I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference.
I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need.
As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing.
From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime.
I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D
On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote:
From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at
H iSimon -
I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured this out first.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote:
hey list,
does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)?
the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect)
cheers. _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
hey dan,
unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-)
would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. but please post your setup.
thanks
On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference.
I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need.
As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing.
From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime.
I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D
On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote:
From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at
H iSimon -
I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured this out first.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote:
hey list,
does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)?
the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect)
cheers. _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
without jack i should add... On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hey dan,
unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-)
would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. but please post your setup.
thanks
On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference.
I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need.
As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing.
From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime.
I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D
On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote:
From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at
H iSimon -
I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured this out first.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote:
hey list,
does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)?
the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect)
cheers. _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Heres a trim of my notes:
Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already):
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...):
echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.conf
Also add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login:
# kill pulse audio if it was spawned
pulseaudio -k
I'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard:
pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5
Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev.
On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
without jack i should add... On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hey dan,
unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-)
would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. but please post your setup.
thanks
On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference.
I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need.
As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing.
From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime.
I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D
On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote:
From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at
H iSimon -
I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured this out first.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote:
hey list,
does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)?
the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect)
cheers. _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Hi Dan,
Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing.
All best,
Jamie
On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Heres a trim of my notes:
Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already):
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...):
echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.confAlso add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login:
# kill pulse audio if it was spawned pulseaudio -kI'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard:
pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5
Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev.
On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
without jack i should add... On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hey dan,
unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-)
would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. but please post your setup.
thanks
On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference.
I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need.
As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing.
From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime.
I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D
On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote:
From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at
H iSimon -
I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured this out first.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote:
hey list,
does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)?
the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect)
cheers. _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources.
On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote:
Hi Dan,
Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing.
All best,
Jamie
On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Heres a trim of my notes:
Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already):
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...):
echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.confAlso add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login:
# kill pulse audio if it was spawned pulseaudio -kI'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard:
pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5
Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev.
On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
without jack i should add... On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hey dan,
unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-)
would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. but please post your setup.
thanks
On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference.
I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need.
As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing.
From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime.
I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D
On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote:
From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at
H iSimon -
I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured this out first.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote: > hey list, > > does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. > i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. > are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? > is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)? > > the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect) > > cheers. > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/
Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon)
On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources.
On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote:
Hi Dan,
Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing.
All best,
Jamie
On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Heres a trim of my notes:
Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already):
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...):
echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.confAlso add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login:
# kill pulse audio if it was spawned pulseaudio -kI'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard:
pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5
Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev.
On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
without jack i should add... On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hey dan,
unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-)
would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. but please post your setup.
thanks
On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference.
I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need.
As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing.
From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime.
I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D
On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote:
> From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu > Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues > Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT > To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com > Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at > > > H iSimon - > > I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces > around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should > be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured > this out first. > > cheers > Miller > > On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote: >> hey list, >> >> does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. >> i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. >> are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? >> is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)? >> >> the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect) >> >> cheers. >> _______________________________________________ >> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =)
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/
Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon)
On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources.
On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote:
Hi Dan,
Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing.
All best,
Jamie
On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Heres a trim of my notes:
Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already):
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways... ):
echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.confAlso add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login:
# kill pulse audio if it was spawned pulseaudio -kI'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard:
pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5
Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev.
On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
without jack i should add... On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hey dan,
unfortunately i'm in switzerland :-)
would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. but please post your setup.
thanks
On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference.
I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need.
As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing.
From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime.
I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D
On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote:
*From: *Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu *Subject: **Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues* *Date: *March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT *To: *Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com *Cc: *PD list pd-list@iem.at
H iSimon -
I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured this out first.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote:
hey list,
does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)?
the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect)
cheers. _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P
On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote:
Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =)
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/
Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon)
On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources.
On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote:
Hi Dan,
Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing.
All best,
Jamie
On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Heres a trim of my notes:
Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already):
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...):
echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.confAlso add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login:
# kill pulse audio if it was spawned pulseaudio -kI'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard:
pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5
Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev.
On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
without jack i should add... On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hey dan,
unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-)
would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. but please post your setup.
thanks
On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
> I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference. > > I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need. > > As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing. > > From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime. > > I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D > > On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote: > >> From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu >> Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues >> Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT >> To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com >> Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at >> >> >> H iSimon - >> >> I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces >> around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should >> be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured >> this out first. >> >> cheers >> Miller >> >> On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote: >>> hey list, >>> >>> does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. >>> i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. >>> are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? >>> is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)? >>> >>> the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect) >>> >>> cheers. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > -------- > Dan Wilcox > @danomatika > danomatika.com > robotcowboy.com > > > > >
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- Richie
www.glitchpop.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
hi dan,
tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there…
your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway?
thanks again
simon
On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P
On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote:
Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =)
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/
Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon)
On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources.
On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote:
Hi Dan,
Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing.
All best,
Jamie
On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Heres a trim of my notes:
Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already):
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...):
echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.confAlso add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login:
# kill pulse audio if it was spawned pulseaudio -kI'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard:
pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5
Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev.
On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
without jack i should add... On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
> hey dan, > > unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-) > > would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. > but please post your setup. > > thanks > > On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: > >> I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference. >> >> I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need. >> >> As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing. >> >> From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime. >> >> I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D >> >> On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote: >> >>> From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu >>> Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues >>> Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT >>> To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com >>> Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at >>> >>> >>> H iSimon - >>> >>> I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces >>> around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should >>> be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured >>> this out first. >>> >>> cheers >>> Miller >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote: >>>> hey list, >>>> >>>> does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. >>>> i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. >>>> are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? >>>> is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)? >>>> >>>> the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect) >>>> >>>> cheers. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> -------- >> Dan Wilcox >> @danomatika >> danomatika.com >> robotcowboy.com >> >> >> >> >> >
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- Richie
www.glitchpop.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar -> effects -> amp latencies are already closer to 20ms.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises.
On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hi dan,
tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there…
your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway?
thanks again
simon
On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P
On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote:
Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =)
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/
Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon)
On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources.
On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote:
Hi Dan,
Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing.
All best,
Jamie
On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Heres a trim of my notes:
Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already):
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...):
echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.confAlso add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login:
# kill pulse audio if it was spawned pulseaudio -kI'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard:
pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5
Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev.
On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
> without jack i should add... > On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: > >> hey dan, >> >> unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-) >> >> would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. >> but please post your setup. >> >> thanks >> >> On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference. >>> >>> I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need. >>> >>> As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing. >>> >>> From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime. >>> >>> I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D >>> >>> On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote: >>> >>>> From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu >>>> Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues >>>> Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT >>>> To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com >>>> Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at >>>> >>>> >>>> H iSimon - >>>> >>>> I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces >>>> around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should >>>> be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured >>>> this out first. >>>> >>>> cheers >>>> Miller >>>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote: >>>>> hey list, >>>>> >>>>> does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. >>>>> i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. >>>>> are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? >>>>> is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)? >>>>> >>>>> the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect) >>>>> >>>>> cheers. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>> >>> -------- >>> Dan Wilcox >>> @danomatika >>> danomatika.com >>> robotcowboy.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- Richie
www.glitchpop.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal.
no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-)
On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar -> effects -> amp latencies are already closer to 20ms.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises.
On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hi dan,
tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there…
your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway?
thanks again
simon
On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P
On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote:
Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =)
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/
Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon)
On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources.
On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote:
Hi Dan,
Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing.
All best,
Jamie
On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
> Heres a trim of my notes: > > Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already): > > sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' > sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' > sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' > > I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...): > > echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.conf > > Also add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login: > > # kill pulse audio if it was spawned > pulseaudio -k > > I'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard: > > pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5 > > Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev. > > On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: > >> without jack i should add... >> On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> hey dan, >>> >>> unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-) >>> >>> would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. >>> but please post your setup. >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference. >>>> >>>> I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need. >>>> >>>> As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing. >>>> >>>> From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime. >>>> >>>> I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D >>>> >>>> On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu >>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues >>>>> Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT >>>>> To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com >>>>> Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> H iSimon - >>>>> >>>>> I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces >>>>> around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should >>>>> be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured >>>>> this out first. >>>>> >>>>> cheers >>>>> Miller >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote: >>>>>> hey list, >>>>>> >>>>>> does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. >>>>>> i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. >>>>>> are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? >>>>>> is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)? >>>>>> >>>>>> the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect) >>>>>> >>>>>> cheers. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> Dan Wilcox >>>> @danomatika >>>> danomatika.com >>>> robotcowboy.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > -------- > Dan Wilcox > @danomatika > danomatika.com > robotcowboy.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
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I guess I don't get that since I've been playing that relative latency for years. How is 10-15 ms not "real time"? It's not even really perceivable unless you're doing lots of high rate short attack & decay stuff. At least as far as I can tell. I must be slow. :D
Then again, I might be wrong. I'll probably try the hard float Debian UDOO image next. That might give us some room.
Also, I know my notes would not be easy to follow for a beginner ... I only wrote them for myself and haven't edited them.
enohp ym morf tnes
Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal.
no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-)
On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar -> effects -> amp latencies are already closer to 20ms.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises.
On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hi dan,
tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there…
your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway?
thanks again
simon
On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P
On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote:
Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =)
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/
Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon)
On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
> I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources. > > On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote: > >> >> Hi Dan, >> >> Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing. >> >> All best, >> >> Jamie >> >> >> On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> Heres a trim of my notes: >>> >>> Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already): >>> >>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>> >>> I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...): >>> >>> echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.conf >>> >>> Also add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login: >>> >>> # kill pulse audio if it was spawned >>> pulseaudio -k >>> >>> I'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard: >>> >>> pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5 >>> >>> Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev. >>> >>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> without jack i should add... >>>> On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> hey dan, >>>>> >>>>> unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-) >>>>> >>>>> would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. >>>>> but please post your setup. >>>>> >>>>> thanks >>>>> >>>>> On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference. >>>>>> >>>>>> I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need. >>>>>> >>>>>> As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing. >>>>>> >>>>>> From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime. >>>>>> >>>>>> I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues >>>>>>> Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT >>>>>>> To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com >>>>>>> Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> H iSimon - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces >>>>>>> around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should >>>>>>> be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured >>>>>>> this out first. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>> Miller >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote: >>>>>>>> hey list, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. >>>>>>>> i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. >>>>>>>> are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? >>>>>>>> is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> cheers. >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- >>>>>> Dan Wilcox >>>>>> @danomatika >>>>>> danomatika.com >>>>>> robotcowboy.com >>> >>> -------- >>> Dan Wilcox >>> @danomatika >>> danomatika.com >>> robotcowboy.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > -------- > Dan Wilcox > @danomatika > danomatika.com > robotcowboy.com
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On 15/03/14 23:03, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I guess I don't get that since I've been playing that relative latency for years. How is 10-15 ms not "real time"? It's not even really perceivable unless you're doing lots of high rate short attack& decay stuff. At least as far as I can tell. I must be slow. :D
Then again, I might be wrong. I'll probably try the hard float Debian UDOO image next. That might give us some room.
Musicians in orchestras have been playing with, dealing with, much longer latencies for centuries. An orchestra cannot all be within a metre or so of each other, they are 10s of metres apart, and that is on top of the different set of differences in distance to the audience. In a pit in an opera or ballet it gets much worse. Any modern PA adds substantial latencies to achieve a good sound in the audience, and mostly use mics and foldback in other kinds of performances, and make the musicians life easier by avoiding the natural latency issues of an acoustic performance.
Organ players have dealt with huge latencies for as long as there have been big pipe organs. Percussionists using real instruments don't get the attack from their instruments till well after they initiate the note by starting to move their stick toward the cymbal.
Wood and metal instruments all have considerable latencies, some much more than others, it is all part of playing that particular instrument. Electric guitar players rely on the latency between amp and pickup (this time only a few milliseconds) for their sound.
Any digital instrument also has latencies. Basically it is a matter of playing the instrument you are using.
Simon
well, i play a lot in an orchestra. (doublebass) and i can assure you it’s a problem you don’t get used to. (and that is not just me) sure you can adapt to the situation but it is not ideal. let a pipe organ player play with a conductor and orchestra and the fun begins :-) it works but it needs a lot of practice and constant "forward-conducting” from the conductor. i also play a lot with an orchestra that focuses on film-music. basically the movie is going on a screen and we play the filmmusic live to it. the conductor (ludwig wicki) has a small screen with the movie and a click on his notestand, and it’s his job to get the orchestra in sync with the movie. he always has to conduct way before the click to even get close to the right spot. so you could say the latency is even worse for the conductor! also i yet have to find an orchestra that plays highly rhythmically fast stuff in sync :-) it’s just a different way of making music. my education is that of a jazz-bassplayer and i had to get into the orchestra “groove” (or the lack of it), before i could understand why they play so non-precise rhythms :-) but it is the only way to stay in sync with each-other and the orchestra.
try a symphonic orchestra with a rock-drummer :-) he will get crazy.
and to the latencies inherent in wooden instruments:
on the doublebass (which many consider as the wooden instrument with the largest latency) the situation is complex. as a player you feel the strings and you have immediate response when you bow or pluck them. so there is no latency for your body. the tone that you hear as a player by the instrument is also there very fast (mostly the attack) but the tone that people here in the audience comes in much later (mostly not the attack) and depends on frequency and volume and if the bass is plucked or bowed.
it’s a “problem” with digital instruments or effects when the body experience is non existant and you have to rely solely on your ears. imho this makes a huge difference.
cheers
simon
so i think we should try to make latencies as small as possible, since it helps a lot :-) On 16 Mar 2014, at 02:36, Simon Wise simonzwise@gmail.com wrote:
On 15/03/14 23:03, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I guess I don't get that since I've been playing that relative latency for years. How is 10-15 ms not "real time"? It's not even really perceivable unless you're doing lots of high rate short attack& decay stuff. At least as far as I can tell. I must be slow. :D
Then again, I might be wrong. I'll probably try the hard float Debian UDOO image next. That might give us some room.
Musicians in orchestras have been playing with, dealing with, much longer latencies for centuries. An orchestra cannot all be within a metre or so of each other, they are 10s of metres apart, and that is on top of the different set of differences in distance to the audience. In a pit in an opera or ballet it gets much worse. Any modern PA adds substantial latencies to achieve a good sound in the audience, and mostly use mics and foldback in other kinds of performances, and make the musicians life easier by avoiding the natural latency issues of an acoustic performance.
Organ players have dealt with huge latencies for as long as there have been big pipe organs. Percussionists using real instruments don't get the attack from their instruments till well after they initiate the note by starting to move their stick toward the cymbal.
Wood and metal instruments all have considerable latencies, some much more than others, it is all part of playing that particular instrument. Electric guitar players rely on the latency between amp and pickup (this time only a few milliseconds) for their sound.
Any digital instrument also has latencies. Basically it is a matter of playing the instrument you are using.
Simon
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Also, for an electric guitar player, the difference between the latency you get with an analog amp (not perceivable) and a computer with more than 10(?)ms latency, is very big. Maybe around 10ms would be "ideal", but haven't reached that (yet?), but would really love to.
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
well, i play a lot in an orchestra. (doublebass) and i can assure you it's a problem you don't get used to. (and that is not just me) sure you can adapt to the situation but it is not ideal. let a pipe organ player play with a conductor and orchestra and the fun begins :-) it works but it needs a lot of practice and constant "forward-conducting" from the conductor. i also play a lot with an orchestra that focuses on film-music. basically the movie is going on a screen and we play the filmmusic live to it. the conductor (ludwig wicki) has a small screen with the movie and a click on his notestand, and it's his job to get the orchestra in sync with the movie. he always has to conduct way before the click to even get close to the right spot. so you could say the latency is even worse for the conductor! also i yet have to find an orchestra that plays highly rhythmically fast stuff in sync :-) it's just a different way of making music. my education is that of a jazz-bassplayer and i had to get into the orchestra "groove" (or the lack of it), before i could understand why they play so non-precise rhythms :-) but it is the only way to stay in sync with each-other and the orchestra.
try a symphonic orchestra with a rock-drummer :-) he will get crazy.
and to the latencies inherent in wooden instruments:
on the doublebass (which many consider as the wooden instrument with the largest latency) the situation is complex. as a player you feel the strings and you have immediate response when you bow or pluck them. so there is no latency for your body. the tone that you hear as a player by the instrument is also there very fast (mostly the attack) but the tone that people here in the audience comes in much later (mostly not the attack) and depends on frequency and volume and if the bass is plucked or bowed.
it's a "problem" with digital instruments or effects when the body experience is non existant and you have to rely solely on your ears. imho this makes a huge difference.
cheers
simon
so i think we should try to make latencies as small as possible, since it helps a lot :-) On 16 Mar 2014, at 02:36, Simon Wise simonzwise@gmail.com wrote:
On 15/03/14 23:03, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I guess I don't get that since I've been playing that relative latency
for
years. How is 10-15 ms not "real time"? It's not even really perceivable unless you're doing lots of high rate short attack& decay stuff. At
least as
far as I can tell. I must be slow. :D
Then again, I might be wrong. I'll probably try the hard float Debian
UDOO
image next. That might give us some room.
Musicians in orchestras have been playing with, dealing with, much
longer latencies for centuries. An orchestra cannot all be within a metre or so of each other, they are 10s of metres apart, and that is on top of the different set of differences in distance to the audience. In a pit in an opera or ballet it gets much worse. Any modern PA adds substantial latencies to achieve a good sound in the audience, and mostly use mics and foldback in other kinds of performances, and make the musicians life easier by avoiding the natural latency issues of an acoustic performance.
Organ players have dealt with huge latencies for as long as there have
been big pipe organs. Percussionists using real instruments don't get the attack from their instruments till well after they initiate the note by starting to move their stick toward the cymbal.
Wood and metal instruments all have considerable latencies, some much
more than others, it is all part of playing that particular instrument. Electric guitar players rely on the latency between amp and pickup (this time only a few milliseconds) for their sound.
Any digital instrument also has latencies. Basically it is a matter of
playing the instrument you are using.
Simon
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http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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On 03/16/2014 05:33 AM, Simon Iten wrote:
[...]
Any digital instrument also has latencies. Basically it is a matter of playing the instrument you are using.
How are you measuring the latency?
-Jonathan
Simon
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BTW, not to overstate the obvious, but...
A good way to measure total latency is with an oscilloscope. Hook up one probe to the mic, the other probe to a wire coming out of an output on your device. Then make a patch that sends the sound straight through, eg:
[dac~] | [adc~]
If you stimulate the mic with an impulse of some sort, you should see a spike and then the same spike a few (or perhaps more than a few) ms later on the scope. You can be very exact about this by using the scope correctly.
For a bonus, subtract the latency on Pd (one of the settings in audio settings) from this to find out the latency of everything in your signal chain that is not due to Pd. -David
On 03/16/2014 11:37 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
On 03/16/2014 05:33 AM, Simon Iten wrote:
[...]
Any digital instrument also has latencies. Basically it is a matter of playing the instrument you are using.
How are you measuring the latency?
-Jonathan
Simon
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Any digital instrument also has latencies. Basically it is a matter of playing the instrument you are using.
How are you measuring the latency?
with a digital instrument, in this context, it has to be from the time the gesture is made that controls the effect, till the effect is heard by the listener, and separately till the effect is heard by the musician.
so the 15 or 20 ms of DSP processing latency is only one part of that... then add such things as input latency (say midi or the audio input circuitry, or the distance from source to microphone ...) output latency (say distance from the reproduced sound source to the ears).
then consider the response time involved in detecting the gestures, like in the recent thread here (or LAU?) talking about tracking following notes played on a guitar and using meta data based on that.
then consider the difference between judging the effect as heard by a listener compared to what is heard by the musician (re timing in this case, but generally these is a very substantially different sounds in any wood, flesh and metal instruments ... what a singer hears unless they are wearing headsets is very different indeed to what anyone else listening hears)
then consider the time between the start of a sound and its main attack, the time read as the timing of the note.
as pointed out earlier in the thread much western orchestral music is not tightly timed rhythmically, but there are many other very old musical traditions that are very percussive, with very intricate timings that deal with significant distances between players or with instruments like big gongs or bells that have huge latencies built in.
in very many circumstances, now and historically, 20 ms here or there is tiny, as long as it is consistent ... jitter (generally) is unplayable.
in the particular circumstance of a musician whose experience is limited to playing with headsets or close monitors getting fed a mix of the final sound sent to the listener ... most of those normal latencies have been bypassed and the digital world has made that kind of performance much, much easier for modern musicians (those playing with that kind of technological assistance) ... then 15 ms can become very significant ... best for them to avoid big gongs, plus any digital effect that requires taking latency into account when playing.
Simon
Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable
I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms.
The accumulation of a monitors and an effect or two gets you to 8ms. Acceptable latency is 12 ms.
Again, I haven't measured my rig or the latency of my old wearable rig, both both were responsive to me, so they must e at least around 12 ms.
Sorry for being unscientific about it.
enohp ym morf tnes
Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal.
no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-)
On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar -> effects -> amp latencies are already closer to 20ms.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises.
On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hi dan,
tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there…
your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway?
thanks again
simon
On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P
On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote:
Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =)
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/
Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon)
On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
> I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources. > > On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote: > >> >> Hi Dan, >> >> Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing. >> >> All best, >> >> Jamie >> >> >> On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> Heres a trim of my notes: >>> >>> Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already): >>> >>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>> >>> I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...): >>> >>> echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.conf >>> >>> Also add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login: >>> >>> # kill pulse audio if it was spawned >>> pulseaudio -k >>> >>> I'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard: >>> >>> pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5 >>> >>> Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev. >>> >>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> without jack i should add... >>>> On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> hey dan, >>>>> >>>>> unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-) >>>>> >>>>> would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. >>>>> but please post your setup. >>>>> >>>>> thanks >>>>> >>>>> On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference. >>>>>> >>>>>> I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need. >>>>>> >>>>>> As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing. >>>>>> >>>>>> From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime. >>>>>> >>>>>> I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues >>>>>>> Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT >>>>>>> To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com >>>>>>> Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> H iSimon - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces >>>>>>> around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should >>>>>>> be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured >>>>>>> this out first. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>> Miller >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote: >>>>>>>> hey list, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. >>>>>>>> i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. >>>>>>>> are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? >>>>>>>> is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> cheers. >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- >>>>>> Dan Wilcox >>>>>> @danomatika >>>>>> danomatika.com >>>>>> robotcowboy.com >>> >>> -------- >>> Dan Wilcox >>> @danomatika >>> danomatika.com >>> robotcowboy.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > -------- > Dan Wilcox > @danomatika > danomatika.com > robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- Richie
www.glitchpop.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox wrote:
Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable
I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms.
No, it's the amp to ear, related to speed of sound in atmosphere (around 300m/s).
The electric signal in your guitar cable goes way faster.
In "modern" sound gear (such as the Yamaha 01V sound board), you can volontarily add latency to outputs, so that the audience receives the sound waves from distant loudspeakers at the same time. This comes handy when the subwoofers are under the seats of the audience (2 meters away from audience), and the others loudspeakers are farther away.
Sorry for being unscientific about it.
Who cares that the figures does not back you, if you feel good and it sounds greats :) ?
Cheers,
hmm,
well to me 12ms is way to much. but then again i play a lot of fast attack notes in up-tempo pieces :-)
thanks for your notes anyway, they helped a lot! and write back when you tried with the debian hardfloat image. i tried it for a short time and it was not very stable with pd. but then again i did not try a lot of things to fix this.
cheers On 15 Mar 2014, at 13:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable
I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms.
The accumulation of a monitors and an effect or two gets you to 8ms. Acceptable latency is 12 ms.
Again, I haven't measured my rig or the latency of my old wearable rig, both both were responsive to me, so they must e at least around 12 ms.
Sorry for being unscientific about it.
enohp ym morf tnes
Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal.
no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-)
On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar -> effects -> amp latencies are already closer to 20ms.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises.
On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hi dan,
tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there…
your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway?
thanks again
simon
On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P
On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote:
Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =)
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/
Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon)
On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
> I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources. > > On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote: > >> >> Hi Dan, >> >> Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing. >> >> All best, >> >> Jamie >> >> >> On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> Heres a trim of my notes: >>> >>> Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already): >>> >>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>> >>> I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...): >>> >>> echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.conf >>> >>> Also add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login: >>> >>> # kill pulse audio if it was spawned >>> pulseaudio -k >>> >>> I'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard: >>> >>> pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5 >>> >>> Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev. >>> >>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> without jack i should add... >>>> On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> hey dan, >>>>> >>>>> unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-) >>>>> >>>>> would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. >>>>> but please post your setup. >>>>> >>>>> thanks >>>>> >>>>> On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference. >>>>>> >>>>>> I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need. >>>>>> >>>>>> As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing. >>>>>> >>>>>> From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime. >>>>>> >>>>>> I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues >>>>>>> Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT >>>>>>> To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com >>>>>>> Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> H iSimon - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces >>>>>>> around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should >>>>>>> be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured >>>>>>> this out first. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>> Miller >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote: >>>>>>>> hey list, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. >>>>>>>> i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. >>>>>>>> are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? >>>>>>>> is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> cheers. >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- >>>>>> Dan Wilcox >>>>>> @danomatika >>>>>> danomatika.com >>>>>> robotcowboy.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -------- >>> Dan Wilcox >>> @danomatika >>> danomatika.com >>> robotcowboy.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> > > -------- > Dan Wilcox > @danomatika > danomatika.com > robotcowboy.com > > > > >
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- Richie
www.glitchpop.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Yeah, I wanted to use the hard float image but I was under time pressure and more things seemed to work out of the box with the Linaro one. I'll have more time to revisit it later.
On Mar 15, 2014, at 12:46 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hmm,
well to me 12ms is way to much. but then again i play a lot of fast attack notes in up-tempo pieces :-)
thanks for your notes anyway, they helped a lot! and write back when you tried with the debian hardfloat image. i tried it for a short time and it was not very stable with pd. but then again i did not try a lot of things to fix this.
cheers On 15 Mar 2014, at 13:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable
I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms.
The accumulation of a monitors and an effect or two gets you to 8ms. Acceptable latency is 12 ms.
Again, I haven't measured my rig or the latency of my old wearable rig, both both were responsive to me, so they must e at least around 12 ms.
Sorry for being unscientific about it.
enohp ym morf tnes
Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal.
no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-)
On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar -> effects -> amp latencies are already closer to 20ms.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises.
On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hi dan,
tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there…
your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway?
thanks again
simon
On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P
On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote:
> Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =) > > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: > FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/ > > Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon) > > On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: > >> I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources. >> >> On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi Dan, >>> >>> Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing. >>> >>> All best, >>> >>> Jamie >>> >>> >>> On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> Heres a trim of my notes: >>>> >>>> Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already): >>>> >>>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>>> >>>> I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...): >>>> >>>> echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.conf >>>> >>>> Also add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login: >>>> >>>> # kill pulse audio if it was spawned >>>> pulseaudio -k >>>> >>>> I'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard: >>>> >>>> pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5 >>>> >>>> Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev. >>>> >>>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> without jack i should add... >>>>> On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> hey dan, >>>>>> >>>>>> unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. >>>>>> but please post your setup. >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues >>>>>>>> Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT >>>>>>>> To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com >>>>>>>> Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> H iSimon - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces >>>>>>>> around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should >>>>>>>> be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured >>>>>>>> this out first. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>> Miller >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote: >>>>>>>>> hey list, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. >>>>>>>>> i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. >>>>>>>>> are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? >>>>>>>>> is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> cheers. >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>> Dan Wilcox >>>>>>> @danomatika >>>>>>> danomatika.com >>>>>>> robotcowboy.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> Dan Wilcox >>>> @danomatika >>>> danomatika.com >>>> robotcowboy.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>> >> >> -------- >> Dan Wilcox >> @danomatika >> danomatika.com >> robotcowboy.com >> >> >> >> >> > > -------- > Dan Wilcox > @danomatika > danomatika.com > robotcowboy.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > -- > Richie > > www.glitchpop.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
hey dan and list,
i gave pd on the debian hardfloat image a try and can not run it. it compiles just fine. this is what i get on the console...
debian@udoo-debian-hfp:~$ pd -verbose Pd-0.45.4 ("") compiled 14:17:43 Mar 24 2014 port 5400 TCL_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tcl/library" TK_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tk/library" wish "/usr/local/lib/pd/tcl//pd-gui.tcl" 5400 Waiting for connection request... /usr/local/lib/pd/bin/pd-watchdog watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd...
then a watchdog-signaling loop...
this also happens with the version installed via synaptic.
any thoughts?
cheers
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Yeah, I wanted to use the hard float image but I was under time pressure and more things seemed to work out of the box with the Linaro one. I'll have more time to revisit it later.
On Mar 15, 2014, at 12:46 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hmm,
well to me 12ms is way to much. but then again i play a lot of fast attack notes in up-tempo pieces :-)
thanks for your notes anyway, they helped a lot! and write back when you tried with the debian hardfloat image. i tried it for a short time and it was not very stable with pd. but then again i did not try a lot of things to fix this.
cheers On 15 Mar 2014, at 13:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable
I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms.
The accumulation of a monitors and an effect or two gets you to 8ms. Acceptable latency is 12 ms.
Again, I haven't measured my rig or the latency of my old wearable rig, both both were responsive to me, so they must e at least around 12 ms.
Sorry for being unscientific about it.
enohp ym morf tnes
Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal.
no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-)
On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar -> effects -> amp latencies are already closer to 20ms.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises.
On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hi dan,
tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there...
your script has some "errors" (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway?
thanks again
simon
On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P
On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote:
Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =)
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/
Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon)
On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources.
On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote:
Hi Dan,
Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing.
All best,
Jamie
On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Heres a trim of my notes:
Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already):
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways... ):
echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.confAlso add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login:
# kill pulse audio if it was spawned pulseaudio -kI'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard:
pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5
Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev.
On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
without jack i should add... On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hey dan,
unfortunately i'm in switzerland :-)
would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. but please post your setup.
thanks
On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference.
I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need.
As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing.
From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime.
I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D
On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote:
*From: *Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu *Subject: **Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues* *Date: *March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT *To: *Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com *Cc: *PD list pd-list@iem.at
H iSimon -
I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured this out first.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote:
hey list,
does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)?
the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect)
cheers. _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- Richie
www.glitchpop.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
nevermind, found the solution. here it is..
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2012-09/097892.html
cheers
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hey dan and list,
i gave pd on the debian hardfloat image a try and can not run it. it compiles just fine. this is what i get on the console...
debian@udoo-debian-hfp:~$ pd -verbose Pd-0.45.4 ("") compiled 14:17:43 Mar 24 2014 port 5400 TCL_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tcl/library" TK_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tk/library" wish "/usr/local/lib/pd/tcl//pd-gui.tcl" 5400 Waiting for connection request... /usr/local/lib/pd/bin/pd-watchdog watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd...
then a watchdog-signaling loop...
this also happens with the version installed via synaptic.
any thoughts?
cheers
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Yeah, I wanted to use the hard float image but I was under time pressure and more things seemed to work out of the box with the Linaro one. I'll have more time to revisit it later.
On Mar 15, 2014, at 12:46 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hmm,
well to me 12ms is way to much. but then again i play a lot of fast attack notes in up-tempo pieces :-)
thanks for your notes anyway, they helped a lot! and write back when you tried with the debian hardfloat image. i tried it for a short time and it was not very stable with pd. but then again i did not try a lot of things to fix this.
cheers On 15 Mar 2014, at 13:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable
I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms.
The accumulation of a monitors and an effect or two gets you to 8ms. Acceptable latency is 12 ms.
Again, I haven't measured my rig or the latency of my old wearable rig, both both were responsive to me, so they must e at least around 12 ms.
Sorry for being unscientific about it.
enohp ym morf tnes
Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal.
no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-)
On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar -> effects -> amp latencies are already closer to 20ms.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises.
On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hi dan,
tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there...
your script has some "errors" (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway?
thanks again
simon
On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P
On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote:
Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =)
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/
Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon)
On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources.
On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote:
Hi Dan,
Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing.
All best,
Jamie
On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Heres a trim of my notes:
Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already):
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from
http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways... ):
echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.confAlso add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login:
# kill pulse audio if it was spawned pulseaudio -kI'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard:
pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5
Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev.
On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
without jack i should add... On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hey dan,
unfortunately i'm in switzerland :-)
would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. but please post your setup.
thanks
On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference.
I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need.
As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing.
From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime.
I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D
On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote:
*From: *Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu *Subject: **Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues* *Date: *March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT *To: *Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com *Cc: *PD list pd-list@iem.at
H iSimon -
I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured this out first.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote:
hey list,
does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)?
the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect)
cheers. _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- Richie
www.glitchpop.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Ah cool thanks! This is actually the same issue I saw when I briefly tried the hard float image. I'll pick up another sd card and try again ...
On Mar 24, 2014, at 5:01 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
nevermind, found the solution. here it is..
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2012-09/097892.html
cheers
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: hey dan and list,
i gave pd on the debian hardfloat image a try and can not run it. it compiles just fine. this is what i get on the console...
debian@udoo-debian-hfp:~$ pd -verbose Pd-0.45.4 ("") compiled 14:17:43 Mar 24 2014 port 5400 TCL_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tcl/library" TK_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tk/library" wish "/usr/local/lib/pd/tcl//pd-gui.tcl" 5400 Waiting for connection request... /usr/local/lib/pd/bin/pd-watchdog watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd...
then a watchdog-signaling loop...
this also happens with the version installed via synaptic.
any thoughts?
cheers
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, I wanted to use the hard float image but I was under time pressure and more things seemed to work out of the box with the Linaro one. I'll have more time to revisit it later.
On Mar 15, 2014, at 12:46 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hmm,
well to me 12ms is way to much. but then again i play a lot of fast attack notes in up-tempo pieces :-)
thanks for your notes anyway, they helped a lot! and write back when you tried with the debian hardfloat image. i tried it for a short time and it was not very stable with pd. but then again i did not try a lot of things to fix this.
cheers On 15 Mar 2014, at 13:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable
I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms.
The accumulation of a monitors and an effect or two gets you to 8ms. Acceptable latency is 12 ms.
Again, I haven't measured my rig or the latency of my old wearable rig, both both were responsive to me, so they must e at least around 12 ms.
Sorry for being unscientific about it.
enohp ym morf tnes
Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal.
no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-)
On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar -> effects -> amp latencies are already closer to 20ms.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises.
On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hi dan,
tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there…
your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway?
thanks again
simon
On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P >
> On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote: > >> Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =) >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >> FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/ >> >> Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon) >> >> On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources. >>> >>> On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi Dan, >>>> >>>> Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing. >>>> >>>> All best, >>>> >>>> Jamie >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> Heres a trim of my notes: >>>>> >>>>> Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already): >>>>> >>>>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>>>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>>>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>>>> >>>>> I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...): >>>>> >>>>> echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.conf >>>>> >>>>> Also add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login: >>>>> >>>>> # kill pulse audio if it was spawned >>>>> pulseaudio -k >>>>> >>>>> I'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard: >>>>> >>>>> pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5 >>>>> >>>>> Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev. >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> without jack i should add... >>>>>> On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> hey dan, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. >>>>>>> but please post your setup. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues >>>>>>>>> Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT >>>>>>>>> To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> H iSimon - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces >>>>>>>>> around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should >>>>>>>>> be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured >>>>>>>>> this out first. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>>> Miller >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote: >>>>>>>>>> hey list, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. >>>>>>>>>> i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. >>>>>>>>>> are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? >>>>>>>>>> is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> cheers. >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>>> Dan Wilcox >>>>>>>> @danomatika >>>>>>>> danomatika.com >>>>>>>> robotcowboy.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------- >>>>> Dan Wilcox >>>>> @danomatika >>>>> danomatika.com >>>>> robotcowboy.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>> >>> >>> -------- >>> Dan Wilcox >>> @danomatika >>> danomatika.com >>> robotcowboy.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -------- >> Dan Wilcox >> @danomatika >> danomatika.com >> robotcowboy.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Richie >> >> www.glitchpop.com > > -------- > Dan Wilcox > @danomatika > danomatika.com > robotcowboy.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Coming back to this thread after some time, but thought it's better than starting a new thread. I'm testing Pd-0.43-2 (from Debian's repos) on the Debian hard floating point image provided by Udoo's website, with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 sound card (class compliant). I've been doing some tests to see what's the optimal performance I can get, and for now I'm getting no drop outs with a 44.1kHz sampling rate, 30ms delay and 128 block size. I tried to follow this wiki http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Low_latency_howto page to set up low latency, but it's a bit over my head. Since ALSA is already built, I started from here http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Low_latency_howto#PAM, but I can only understand the first step, below that I'm at loss. Has anyone tried to set this up, has anyone had better results (higher sampling rates, smaller delay)?
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:06 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Ah cool thanks! This is actually the same issue I saw when I briefly tried the hard float image. I'll pick up another sd card and try again ...
On Mar 24, 2014, at 5:01 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
nevermind, found the solution. here it is..
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2012-09/097892.html
cheers
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hey dan and list,
i gave pd on the debian hardfloat image a try and can not run it. it compiles just fine. this is what i get on the console...
debian@udoo-debian-hfp:~$ pd -verbose Pd-0.45.4 ("") compiled 14:17:43 Mar 24 2014 port 5400 TCL_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tcl/library" TK_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tk/library" wish "/usr/local/lib/pd/tcl//pd-gui.tcl" 5400 Waiting for connection request... /usr/local/lib/pd/bin/pd-watchdog watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd...
then a watchdog-signaling loop...
this also happens with the version installed via synaptic.
any thoughts?
cheers
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Yeah, I wanted to use the hard float image but I was under time pressure and more things seemed to work out of the box with the Linaro one. I'll have more time to revisit it later.
On Mar 15, 2014, at 12:46 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hmm,
well to me 12ms is way to much. but then again i play a lot of fast attack notes in up-tempo pieces :-)
thanks for your notes anyway, they helped a lot! and write back when you tried with the debian hardfloat image. i tried it for a short time and it was not very stable with pd. but then again i did not try a lot of things to fix this.
cheers On 15 Mar 2014, at 13:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable
I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms.
The accumulation of a monitors and an effect or two gets you to 8ms. Acceptable latency is 12 ms.
Again, I haven't measured my rig or the latency of my old wearable rig, both both were responsive to me, so they must e at least around 12 ms.
Sorry for being unscientific about it.
enohp ym morf tnes
Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal.
no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-)
On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar -> effects -> amp latencies are already closer to 20ms.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises.
On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hi dan,
tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there…
your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway?
thanks again
simon
On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P
On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote:
Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =)
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/
Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon)
On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources.
On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote:
Hi Dan,
Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing.
All best,
Jamie
On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Heres a trim of my notes:
Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already):
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from
http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways... ):
echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.confAlso add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login:
# kill pulse audio if it was spawned pulseaudio -kI'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard:
pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5
Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev.
On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
without jack i should add... On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hey dan,
unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-)
would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. but please post your setup.
thanks
On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference.
I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need.
As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing.
From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime.
I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D
On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote:
*From: *Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu *Subject: **Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues* *Date: *March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT *To: *Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com *Cc: *PD list pd-list@iem.at
H iSimon -
I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured this out first.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote:
hey list,
does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)?
the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect)
cheers. _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- Richie
www.glitchpop.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hi, I wonder whether this relatively poor performance has something to do with the fact that this soundcard is powered through USB. I know that this is a big issue on the RPi, so perhaps should get a powered USB hub and give it another try. Cheers,
Pierre.
2014-06-06 11:18 GMT+02:00 Alexandros Drymonitis via Pd-list < pd-list@lists.iem.at>:
Coming back to this thread after some time, but thought it's better than starting a new thread. I'm testing Pd-0.43-2 (from Debian's repos) on the Debian hard floating point image provided by Udoo's website, with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 sound card (class compliant). I've been doing some tests to see what's the optimal performance I can get, and for now I'm getting no drop outs with a 44.1kHz sampling rate, 30ms delay and 128 block size. I tried to follow this wiki http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Low_latency_howto page to set up low latency, but it's a bit over my head. Since ALSA is already built, I started from here http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Low_latency_howto#PAM, but I can only understand the first step, below that I'm at loss. Has anyone tried to set this up, has anyone had better results (higher sampling rates, smaller delay)?
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:06 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Ah cool thanks! This is actually the same issue I saw when I briefly tried the hard float image. I'll pick up another sd card and try again ...
On Mar 24, 2014, at 5:01 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
nevermind, found the solution. here it is..
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2012-09/097892.html
cheers
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hey dan and list,
i gave pd on the debian hardfloat image a try and can not run it. it compiles just fine. this is what i get on the console...
debian@udoo-debian-hfp:~$ pd -verbose Pd-0.45.4 ("") compiled 14:17:43 Mar 24 2014 port 5400 TCL_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tcl/library" TK_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tk/library" wish "/usr/local/lib/pd/tcl//pd-gui.tcl" 5400 Waiting for connection request... /usr/local/lib/pd/bin/pd-watchdog watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd...
then a watchdog-signaling loop...
this also happens with the version installed via synaptic.
any thoughts?
cheers
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Yeah, I wanted to use the hard float image but I was under time pressure and more things seemed to work out of the box with the Linaro one. I'll have more time to revisit it later.
On Mar 15, 2014, at 12:46 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hmm,
well to me 12ms is way to much. but then again i play a lot of fast attack notes in up-tempo pieces :-)
thanks for your notes anyway, they helped a lot! and write back when you tried with the debian hardfloat image. i tried it for a short time and it was not very stable with pd. but then again i did not try a lot of things to fix this.
cheers On 15 Mar 2014, at 13:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable
I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms.
The accumulation of a monitors and an effect or two gets you to 8ms. Acceptable latency is 12 ms.
Again, I haven't measured my rig or the latency of my old wearable rig, both both were responsive to me, so they must e at least around 12 ms.
Sorry for being unscientific about it.
enohp ym morf tnes
Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal.
no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-)
On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar -> effects -> amp latencies are already closer to 20ms.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises.
On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hi dan,
tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there…
your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway?
thanks again
simon
On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P
On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote:
Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =)
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/
Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon)
On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources.
On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote:
Hi Dan,
Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing.
All best,
Jamie
On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Heres a trim of my notes:
Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already):
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways... ):
echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.confAlso add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login:
# kill pulse audio if it was spawned pulseaudio -kI'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard:
pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5
Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev.
On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
without jack i should add... On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hey dan,
unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-)
would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. but please post your setup.
thanks
On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference.
I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need.
As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing.
From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime.
I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D
On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote:
*From: *Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu *Subject: **Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues* *Date: *March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT *To: *Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com *Cc: *PD list pd-list@iem.at
H iSimon -
I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured this out first.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote:
hey list,
does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)?
the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect)
cheers. _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
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-- Richie
www.glitchpop.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
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I just setup my UDOO Quad with the Debian hf image, the latest Pd vanilla, and a number of externals.
For realtime, you should do the following to add rt audio support:
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
This should get the -rt pd flag working. If you start pd with "pd -rt", you should now see:
priority 96 scheduling enabled.
priority 98 scheduling enabled.
These are my pd start options ("Unit-Control" is my main audio & playlist patch):
pd -nogui -rt -alsa -audiodev 5 -channels 2 ../../Unit-Control.pd &
I also renice pd to -10 in my run scripts to have the scheduler give it some more cpu.
renice -10 $(pidof pd)
With multiple cores, the system runs pretty great with a blocksize of 64 and a 10ms delay. I'll do some tests and check in later.
On Jun 6, 2014, at 5:28 AM, Pierre Massat pimassat@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, I wonder whether this relatively poor performance has something to do with the fact that this soundcard is powered through USB. I know that this is a big issue on the RPi, so perhaps should get a powered USB hub and give it another try. Cheers,
Pierre.
2014-06-06 11:18 GMT+02:00 Alexandros Drymonitis via Pd-list pd-list@lists.iem.at: Coming back to this thread after some time, but thought it's better than starting a new thread. I'm testing Pd-0.43-2 (from Debian's repos) on the Debian hard floating point image provided by Udoo's website, with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 sound card (class compliant). I've been doing some tests to see what's the optimal performance I can get, and for now I'm getting no drop outs with a 44.1kHz sampling rate, 30ms delay and 128 block size. I tried to follow this wiki page to set up low latency, but it's a bit over my head. Since ALSA is already built, I started from here, but I can only understand the first step, below that I'm at loss. Has anyone tried to set this up, has anyone had better results (higher sampling rates, smaller delay)?
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:06 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: Ah cool thanks! This is actually the same issue I saw when I briefly tried the hard float image. I'll pick up another sd card and try again ...
On Mar 24, 2014, at 5:01 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
nevermind, found the solution. here it is..
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2012-09/097892.html
cheers
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: hey dan and list,
i gave pd on the debian hardfloat image a try and can not run it. it compiles just fine. this is what i get on the console...
debian@udoo-debian-hfp:~$ pd -verbose Pd-0.45.4 ("") compiled 14:17:43 Mar 24 2014 port 5400 TCL_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tcl/library" TK_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tk/library" wish "/usr/local/lib/pd/tcl//pd-gui.tcl" 5400 Waiting for connection request... /usr/local/lib/pd/bin/pd-watchdog watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd...
then a watchdog-signaling loop...
this also happens with the version installed via synaptic.
any thoughts?
cheers
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, I wanted to use the hard float image but I was under time pressure and more things seemed to work out of the box with the Linaro one. I'll have more time to revisit it later.
On Mar 15, 2014, at 12:46 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hmm,
well to me 12ms is way to much. but then again i play a lot of fast attack notes in up-tempo pieces :-)
thanks for your notes anyway, they helped a lot! and write back when you tried with the debian hardfloat image. i tried it for a short time and it was not very stable with pd. but then again i did not try a lot of things to fix this.
cheers On 15 Mar 2014, at 13:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable
I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms.
The accumulation of a monitors and an effect or two gets you to 8ms. Acceptable latency is 12 ms.
Again, I haven't measured my rig or the latency of my old wearable rig, both both were responsive to me, so they must e at least around 12 ms.
Sorry for being unscientific about it.
enohp ym morf tnes
Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal.
no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-)
On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar -> effects -> amp latencies are already closer to 20ms.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises.
On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
> hi dan, > > tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there… > > your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway? > > thanks again > > simon > > On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: > >> Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P >>
>> On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =) >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>> FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/ >>> >>> Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon) >>> >>> On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources. >>>> >>>> On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Dan, >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing. >>>>> >>>>> All best, >>>>> >>>>> Jamie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Heres a trim of my notes: >>>>>> >>>>>> Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already): >>>>>> >>>>>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>>>>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>>>>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>>>>> >>>>>> I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...): >>>>>> >>>>>> echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.conf >>>>>> >>>>>> Also add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login: >>>>>> >>>>>> # kill pulse audio if it was spawned >>>>>> pulseaudio -k >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard: >>>>>> >>>>>> pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5 >>>>>> >>>>>> Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> without jack i should add... >>>>>>> On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> hey dan, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. >>>>>>>> but please post your setup. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues >>>>>>>>>> Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT >>>>>>>>>> To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> H iSimon - >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces >>>>>>>>>> around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should >>>>>>>>>> be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured >>>>>>>>>> this out first. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>>>> Miller >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> hey list, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. >>>>>>>>>>> i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. >>>>>>>>>>> are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? >>>>>>>>>>> is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> cheers. >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>>>> Dan Wilcox >>>>>>>>> @danomatika >>>>>>>>> danomatika.com >>>>>>>>> robotcowboy.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- >>>>>> Dan Wilcox >>>>>> @danomatika >>>>>> danomatika.com >>>>>> robotcowboy.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>> >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> Dan Wilcox >>>> @danomatika >>>> danomatika.com >>>> robotcowboy.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -------- >>> Dan Wilcox >>> @danomatika >>> danomatika.com >>> robotcowboy.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Richie >>> >>> www.glitchpop.com >> >> -------- >> Dan Wilcox >> @danomatika >> danomatika.com >> robotcowboy.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
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Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Ok, some informal tests yielded the following:
- -nosleep causes lots of drop outs and actually locks up X windows, I needed to ssh in order to kill pd
- --rt audiobuf 6 -blocksize 64 are about as low as I could go without dropouts ... but really, *no* dropouts & very smooth. I'm happy!
On Jun 6, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I just setup my UDOO Quad with the Debian hf image, the latest Pd vanilla, and a number of externals.
For realtime, you should do the following to add rt audio support:
sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
This should get the -rt pd flag working. If you start pd with "pd -rt", you should now see:
priority 96 scheduling enabled. priority 98 scheduling enabled.These are my pd start options ("Unit-Control" is my main audio & playlist patch):
pd -nogui -rt -alsa -audiodev 5 -channels 2 ../../Unit-Control.pd &I also renice pd to -10 in my run scripts to have the scheduler give it some more cpu.
renice -10 $(pidof pd)With multiple cores, the system runs pretty great with a blocksize of 64 and a 10ms delay. I'll do some tests and check in later.
On Jun 6, 2014, at 5:28 AM, Pierre Massat pimassat@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, I wonder whether this relatively poor performance has something to do with the fact that this soundcard is powered through USB. I know that this is a big issue on the RPi, so perhaps should get a powered USB hub and give it another try. Cheers,
Pierre.
2014-06-06 11:18 GMT+02:00 Alexandros Drymonitis via Pd-list pd-list@lists.iem.at: Coming back to this thread after some time, but thought it's better than starting a new thread. I'm testing Pd-0.43-2 (from Debian's repos) on the Debian hard floating point image provided by Udoo's website, with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 sound card (class compliant). I've been doing some tests to see what's the optimal performance I can get, and for now I'm getting no drop outs with a 44.1kHz sampling rate, 30ms delay and 128 block size. I tried to follow this wiki page to set up low latency, but it's a bit over my head. Since ALSA is already built, I started from here, but I can only understand the first step, below that I'm at loss. Has anyone tried to set this up, has anyone had better results (higher sampling rates, smaller delay)?
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:06 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: Ah cool thanks! This is actually the same issue I saw when I briefly tried the hard float image. I'll pick up another sd card and try again ...
On Mar 24, 2014, at 5:01 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
nevermind, found the solution. here it is..
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2012-09/097892.html
cheers
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: hey dan and list,
i gave pd on the debian hardfloat image a try and can not run it. it compiles just fine. this is what i get on the console...
debian@udoo-debian-hfp:~$ pd -verbose Pd-0.45.4 ("") compiled 14:17:43 Mar 24 2014 port 5400 TCL_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tcl/library" TK_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tk/library" wish "/usr/local/lib/pd/tcl//pd-gui.tcl" 5400 Waiting for connection request... /usr/local/lib/pd/bin/pd-watchdog watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd... watchdog: signaling pd...
then a watchdog-signaling loop...
this also happens with the version installed via synaptic.
any thoughts?
cheers
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, I wanted to use the hard float image but I was under time pressure and more things seemed to work out of the box with the Linaro one. I'll have more time to revisit it later.
On Mar 15, 2014, at 12:46 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
hmm,
well to me 12ms is way to much. but then again i play a lot of fast attack notes in up-tempo pieces :-)
thanks for your notes anyway, they helped a lot! and write back when you tried with the debian hardfloat image. i tried it for a short time and it was not very stable with pd. but then again i did not try a lot of things to fix this.
cheers On 15 Mar 2014, at 13:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable
I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms.
The accumulation of a monitors and an effect or two gets you to 8ms. Acceptable latency is 12 ms.
Again, I haven't measured my rig or the latency of my old wearable rig, both both were responsive to me, so they must e at least around 12 ms.
Sorry for being unscientific about it.
enohp ym morf tnes
Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote:
dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal.
no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-)
On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
> I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar -> effects -> amp latencies are already closer to 20ms. > > Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises. > > On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: > >> hi dan, >> >> tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there… >> >> your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway? >> >> thanks again >> >> simon >> >> On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P >>>
>>> On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitchpop@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =) >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>>> FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/ >>>> >>>> Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 & https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon) >>>> >>>> On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources. >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock jamie@jamiebullock.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Dan, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing. >>>>>> >>>>>> All best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jamie >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Heres a trim of my notes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already): >>>>>>> >>>>>>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>>>>>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>>>>>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf' >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways...): >>>>>>> >>>>>>> echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.conf >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> # kill pulse audio if it was spawned >>>>>>> pulseaudio -k >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> without jack i should add... >>>>>>>> On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> hey dan, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo. >>>>>>>>> but please post your setup. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great. The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a difference. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few externals I need. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps. Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd + ALSA in testing. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are probably not running in realtime. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request@iem.at wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From: Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues >>>>>>>>>>> Date: March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT >>>>>>>>>>> To: Simon Iten itensimon@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> H iSimon - >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB interfaces >>>>>>>>>>> around here that I can try. I'm about to go on an intense trip but should >>>>>>>>>>> be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has figured >>>>>>>>>>> this out first. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>>>>> Miller >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> hey list, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. >>>>>>>>>>>> i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. >>>>>>>>>>>> are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? >>>>>>>>>>>> is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> cheers. >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>>>>> Dan Wilcox >>>>>>>>>> @danomatika >>>>>>>>>> danomatika.com >>>>>>>>>> robotcowboy.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>> Dan Wilcox >>>>>>> @danomatika >>>>>>> danomatika.com >>>>>>> robotcowboy.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------- >>>>> Dan Wilcox >>>>> @danomatika >>>>> danomatika.com >>>>> robotcowboy.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> Dan Wilcox >>>> @danomatika >>>> danomatika.com >>>> robotcowboy.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Richie >>>> >>>> www.glitchpop.com >>> >>> -------- >>> Dan Wilcox >>> @danomatika >>> danomatika.com >>> robotcowboy.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> > > -------- > Dan Wilcox > @danomatika > danomatika.com > robotcowboy.com > > > > >
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 9:14 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Ok, some informal tests yielded the following:
- -nosleep causes lots of drop outs and actually locks up X windows, I
needed to ssh in order to kill pd
- --rt audiobuf 6 -blocksize 64 are about as low as I could go without
dropouts ... but really, *no* dropouts & very smooth. I'm happy!
You could really set the delay to 6ms? Even at 10 I got drop outs. 12 seemed to work fine, need to test it more extensively though. Also, for now I'm using the GUI (not much happening though), without the GUI do you think I'll get significant differences? Eventually I won't be using any GUI... A 64 blocksize worked, so in general the performance is really improved.
Concerning nice, to get this right, the smaller the number of nice, the higher the priority Pd will get? When I type 'renice -10 $(pidof pd)' I get '4355 (process ID) old priority 0, new priority -10'. This is good, right?
Also, when I start Pd I get: priority 6 scheduling enabled. priority 8 scheduling enabled.
And not 96 and 98 as you wrote. Is this important?
Cheers
Sending again to list ...
On Jun 9, 2014, at 12:38 PM, Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 9:14 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: Ok, some informal tests yielded the following:
- -nosleep causes lots of drop outs and actually locks up X windows, I needed to ssh in order to kill pd
- --rt audiobuf 6 -blocksize 64 are about as low as I could go without dropouts ... but really, *no* dropouts & very smooth. I'm happy!
You could really set the delay to 6ms? Even at 10 I got drop outs. 12 seemed to work fine, need to test it more extensively though. Also, for now I'm using the GUI (not much happening though), without the GUI do you think I'll get significant differences? Eventually I won't be using any GUI... A 64 blocksize worked, so in general the performance is really improved.
Performance was great with X windows and without. Again, I built the latest Pd vanilla so that might have something to do with it? Also, I'm using a USB soundcard (Roland Edirol UA-25EX) not the built in one. I didn't try Pd with the gui at 6 ms, but it was working fine at 12 ms. I don't use the gui when running the system for a show as it's not needed.
Concerning nice, to get this right, the smaller the number of nice, the higher the priority Pd will get? When I type 'renice -10 $(pidof pd)' I get '4355 (process ID) old priority 0, new priority -10'. This is good, right?
Yes.
Also, when I start Pd I get: priority 6 scheduling enabled. priority 8 scheduling enabled.
And not 96 and 98 as you wrote. Is this important?
Dunno.
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
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