(Bringing it back to the list.)
There has been a performance regression in Pd 0.56-test1 that sounds very similar to yours: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/2654. However, that one has been resolved since the final 0.56 release. (I've just tested to make sure.)
If I create a new empty GOP, and put 4 of these buttons in it, and duplicate that GOP 32 times, I start getting glitches when mousing around.
I just made a patch with 64 GOP subpatches, each containing 4 instances of your abstraction. Then I tried to quickly move the mouse over the canvas. Here are my results:
Pd 0.56-1: [iemlib/dsp~] reports an average load of 7-10% and occasional peak loads of up to 28%.
Pd 0.55-2: [iemlib/dsp~] reports an average load of 0.5-1% and occasional peaks of up to 3%.
In both cases, the average idle load (with DSP turned on) is 0.5-1%.
(Tested on a Windows 10 laptop with an AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 5850U.)
So there is indeed a noticable performance regression! Please open a ticket on GitHub!
Christof
On 11.09.2025 00:56, Brady Sharp wrote:
So yes, I've got LOTS of GOP's, and GOP's within GOP's, probably up to 3 layers deep in some places. I've eliminated the input streaming factor and just added a [osc~ 440] going direct to [dac~] within the patch.
In PD-0.56-1: Running iem/dsp~, it shows a 38%-ish CPU load, and a 35%-ish Mean CPU Load when idle. As I mouse over the canvas, it goes crazy, like 190% Peak, 85% Mean, adn audio glitches, until I stop moving the mouse, or move off the canvas. But the oddest part is, I can freely drag around these multi-layer GOP's, and there are no audio glitches and the DSP metering stays the same. It's only when moving the mouse without dragging anything that it has the issue.
In PD-0.55-1: DSP peaks around 40%-ish, with a mean of about 36%-ish, no matter what I do with the mouse. Audio stays consistent.
Going back to PD-0.56-1: I put in the [osc~ 440] into the [dac~] again, and just started deleting swaths of my GOP abstractions. Picture these as modular guitar effects. Lets say I loosely have about 32 of them (with vastly different DSP requirements, but I really don't think that's the issue). These are GOP's within GOP's, mostly 2 levels deep for the most part. I have to reduce them to about 6 before I stop getting dropouts while moving the mouse.
After starting from scratch with a new patch with just an [osc~]->[dac~], I think I've found an abstraction that triggers it. It's basically a Midi Assign button. It IS a very small GOP abstraction, and of course I've got probably 120 of them in my performance patch. Basically [asnbtn 5] creates a button labelled "5." on the GOP, that can be used to assign a midi command to an effect parameter. There really isn't much to it. there is no audio DSP on it at all, just message routing. If I create a new empty GOP, and put 4 of these buttons in it, and duplicate that GOP 32 times, I start getting glitches when mousing around.
Again, ONLY in pd-0.56-1.
Abstraction is attached for reference.
If this is appropriate to post to the github, I'm happy to, I'm just making sure it's nothing exclusive to my PC. I'm happy for more testing suggestions if there are any.
Thanks,
Brady
On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 2:27 PM Christof Ressi info@christofressi.com wrote:
Hi,
Only starting in 0.56-1, whenever I move my mouse cursor, I'm getting audio glitching that corresponds to the mouse movement as it moves across the PD Canvas.
Does it only happen if the canvas contains many objects or many GOPs? Or does it also happen with an empty canvas? What's the CPU usage of the "pd" process and the "wish" process when you're moving the mouse? Christof On 10.09.2025 19:29, Brady Sharp wrote:
Hi Folks, Only starting in 0.56-1, whenever I move my mouse cursor, I'm getting audio glitching that corresponds to the mouse movement as it moves across the PD Canvas. Ironically, this is just when hovering the mouse over the canvas and moving it. If I pick up a GOP subpatch and drag it, the audio glitching goes away! If I move the mouse outside of the PD Canvas, it also goes away. I'm running on an old Core 2 duo 6300 laptop (8gb RAM) with a reasonably complicated patch (takes about 10 seconds to load), but adding any other apps in the background doesn't seem to affect it in any way. Increasing audio delay or audio block size settings has no effect either. PD's DPS block size always stays at 64. I tried recreating the preferences file as well. Ruled out a USB Mouse and a USB Hub and all MIDI devices as well. Those don't seem to matter. Running latest Manjaro with XFCE desktop (X11) with pd 0.56-1, and using Pipewire (JACK) 0.55-1 still works great and has none of these symptoms under the same conditions. Both versions are compiled, ie. not using the pd packaged with Manjaro. Because of the behavior above, it leads me to think something has changed with either PD or TCL... Any thoughts? Thanks in advance! -- Brady Sharp bradysharp@gmail.com bradysharp.com <http://bradysharp.com> --- pd-list@lists.iem.at - the Pure Data mailinglist https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-list@lists.iem.at/message/SD4MIGEPYJY2B6UJRGZTVN6CI6YJZH6A/ To unsubscribe send an email topd-list-leave@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->https://lists.iem.at/
--- pd-list@lists.iem.at - the Pure Data mailinglist https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-list@lists.iem.at/message/4OHWZI4OTVHSWCTRHFB5SIAKJGILVJKB/ To unsubscribe send an email to pd-list-leave@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.iem.at/
-- Brady Sharp bradysharp@gmail.com bradysharp.com http://bradysharp.com
I'll start a ticket. Thanks for confirming! And apologies for botching up the list reply.
Brady Sharp bradysharp@gmail.com
On Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 7:31 PM Christof Ressi info@christofressi.com wrote:
(Bringing it back to the list.)
There has been a performance regression in Pd 0.56-test1 that sounds very similar to yours: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/2654. However, that one has been resolved since the final 0.56 release. (I've just tested to make sure.)
If I create a new empty GOP, and put 4 of these buttons in it, and duplicate that GOP 32 times, I start getting glitches when mousing around.
I just made a patch with 64 GOP subpatches, each containing 4 instances of your abstraction. Then I tried to quickly move the mouse over the canvas. Here are my results:
Pd 0.56-1: [iemlib/dsp~] reports an average load of 7-10% and occasional peak loads of up to 28%.
Pd 0.55-2: [iemlib/dsp~] reports an average load of 0.5-1% and occasional peaks of up to 3%.
In both cases, the average idle load (with DSP turned on) is 0.5-1%.
(Tested on a Windows 10 laptop with an AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 5850U.)
So there is indeed a noticable performance regression! Please open a ticket on GitHub!
Christof On 11.09.2025 00:56, Brady Sharp wrote:
So yes, I've got LOTS of GOP's, and GOP's within GOP's, probably up to 3 layers deep in some places. I've eliminated the input streaming factor and just added a [osc~ 440] going direct to [dac~] within the patch.
In PD-0.56-1: Running iem/dsp~, it shows a 38%-ish CPU load, and a 35%-ish Mean CPU Load when idle. As I mouse over the canvas, it goes crazy, like 190% Peak, 85% Mean, adn audio glitches, until I stop moving the mouse, or move off the canvas. But the oddest part is, I can freely drag around these multi-layer GOP's, and there are no audio glitches and the DSP metering stays the same. It's only when moving the mouse without dragging anything that it has the issue.
In PD-0.55-1: DSP peaks around 40%-ish, with a mean of about 36%-ish, no matter what I do with the mouse. Audio stays consistent.
Going back to PD-0.56-1: I put in the [osc~ 440] into the [dac~] again, and just started deleting swaths of my GOP abstractions. Picture these as modular guitar effects. Lets say I loosely have about 32 of them (with vastly different DSP requirements, but I really don't think that's the issue). These are GOP's within GOP's, mostly 2 levels deep for the most part. I have to reduce them to about 6 before I stop getting dropouts while moving the mouse.
After starting from scratch with a new patch with just an [osc~]->[dac~], I think I've found an abstraction that triggers it. It's basically a Midi Assign button. It IS a very small GOP abstraction, and of course I've got probably 120 of them in my performance patch. Basically [asnbtn 5] creates a button labelled "5." on the GOP, that can be used to assign a midi command to an effect parameter. There really isn't much to it. there is no audio DSP on it at all, just message routing. If I create a new empty GOP, and put 4 of these buttons in it, and duplicate that GOP 32 times, I start getting glitches when mousing around.
Again, ONLY in pd-0.56-1.
Abstraction is attached for reference.
If this is appropriate to post to the github, I'm happy to, I'm just making sure it's nothing exclusive to my PC. I'm happy for more testing suggestions if there are any.
Thanks,
Brady
On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 2:27 PM Christof Ressi info@christofressi.com wrote:
Hi,
Only starting in 0.56-1, whenever I move my mouse cursor, I'm getting audio glitching that corresponds to the mouse movement as it moves across the PD Canvas.
Does it only happen if the canvas contains many objects or many GOPs? Or does it also happen with an empty canvas?
What's the CPU usage of the "pd" process and the "wish" process when you're moving the mouse?
Christof On 10.09.2025 19:29, Brady Sharp wrote:
Hi Folks,
Only starting in 0.56-1, whenever I move my mouse cursor, I'm getting audio glitching that corresponds to the mouse movement as it moves across the PD Canvas. Ironically, this is just when hovering the mouse over the canvas and moving it. If I pick up a GOP subpatch and drag it, the audio glitching goes away! If I move the mouse outside of the PD Canvas, it also goes away. I'm running on an old Core 2 duo 6300 laptop (8gb RAM) with a reasonably complicated patch (takes about 10 seconds to load), but adding any other apps in the background doesn't seem to affect it in any way. Increasing audio delay or audio block size settings has no effect either. PD's DPS block size always stays at 64. I tried recreating the preferences file as well. Ruled out a USB Mouse and a USB Hub and all MIDI devices as well. Those don't seem to matter.
Running latest Manjaro with XFCE desktop (X11) with pd 0.56-1, and using Pipewire (JACK)
0.55-1 still works great and has none of these symptoms under the same conditions. Both versions are compiled, ie. not using the pd packaged with Manjaro.
Because of the behavior above, it leads me to think something has changed with either PD or TCL...
Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
-- Brady Sharp bradysharp@gmail.com bradysharp.com
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