people if they are ok with that.
It would be nice if that person had notified the list about this (perhaps they did, I didn't check the archives). This is a public list, and its already archived in other places like gmane, so I don't think we can expect people to get permission from every person who ever posted on the list in order to reuse the list contents.
I think it's more effective to make sure people realize that posting to lists like this means they are giving the contents of those emails to the public domain. If you don't want the info public, then don't post it to public lists.
That said, I think IOhannes is correct about the way to go about doing the blogger reposting.
.hc
nmfga.dr IOhannes
greets,
chris
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
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Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra
Am Montag, 22. Januar 2007 18:24 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner:
It would be nice if that person had notified the list about this (perhaps they did, I didn't check the archives). This is a public list, and its already archived in other places like gmane, so I don't think we can expect people to get permission from every person who ever posted on the list in order to reuse the list contents.
ah, so this list is spread to even more public places? dont these people have their own ideas/content to fill their pages with? seems so ...
I think it's more effective to make sure people realize that posting to lists like this means they are giving the contents of those emails to the public domain.
great! would you say the same if it would be about a drug related list? since it is public accessible, no problem to forward it elsewhere completely? maybe to the employers of the people posting there? if not, why? it would be public list as well, so whats the difference? sorry, but your argument is a bit weak. using the same logic, one could say "wiretapping is ok, since we dont have anything to hide".
again, i find it disturbing that the list is "forwarded" to other places in whole, without even notifying the people about it and to ask the list if the majority of the people on the list are ok with that. it doesnt matter what the topic of the list is, it has to do with respect to the people here.
If you don't want the info public, then don't post it to public lists.
good idea. i will follow that and unsubscribe now, because i'm not happy with that by principle.
That said, I think IOhannes is correct about the way to go about doing the blogger reposting.
.hc
nmfga.dr IOhannes
greets,
chris
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra
On Jan 22, 2007, at 8:02 PM, Christian Klippel wrote:
Am Montag, 22. Januar 2007 18:24 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner:
It would be nice if that person had notified the list about this (perhaps they did, I didn't check the archives). This is a public list, and its already archived in other places like gmane, so I don't think we can expect people to get permission from every person who ever posted on the list in order to reuse the list contents.
ah, so this list is spread to even more public places? dont these people have their own ideas/content to fill their pages with? seems so ...
I think it's more effective to make sure people realize that posting to lists like this means they are giving the contents of those emails to the public domain.
great! would you say the same if it would be about a drug related list? since it is public accessible, no problem to forward it elsewhere completely? maybe to the employers of the people posting there? if not, why? it would be public list as well, so whats the difference? sorry, but your argument is a bit weak. using the same logic, one could say "wiretapping is ok, since we dont have anything to hide".
again, i find it disturbing that the list is "forwarded" to other places in whole, without even notifying the people about it and to ask the list if the majority of the people on the list are ok with that. it doesnt matter what the topic of the list is, it has to do with respect to the people here.
I don't mean to be annoying or anything, but I don't understand the problem here. What harm is done if a public list like this is archived in other formats? Anyone can subscribe, the archives are freely searchable and downloadable on the iem.at site. I am having a hard time seeing any violation of privacy if someone mirrors the public archive.
.hc
If you don't want the info public, then don't post it to public lists.
good idea. i will follow that and unsubscribe now, because i'm not happy with that by principle.
That said, I think IOhannes is correct about the way to go about doing the blogger reposting.
.hc
nmfga.dr IOhannes
greets,
chris
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
I agree with this. What's so bad about it? I'm not a big fan of the archive search features and interface either. I haven't been able to figure out a nice way to view whole threads on a single page, which is why I'm thankful that I've been gathering my own archive via gmail for the past 2 years.
We should always encourage others to create more enriched ways of sorting the 'list data' (not the kind that Frank likes to talk about).
If you have something private to say and don't want it recorded forever on the internet, then post your responses to individuals only. But most of you are keen to discourage private responses, because you know that it's better for the community to have that information stored for future reference.
~Kyle
On 1/23/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org wrote:
On Jan 22, 2007, at 8:02 PM, Christian Klippel wrote:
Am Montag, 22. Januar 2007 18:24 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner:
It would be nice if that person had notified the list about this (perhaps they did, I didn't check the archives). This is a public list, and its already archived in other places like gmane, so I don't think we can expect people to get permission from every person who ever posted on the list in order to reuse the list contents.
ah, so this list is spread to even more public places? dont these people have their own ideas/content to fill their pages with? seems so ...
I think it's more effective to make sure people realize that posting to lists like this means they are giving the contents of those emails to the public domain.
great! would you say the same if it would be about a drug related list? since it is public accessible, no problem to forward it elsewhere completely? maybe to the employers of the people posting there? if not, why? it would be public list as well, so whats the difference? sorry, but your argument is a bit weak. using the same logic, one could say "wiretapping is ok, since we dont have anything to hide".
again, i find it disturbing that the list is "forwarded" to other places in whole, without even notifying the people about it and to ask the list if the majority of the people on the list are ok with that. it doesnt matter what the topic of the list is, it has to do with respect to the people here.
I don't mean to be annoying or anything, but I don't understand the problem here. What harm is done if a public list like this is archived in other formats? Anyone can subscribe, the archives are freely searchable and downloadable on the iem.at site. I am having a hard time seeing any violation of privacy if someone mirrors the public archive.
.hc
If you don't want the info public, then don't post it to public lists.
good idea. i will follow that and unsubscribe now, because i'm not happy with that by principle.
That said, I think IOhannes is correct about the way to go about doing the blogger reposting.
.hc
nmfga.dr IOhannes
greets,
chris
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I don't mean to be annoying or anything, but I don't understand the problem here. What harm is done if a public list like this is archived in other formats? Anyone can subscribe, the archives are freely searchable and downloadable on the iem.at site. I am having a hard time seeing any violation of privacy if someone mirrors the public archive.
I think, posting pd-list mails to a blog site is something different from the official (iem) and semi-official (elists.com, gmane) archives.
Did you take a look at the respective blogger site? http://pdlist.blogspot.com/ Did you read the comments? It's pure blogspam, which is riding piggyback on content generated by the pd community. This definitely is not a context I would want my texts to appear, so I'm glad IOhannes brough this up again and finally suspended what I consider exploitation of the pd-list.
Plus: blogger.com is not even taking the small anti-spam measurements gmane uses: You can find verbatim email addresses in the blog entries, whereas gmane at least semi-hides it with <at>.
Ciao
You are correct, I didn't take time to even look at the site, but thought it was similar to some other mailing list aggregators I've seen. It has no benefit whatsoever.
Sorry for not examining more closely before responding!
~Kyle
On 1/24/07, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I don't mean to be annoying or anything, but I don't understand the problem here. What harm is done if a public list like this is archived in other formats? Anyone can subscribe, the archives are freely searchable and downloadable on the iem.at site. I am having a hard time seeing any violation of privacy if someone mirrors the public archive.
I think, posting pd-list mails to a blog site is something different from the official (iem) and semi-official (elists.com, gmane) archives.
Did you take a look at the respective blogger site? http://pdlist.blogspot.com/ Did you read the comments? It's pure blogspam, which is riding piggyback on content generated by the pd community. This definitely is not a context I would want my texts to appear, so I'm glad IOhannes brough this up again and finally suspended what I consider exploitation of the pd-list.
Plus: blogger.com is not even taking the small anti-spam measurements gmane uses: You can find verbatim email addresses in the blog entries, whereas gmane at least semi-hides it with <at>.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
blogging is like ever thinking you're the center of the world ....
spam all blogs with your worst carp, that's gooooodddd
saludos, sevy
Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
You are correct, I didn't take time to even look at the site, but thought it was similar to some other mailing list aggregators I've seen. It has no benefit whatsoever.
Sorry for not examining more closely before responding!
~Kyle
On 1/24/07, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I don't mean to be annoying or anything, but I don't understand the problem here. What harm is done if a public list like this is archived in other formats? Anyone can subscribe, the archives are freely searchable and downloadable on the iem.at site. I am having a hard time seeing any violation of privacy if someone mirrors the public archive.
I think, posting pd-list mails to a blog site is something different from the official (iem) and semi-official (elists.com, gmane) archives.
Did you take a look at the respective blogger site? http://pdlist.blogspot.com/ Did you read the comments? It's pure blogspam, which is riding piggyback on content generated by the pd community. This definitely is not a context I would want my texts to appear, so I'm glad IOhannes brough this up again and finally suspended what I consider exploitation of the pd-list.
Plus: blogger.com is not even taking the small anti-spam measurements gmane uses: You can find verbatim email addresses in the blog entries, whereas gmane at least semi-hides it with <at>.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
On Jan 24, 2007, at 3:44 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I don't mean to be annoying or anything, but I don't understand the problem here. What harm is done if a public list like this is archived in other formats? Anyone can subscribe, the archives are freely searchable and downloadable on the iem.at site. I am having a hard time seeing any violation of privacy if someone mirrors the public archive.
I think, posting pd-list mails to a blog site is something different from the official (iem) and semi-official (elists.com, gmane) archives.
Did you take a look at the respective blogger site? http://pdlist.blogspot.com/ Did you read the comments? It's pure blogspam, which is riding piggyback on content generated by the pd community. This definitely is not a context I would want my texts to appear, so I'm glad IOhannes brough this up again and finally suspended what I consider exploitation of the pd-list.
Plus: blogger.com is not even taking the small anti-spam measurements gmane uses: You can find verbatim email addresses in the blog entries, whereas gmane at least semi-hides it with <at>.
Yeah, I agree with that, but I made my point since it seemed that people were talking about more broad ranging restrictions.
Personally, I've given up on trying to prevent spammers from getting my email address, it's been on websites since '97. Luckily, Bayesian filters work quite well. I get 150 spams a day, but I see like 5 or so.
.hc
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
PD-ot mailing list PD-ot@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-ot
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