Hey,
IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
Steffen wrote:
Apropos, it would be very nice if the http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-* pages explicit stated what the
policy on this subject is.
ah yes, the current link to the pd-* netiquette is http://puredata.info/community/lists/netiquette
i'll have to update the sites at lists.puredata.info
thanks for the reminder.
Im glad to be of any help.
The netiquette page says, among other things, that: "Mail from an email address which is not subscribed to the list won't get through to any of these lists." But, as i've learned, that does not count for the pd-annouce list. So, i suggest, either change the netiquette page or the procedure of the pd-annouce list to match the netiquette page.
This might be the reason why i woundered why the annouce list was open for all (minus the modaration bit). I can see that some announcements - that are not either strictly Pd related or send/fwd'ed by a person subscribed to the list - can be usefull for the pd community, and therefore will be nice to let through from non-subscribers.
But -- I still think it will be "nice" if it was a member-only announcment list. A few reasons why: * It will ease modaration of the list as it will be (allmost [1]) not needed. * Not-strict Pd announcments will only be sendt to the list if a member of the list/community consirder it usefull, and therefor sends it. That means it is only up to the community/list to decide. I'm aware that can feel kind of harch, but on the other hand i quite sure that interesting announcements for the "outside" allways will be discovered, and then potentianlly sendt to the list. * Announcements from Pd useres/devs/etc will not be affected as the sender of this would be subscribers to the list - i assume.
Finally i'd like to state that it would be nice if announcments was sendt to the announce list only. I see no reason to cross post. And i see no reason to post announcements to the pd-list, since there is an announcment. I suggest this to be added to the netiquette.
That's it for now. I know that this i not ground-solid arguments, and that they are based on quite a few loose asumtions. But i hope you (folks) will atleast consider the points. I allso hope you can read through my spell errors.
best, steffen
[1] Only case being that descripet in the netiquette page, saying: "All mail from email addresses which are not subscribed to the list will be held for approval by a human being. Mail which is considered spam will be discarded (they will silently vanish). Mail that appears to come from someone interested in PD _will be rejected_ and the author will get a rejection email."
Hallo, Steffen hat gesagt: // Steffen wrote:
Finally i'd like to state that it would be nice if announcments was sendt to the announce list only. I see no reason to cross post. And i see no reason to post announcements to the pd-list, since there is an announcment. I suggest this to be added to the netiquette.
To me pd-announce is a subset of pd-list for those people who don't want to follow every discussion and flame war, but don't want to miss important announcements either.
pd-list has manymany more subscribers than pd-announce, so I guess, many pd-list subscribers either don't want to read pd-related announcements - I doubt this - or many pd-list subscribers just don't know about pd-announce or didn't bother to subscribe. All these people would miss pd-announcements on pd-announce, unless they are crossposted to pd-list. That's the reason why I cross-post to both lists. I'd like to continue to be allowed to cross-post, because it is unlikely that we will get several hundreds of pd-list subscribers not yet subscribed to pd-announce to change their subscription habits.
Regarding posts from non-subscribers: I'd vote for keeping pd-announce open to them.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Steffen hat gesagt: // Steffen wrote:
Finally i'd like to state that it would be nice if announcments was sendt to the announce list only. I see no reason to cross post. And i see no reason to post announcements to the pd-list, since there is an announcment. I suggest this to be added to the netiquette.
personally i agree.
To me pd-announce is a subset of pd-list for those people who don't want to follow every discussion and flame war, but don't want to miss important announcements either.
i agree too.
pd-list has manymany more subscribers than pd-announce, so I guess, many pd-list subscribers either don't want to read pd-related announcements - I doubt this - or many pd-list subscribers just don't know about pd-announce or didn't bother to subscribe. All these people would miss pd-announcements on pd-announce, unless they are crossposted to pd-list. That's the reason why I cross-post to both lists. I'd like to continue to be allowed to cross-post, because it is unlikely that we will get several hundreds of pd-list subscribers not yet subscribed to pd-announce to change their subscription habits.
a simple solution would be to add the entire pd-list to the pd-announce subscribers and set all subscribees (is that the word?) of pd-announce who are also subscribed to pd-list to "no-mail" so they don't get cross-postings.
what do you think?
Regarding posts from non-subscribers: I'd vote for keeping pd-announce open to them.
as stated previously, i am also tending towards such a solution.
however, i still like to enforce regular posters to pd-announce to be subscribed: it is rather tiresome if i have to manually approve dozens of posts from e.g. hsteiner@poly.edu (sorry hans, this is just an example :-)) just because addresses who are legitimate but obviously one-time posters are let through.
mf.asdr. IOhannes
On Mon, April 10, 2006 2:12 pm, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
Frank Barknecht wrote:
To me pd-announce is a subset of pd-list for those people who don't want to follow every discussion and flame war, but don't want to miss important announcements either.
I'd really like it to be such a subset. If it was such a subset. But facts are that it isn't (- and that is why i surgested to make it so, that the intersection between the to lists would be empty).
If it really was a subset it would become redudant to be subscirbed to both the pd-list and the pd-annouce list. So if one were subscribed to the pd-list one would not need allso to be subscribed to the pd-annouce list. Now it isn't redudant since there are (or potentionally are) mails sendt to the pd-announce list there are not crossposted to the pd-list list.
pd-list has manymany more subscribers than pd-announce, so I guess, many pd-list subscribers either don't want to read pd-related announcements - I doubt this - or many pd-list subscribers just don't know about pd-announce or didn't bother to subscribe. All these people would miss pd-announcements on pd-announce, unless they are crossposted to pd-list. That's the reason why I cross-post to both lists. I'd like to continue to be allowed to cross-post, because it is unlikely that we will get several hundreds of pd-list subscribers not yet subscribed to pd-announce to change their subscription habits.
a simple solution would be to add the entire pd-list to the pd-announce subscribers and set all subscribees (is that the word?) of pd-announce who are also subscribed to pd-list to "no-mail" so they don't get cross-postings.
Or an easy fix to the above subset-problem could be to add pd-list to the pd-announce list.
Announcements will the need only to be sendt to the pd-announce list, which per auto will send it to the pd-list list. Subscribers of the pd-announce list would get there announcments, and so would subscribers of the pd-list list.
Since the redudance problem would be solved, the set of members of the two lists would then have an empty intersection. In other words: it will satisfies Franks wish from the first quote.
However, there will be two minor issues. First, there might be members of the pd-list who potentinally could argue that they don't like to get unwanthed announcement mails, since they only subscribed to the pd-list list and not allso the pd-announce list. But, as Frank said, that is highly unlikely.
Seceondly...
Regarding posts from non-subscribers: I'd vote for keeping pd-announce open to them.
as stated previously, i am also tending towards such a solution.
... It will allow non-subscribers to indirectly post to the pd-list list. I'm not sure if that will be a real problem, as the pd-announce list (from where the mail from non-scribers comes) are being moderated by a community member.
all the best, steffen
Steffen wrote:
On Mon, April 10, 2006 2:12 pm, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
a simple solution would be to add the entire pd-list to the pd-announce subscribers and set all subscribees (is that the word?) of pd-announce who are also subscribed to pd-list to "no-mail" so they don't get cross-postings.
Or an easy fix to the above subset-problem could be to add pd-list to the pd-announce list.
i consider "add pd-list to the pd-announce list" and "add the entire pd-list to the pd-announce subscribers".
so we are proposing the same here.
mfg.ads.r IOhannes
IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
Steffen wrote:
On Mon, April 10, 2006 2:12 pm, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
a simple solution would be to add the entire pd-list to the pd-announce subscribers and set all subscribees (is that the word?) of pd-announce who are also subscribed to pd-list to "no-mail" so they don't get cross-postings.
Or an easy fix to the above subset-problem could be to add pd-list to the pd-announce list.
i consider "add pd-list to the pd-announce list" and "add the entire pd-list to the pd-announce subscribers".
this should read: i consider "add pd-list to the pd-announce list" and "add the entire pd-list to the pd-announce subscribers" the same.
mfg.asd.r IOhannes
so we are proposing the same here.
mfg.ads.r IOhannes
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