Hi,
Indeed, something is wrong at https://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone. I tried to recreate the page but it is still reporting a Site Error. Starting from scratch wouldn't be too bad as most data was outdated. But as I said, the download page is mainly for downloading files and some extra info, not as generic as the normal wiki pages.
I suppose you have to ask the real admin here, IOhannes, to fix this.
Greetings,
Fred Jan
On 26-03-17 08:52, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
howdy, off list, I'm really sorry to say I screwed up pretty badly and deleted the "cyclone" project or something when trying to update it in puredata.info http://puredata.info
I guess we'll have to recreate it somehow, or maybe restore it? I need help :/
sorry :(
2017-03-25 23:39 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com mailto:porres@gmail.com>:
2017-03-25 18:07 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan <fjkraan@xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl>>: I did add the user 'porres' to the /downloads/cyclone creators list. Editing should work now. Thanks! I tried to add Derek too, let's see if it works as well ;) While editing, I found these pages less flexible than generic wiki pages. Nowadays for source distribution there is the github site and for binary distribution there is deken. The best these pages can do at the moment is point at the right direction... Agreed!
On 03/26/2017 10:02 AM, Fred Jan Kraan wrote:
Hi,
Indeed, something is wrong at https://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone. I tried to recreate the page but it is still reporting a Site Error.
sigh. no time to fix this now. in the meantime, it would be interesting to know what you did to break it.
Starting from scratch wouldn't be too bad as most data was outdated. But as I said, the download page is mainly for downloading files and some extra info, not as generic as the normal wiki pages.
yes, the downloads section is not as flexible as a wiki page. instead it provides a very strict corset, making finding information easier by providing a standardized interface for all kind of libraries and authors. this is a feature, not a bug.
gfmadsr IOhannes
2017-03-26 9:23 GMT-03:00 zmoelnig@iem.at:
On 03/26/2017 10:02 AM, Fred Jan Kraan wrote:
Hi,
Indeed, something is wrong at https://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone. I tried to recreate the page but it is still reporting a Site Error.
sigh. no time to fix this now. in the meantime, it would be interesting to know what you did to break it.
I was trying to remove the old featured releases from the page (alpha55 and the "experimental" alpha57). Was having a rather hard time managing it, then I ended up trying to delete them. Apparently, deleting the releases did delete the page... meaning that the page was actually the release itself with some contents, is that possible? IF so, that's something I hadn't realized, as the releases were listed as "contents", not the page itself.
Anyway, that's the best I can do to describe my mess :/
sorry
On 03/26/2017 05:08 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
I was trying to remove the old featured releases from the page (alpha55 and the "experimental" alpha57)
why would you want to do that?
it always puzzles me no end how people believe they can undo the course of history by trying to rip out pages of a book.
gfmards IOhannes
2017-03-26 15:24 GMT-03:00 IOhannes m zmölnig zmoelnig@iem.at:
On 03/26/2017 05:08 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
I was trying to remove the old featured releases from the page (alpha55
and
the "experimental" alpha57)
why would you want to do that?
cyclone 0.1-alpha55 was featured as the *latest* stable release, I wanted to remove that because that was not true and quite misleading, as that release was over 12 years ago... the "alpha57" as some new experimental release was also not true and misleading.
Instead of using the cyclone page in puredata.info as a source for releases, both me and Fred Jan agreed it was just best to mention that the latest releases are available in deken, and then use that page to point to cyclone repositories for more info (this was discussed on this list on the "editing puredata.info downloads" thread).
So, in order to update the cyclone page, there were basically two options: add new releases to it OR remove the releases from that page. As the latter choice was agreed to be the best, I was trying to do it...
Then I evidently could not get a grip on how to remove the releases from the page, and I did screw it up badly, but I obviously had no intention of doing anything irreversible, or to destroy and remove the cyclone page - that was an accident.
it always puzzles me no end how people believe they can undo the course of history by trying to rip out pages of a book.
It puzzles me you'd assume that was the case here :)
Moreover, it should be noticeable that I've been working very hard on researching and finding about the history of cyclone on my own, so I can present it and preserve it accurately, as I've been doing in my repository and on a paper I wrote and presented in the last pd convention. So don't worry, cyclone's history is preserved, and it wasn't really well presented in that page anyway... And, as a matter of fact, I was portraying a much better overview of cyclone's history before I accidentally deleted the page.
I hope you please reconsider the idea and notion I was trying to erase history...
cheers
2017-03-26 5:02 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan fjkraan@xs4all.nl:
Starting from scratch wouldn't be too bad as most data was outdated. But as I said, the download page is mainly for downloading files and some extra info, not as generic as the normal wiki pages.
Ok, yeah, seems that a cyclone page in the download section then is not pertinent anymore, as we'd have to use it for releasing packages, and since deken, that is kind of a waste of energy...
But anyway, we have agreed not to use it for downloads, but just present some general info, mention that people should use deken and point to the repositories. In this case it seems it's best to just have a simple wiki page on puredata.info outside the downloads page, huh?
cheers
2017-03-26 17:02 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
2017-03-26 15:24 GMT-03:00 IOhannes m zmölnig zmoelnig@iem.at:
On 03/26/2017 05:08 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
I was trying to remove the old featured releases from the page (alpha55
and
the "experimental" alpha57)
why would you want to do that?
cyclone 0.1-alpha55 was featured as the *latest* stable release, I wanted to remove that because that was not true and quite misleading, as that release was over 12 years ago... the "alpha57" as some new experimental release was also not true and misleading.
Instead of using the cyclone page in puredata.info as a source for releases, both me and Fred Jan agreed it was just best to mention that the latest releases are available in deken, and then use that page to point to cyclone repositories for more info (this was discussed on this list on the "editing puredata.info downloads" thread).
So, in order to update the cyclone page, there were basically two options: add new releases to it OR remove the releases from that page. As the latter choice was agreed to be the best, I was trying to do it...
Then I evidently could not get a grip on how to remove the releases from the page, and I did screw it up badly, but I obviously had no intention of doing anything irreversible, or to destroy and remove the cyclone page - that was an accident.
it always puzzles me no end how people believe they can undo the course of history by trying to rip out pages of a book.
It puzzles me you'd assume that was the case here :)
Moreover, it should be noticeable that I've been working very hard on researching and finding about the history of cyclone on my own, so I can present it and preserve it accurately, as I've been doing in my repository and on a paper I wrote and presented in the last pd convention. So don't worry, cyclone's history is preserved, and it wasn't really well presented in that page anyway... And, as a matter of fact, I was portraying a much better overview of cyclone's history before I accidentally deleted the page.
I hope you please reconsider the idea and notion I was trying to erase history...
cheers
On 03/26/2017 10:02 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
cyclone 0.1-alpha55 was featured as the *latest* stable release, I wanted to remove that because that was not true and quite misleading,
it seems that there is a fundamental misunderstanding here.
there was no information stating that "0.1-alpha55 *is* the lastest stable release". the downloads section doesn't work like this. instead it is accumulative and inclusive. from a list of all stable releases, it will highlight the latest one.
so if you want to fix the "not true and quite misleading information" you should start by providing correct and unambiguous information, rather than trying to root out all the information that is not correct (from your point of view). be constructive, rather than destructive.
since yesterday, the /downloads/cyclone/ page has been owned by three people:
- krzysztof
- fred jan
- alex
please: it is *your* responsibility to not fuck up the content of others. i understand that the website is showing its age, also from a UX point of view. but that is what we currently have. i think you should either accept the rigidness of /downloads/ and try to "go with the flow" of the page, or just plainly ignore it. (something i find quite similar to Pd, where you are basically lost as soon as you try to force your well known control-flow mechanics onto that odd data-flow paradigm).
anyhow, i think i've learned *my* lesson.
fmdsar IOhannes
Hi, I understand and take responsibility, I know I made mistake and screwed up, and I apologize, I'm sorry. I hope we can move on and restore it, please.
So, I just wanna help and dedicate some of my effort to contribute to < puredata.info>. All I wanted was something like this < http://puredata.info/downloads/purr-data%3E; which was added a couple of day ago. Notice there are no featured/experimental releases or anything on it, just links to the release.
Nowadays, this seems like a more reasonable practice to point to a github rather than using puredata.info to host the releases. I can add yet another example of a relevant new Pd project outside <puredata.info> : < https://github.com/danomatika/PdParty%3E
I don't mean to be destructive, on the contrary, if you feel 'alpha55' should be made available, even though it is not one of the 3 available cyclone versions in deken, I can work on uploading it too... but it has been discussed and agreed that we should not use cyclone to release new versions as today this has been outgrown by other means, aka deken...
So, how to create a new plain and empty cyclone page if restoring the old one ends up to be too troublesome? Mostly because the choice now is to not use it as it was being used...
cheers
2017-03-26 17:43 GMT-03:00 zmoelnig@iem.at:
so if you want to fix the "not true and quite misleading information" you should start by providing correct and unambiguous information, rather than trying to root out all the information that is not correct (from your point of view). be constructive, rather than destructive.
since yesterday, the /downloads/cyclone/ page has been owned by three people:
- krzysztof
- fred jan
- alex
please: it is *your* responsibility to not fuck up the content of others. i understand that the website is showing its age, also from a UX point of view. but that is what we currently have. i think you should either accept the rigidness of /downloads/ and try to "go with the flow" of the page, or just plainly ignore it. (something i find quite similar to Pd, where you are basically lost as soon as you try to force your well known control-flow mechanics onto that odd data-flow paradigm).
anyhow, i think i've learned *my* lesson.
fmdsar IOhannes
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/li stinfo/pd-list
I was able to create a new project and replicate what I did, giving out the same error, even though it was all basically empty.
- Clicked in "Go to the release folder to add or publish a release." (which
led me to "downloads/cyclone/releases";
- then in "actions", hit "delete".
so, as I did replicate it, this is now also true for the new folder I had created, in "/downloads/cyclone03".
I have yet a third cyclone folder (empty, for testing), which I don't know how to delete without generating yet a third screwed up folder.
cheers
2017-03-26 18:15 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
Hi, I understand and take responsibility, I know I made mistake and screwed up, and I apologize, I'm sorry. I hope we can move on and restore it, please.
So, I just wanna help and dedicate some of my effort to contribute to < puredata.info>. All I wanted was something like this < http://puredata.info/downloads/purr-data%3E; which was added a couple of day ago. Notice there are no featured/experimental releases or anything on it, just links to the release.
Nowadays, this seems like a more reasonable practice to point to a github rather than using puredata.info to host the releases. I can add yet another example of a relevant new Pd project outside <puredata.info> : < https://github.com/danomatika/PdParty%3E
I don't mean to be destructive, on the contrary, if you feel 'alpha55' should be made available, even though it is not one of the 3 available cyclone versions in deken, I can work on uploading it too... but it has been discussed and agreed that we should not use cyclone to release new versions as today this has been outgrown by other means, aka deken...
So, how to create a new plain and empty cyclone page if restoring the old one ends up to be too troublesome? Mostly because the choice now is to not use it as it was being used...
cheers
2017-03-26 17:43 GMT-03:00 zmoelnig@iem.at:
so if you want to fix the "not true and quite misleading information" you should start by providing correct and unambiguous information, rather than trying to root out all the information that is not correct (from your point of view). be constructive, rather than destructive.
since yesterday, the /downloads/cyclone/ page has been owned by three people:
- krzysztof
- fred jan
- alex
please: it is *your* responsibility to not fuck up the content of others. i understand that the website is showing its age, also from a UX point of view. but that is what we currently have. i think you should either accept the rigidness of /downloads/ and try to "go with the flow" of the page, or just plainly ignore it. (something i find quite similar to Pd, where you are basically lost as soon as you try to force your well known control-flow mechanics onto that odd data-flow paradigm).
anyhow, i think i've learned *my* lesson.
fmdsar IOhannes
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/li stinfo/pd-list
On 27/03/2017 04:57, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
I was able to create a new project and replicate what I did, giving out the same error, even though it was all basically empty.
A while ago I managed to break the page:
https://puredata.info/downloads/granita-minimalist-granular-synthesis
Trying to fix the fact that that page was pointing to and obsolete Gitorious page as a fellow Pd user pointed out...
Trouble is I'm not sure what I did exactly to break it, nor how to fix it :)
Any idea on how to constructively fix it would be appreciated...
Lorenzo.
On 03/27/2017 05:45 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
A while ago I managed to break the page:
https://puredata.info/downloads/granita-minimalist-granular-synthesis
[...]
Any idea on how to constructively fix it would be appreciated...
i've deleted that folder as well... gfads IOhannes
On 27/03/2017 21:40, zmoelnig@iem.at wrote:
On 03/27/2017 05:45 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
A while ago I managed to break the page:
https://puredata.info/downloads/granita-minimalist-granular-synthesis
[...]
Any idea on how to constructively fix it would be appreciated...
i've deleted that folder as well...
Thanks!
Lorenzo.
On 03/27/2017 04:57 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
I was able to create a new project and replicate what I did, giving out the same error, even though it was all basically empty.
- Clicked in "Go to the release folder to add or publish a release." (which
led me to "downloads/cyclone/releases";
- then in "actions", hit "delete".
thanks for that. you indeed hit a bug in the page. i will try to fix that. in the meantime, just don't remove anything in 'releases' :-)
so, as I did replicate it, this is now also true for the new folder I had created, in "/downloads/cyclone03".
I have yet a third cyclone folder (empty, for testing), which I don't know how to delete without generating yet a third screwed up folder.
i've removed all three cyclone folders. i will try to restore the original cyclone folder. i still believe in (historistic) value of keeping old releases around.
fgmrdsa IOhannes
PS: i'm sure i overreacted in my last emails. sorry about that. (i was both seriously deprived of sleep *and* seriously pissed off)
2017-03-27 16:40 GMT-03:00 zmoelnig@iem.at:
i'm sure i overreacted in my last emails. sorry about that.
no worries, I'm sympathetic for people getting mad :)
2017-03-27 16:40 GMT-03:00 zmoelnig@iem.at:
you indeed hit a bug in the page.
yeah, I was sure it was a bug, I just didn't say it cause I was afraid on how you'd react :)
i will try to restore the original cyclone folder.
i still believe in (historistic) value of keeping old releases around.
Me too, I'm all up for keeping the history, but this would make sense if we were to keep using that page as a release source. As it is, there's a conflict, either we have the cake or we eat it. If having that particular version of cyclone available is the concern, let's put it up in deken, I can work on that.
cheers
On 2017-03-28 02:22, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
Me too, I'm all up for keeping the history, but this would make sense if we were to keep using that page as a release source. As it is, there's a conflict, either we have the cake or we eat it.
i don't see your point.
the current way of showing the "last" release and making all available via downloads/<projects>/ seems to work for all¹ projects but cyclone. since i don't see anything special about cyclone, there must be a misunderstanding of how to use that page.
for instance, take the "pure-data" [1] project: it has all the old and obsolete releases (just click on "releases"), and still the casual user will be presented with the most up-to-date release on the front-page. ok, you might say that Pd does traditional releases (rather than just tag something on gitlab).
another example is the "purr-data" [2] project, which uses github as a distribution mechanism; albert just created a dummy release that will show upfront and which points to github).
you can also mix and match the two. e.g. in Gem (known for it's frequent releases) [3], there's traditional releases coexisting with mere references to an externally hosted repository.
If having that particular version of cyclone available is the concern, let's put it up in deken, I can work on that.
btw, you might not be aware of that, but deken (the plugin) works nicely with https://puredata.info/downloads/. as long as the files uploaded for a release match the deken naming convention, they will show up in the search results (e.g. zexy does this). unfortunately the deken-cmdline utility cannot be used (yet(?)) to upload the release files to https://puredata.info/downloads/, sou you have to do that manually.
gmsdr IOhannes
¹ i'm sure that more projects are not entirely happy; but of the ~160 software projects available, i've heard very few complaints. i don't think i am *that* intimidating.
[1] https://puredata.info/downloads/pure-data/ [2] https://puredata.info/downloads/purr-data/ [3] https://puredata.info/downloads/gem/
2017-03-28 5:02 GMT-03:00 IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at:
another example is the "purr-data" [2] project, which uses github as a
distribution mechanism; albert just created a dummy release that will
show upfront and which points to github).
I hadn't figured that out at first, but I did notice recently that there was a dummy release. It's clear now there's no other way to deal with this page. Anyway, that seems like a nice solution. I'll just try and do that.
you can also mix and match the two. e.g. in Gem (known for it's frequent
releases) [3], there's traditional releases coexisting with mere references to an externally hosted repository.
Yeah, that did not seem possible for me as the last cyclone page wasn't doing it.
the casual user will be presented with the most up-to-date release on the
front-page.
Cool, I can just add a new dummy release, I don't care old and obsolete code/releases are there, and I might even upload more older code. I have back ups even from alpha54 ;)
you might not be aware of that, but deken (the plugin) works nicely
I still have no idea how deken works, it'd be nice if I can then edit that old release so it shows up in deken...
Anyway, I see the cyclone page is up again, can I have edit powers?
and, did you fix that bug?
cheers
2017-03-28 10:21 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
Anyway, I see the cyclone page is up again, can I have edit powers?
howdy, please, I'd really like to work on it and update it
and, did you fix that bug?
not that it will matter now...
cheers
2017-03-30 12:33 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
2017-03-28 10:21 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
Anyway, I see the cyclone page is up again, can I have edit powers?
howdy, please, I'd really like to work on it and update it
howdy, this is the third time in a week that I'm asking permissions to edit and update the cyclone page, if there is any issue in the way, I'd like to know please, thanks
On 03-04-17 08:02, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
howdy, this is the third time in a week that I'm asking permissions to edit and update the cyclone page, if there is any issue in the way, I'd like to know please, thanks
Well, I looked at the page, but I have no permissions either to give away.
Greetings,
Fred Jan
2017-04-03 14:28 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan fjkraan@xs4all.nl:
Well, I looked at the page, but I have no permissions either to give away.
yeah, I thought so... page was also restored to before the last changes you had made, so it's now really very outdated (before, though still outdated, it was at least pointing to the current repositories).
well, I hope we can update it soon... I get it if there's something in the way and I need to wait or something, but it's been like 10 days and no reply about the (more than one) request.
IOhannes, please, can the cyclone page be edited and updated to include the newer available versions?
cheers
On 2017-04-06 06:00, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
IOhannes, please, can the cyclone page be edited and updated to include the newer available versions?
i finally found time to check that page with a backup. i have now added you and fred-jan again as "owners", so you can edit.
despite being called "owner", i would ask you to not delete any content you have not created yourself (including old and outdated releases)
fgamsdr IOhannes
thank you, sorry for being so insistent
i would ask you to not delete any content
no worries, from our discussion, I have figured out how to not need to do that for what I wanted.
I will in fact try to include every release after 0.1alpha56 for historical reasons (that'd be 0.1-alpha57, 0.2beta and 0.3alpha)
cheers
-
Alexandre Torres Porres -
Fred Jan Kraan -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
IOhannes m zmölnig
-
Lorenzo Sutton -
zmoelnig＠iem.at