hi list.
i was just thinking about something, maybe it's a bad idea, but i'll fire it off anyway: how about having a pd-patching-competition on a regular basis (annual?). not to see who's the best of the best, but just to have an overview of the broad spectrum of state-of-the-art pd programming.
categories might include: -best audio patch in general -best algorithmic composition patch -best sequenced/live track -best 2d/3d visualisation (interactive and sequenced) -best multimedial patch -best artistic installation patch -best (non-audio-non-video) utility patch -best patch coolness/filesize ratio -best game -best abuse of medium -funniest patch -best patch collection/patch lib -obfuscated pd contest? ;) -speedpatching contest (get a topic and finish within 2hrs) -everything(!) goes contest other suggestions? of course, some categories overlap a bit, so a patch could win in game/abuse/funny/obfuscated/multimedia/etc. all at once, so maybe there should be a restriction of 1 category per entry?
prizes might include: -fame, kudos -lifetime free pd license (free updates included!) any sponsors for other prizes interested?
judging could either be done by a jury, or by a community poll. the judging could be based on: -overall coolness -ease of use/interface ergonomy -installation (single patch or tons of paths to configure first) -adaptability/reusability for/in other contexts -portability (consistent gui appearance on major oses, not too exotic externals) -configurability -code readability (is it clean and well documented?) -filesize (no huge tables saved with the patch) -patch ethics? (no patches to harm kittens and fire missles anywhere) and maybe lots of other things.
it's just that i observed that in some communities, like the demoscene or the int-fiction one, periodical contest results are a good starting point for interested newbies and an inspirational source for seasoned users. the competition could be held within a neat puredata.info wiki. the only thing i'd fear is that there might be not enough entries to hold an meaningful voting. the pd list is 1000+ members, but the regular posters are just a handful (and out of those, not everyone releases patches regularly). i hope that for such a contest some of the interested lurkers and occasional posters would come out of their holes and participate. but as stated in the beginning, maybe it's a bad idea. any comments?
charlie
On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:29:58PM +0200, Christopher Charles wrote:
i was just thinking about something, maybe it's a bad idea, but i'll fire it off anyway: how about having a pd-patching-competition on a regular basis (annual?). not to see who's the best of the best, but just
I would love to see this happen, and would certainly enter.
Best,
Chris.
chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx
Just watch out for the best visual external category...flamewar! ;-)
~Kyle
On 8/30/06, Chris McCormick chris@mccormick.cx wrote:
On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:29:58PM +0200, Christopher Charles wrote:
i was just thinking about something, maybe it's a bad idea, but i'll fire it off anyway: how about having a pd-patching-competition on a regular basis (annual?). not to see who's the best of the best, but just
I would love to see this happen, and would certainly enter.
Best,
Chris.
chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
But in all seriousness, this is a great idea. I'd love to use--uh, judge the competitors patches, and learn better techniques through it.
How would you propose the vote? By a panel of veterans? By the whole list?
~Kyle
On 8/30/06, Kyle Klipowicz kyleklip@gmail.com wrote:
Just watch out for the best visual external category...flamewar! ;-)
~Kyle
On 8/30/06, Chris McCormick chris@mccormick.cx wrote:
On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:29:58PM +0200, Christopher Charles wrote:
i was just thinking about something, maybe it's a bad idea, but i'll fire it off anyway: how about having a pd-patching-competition on a regular basis (annual?). not to see who's the best of the best, but just
I would love to see this happen, and would certainly enter.
Best,
Chris.
chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())()))) (())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((()))) ))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________ _____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______ ((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO
Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
But in all seriousness, this is a great idea. I'd love to use--uh, judge the competitors patches, and learn better techniques through it.
How would you propose the vote? By a panel of veterans? By the whole list?
i don't know yet. a jury of veterans would throw up the question who is a veteran and who is not and would prevent those veterans from taking part in the competition. i'd rather suggest some kind of community-vote; taking it out on the list might generate a lot of traffic though. a good solution might be a series of (closed?) polls on a page like puredata.info, but i don't know if that's possible.
On 8/30/06, Kyle Klipowicz kyleklip@gmail.com wrote:
Just watch out for the best visual external category...flamewar! ;-)
i did not include an externals category into my suggestions, for they are often too diverse and specialized to compare.
charlie
I think this is a cool idea.
My only concern would be, whether cross-platform and version issues, which are obviously still being sorted out by some of us, might be a problem. What happens if someone who is judding six entries, can't run three of them for some reason?
~David
On 8/30/06, Christopher Charles schraubzwingenhalterung@web.de wrote:
Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
But in all seriousness, this is a great idea. I'd love to use--uh, judge the competitors patches, and learn better techniques through it.
How would you propose the vote? By a panel of veterans? By the whole list?
i don't know yet. a jury of veterans would throw up the question who is a veteran and who is not and would prevent those veterans from taking part in the competition. i'd rather suggest some kind of community-vote; taking it out on the list might generate a lot of traffic though. a good solution might be a series of (closed?) polls on a page like puredata.info, but i don't know if that's possible.
On 8/30/06, Kyle Klipowicz kyleklip@gmail.com wrote:
Just watch out for the best visual external category...flamewar! ;-)
i did not include an externals category into my suggestions, for they are often too diverse and specialized to compare.
charlie
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
A simple solution would to allow only submissions written in generic Pd, sans externals.
~Kyle
On 8/30/06, David Powers cyborgk@gmail.com wrote:
I think this is a cool idea.
My only concern would be, whether cross-platform and version issues, which are obviously still being sorted out by some of us, might be a problem. What happens if someone who is judding six entries, can't run three of them for some reason?
~David
On 8/30/06, Christopher Charles schraubzwingenhalterung@web.de wrote:
Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
But in all seriousness, this is a great idea. I'd love to use--uh, judge the competitors patches, and learn better techniques through it.
How would you propose the vote? By a panel of veterans? By the whole list?
i don't know yet. a jury of veterans would throw up the question who is a veteran and who is not and would prevent those veterans from taking part in the competition. i'd rather suggest some kind of community-vote; taking it out on the list might generate a lot of traffic though. a good solution might be a series of (closed?) polls on a page like puredata.info, but i don't know if that's possible.
On 8/30/06, Kyle Klipowicz kyleklip@gmail.com wrote:
Just watch out for the best visual external category...flamewar! ;-)
i did not include an externals category into my suggestions, for they are often too diverse and specialized to compare.
charlie
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hallo, David Powers hat gesagt: // David Powers wrote:
I think this is a cool idea.
My only concern would be, whether cross-platform and version issues, which are obviously still being sorted out by some of us, might be a problem. What happens if someone who is judding six entries, can't run three of them for some reason?
We could easily circumvent this by doing something like a "pure-pd" compo: Make the most out of what Miller gives us. I guess, then Obiwannabe would win. ;)
But I would prefer an "everyone's a winner" compo anyways.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
I would really love a 'make the most realistic rhodes synth' made from pure pd objects. At least it would be more straightforward to judge the sounds produced. And then we would all get to play with a neat sound that we all love to hear. I guess for the image/video guys we could have another compo like 'make the most realistic turd out of sphere3d objects' or the like....hehehe. yum!
Matt
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://www.loopit.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Frank Barknecht wrote:
We could easily circumvent this by doing something like a "pure-pd" compo: Make the most out of what Miller gives us. I guess, then Obiwannabe would win. ;)
But I would prefer an "everyone's a winner" compo anyways.
Ciao
pure-pd should definitely have a category of it's own, too. about the "everyone's a winner" argument, well, without the competitive aspect the compo would become a simple patch show-off like it is possible right now, too (everyone can show his or her patches whenever he or she wants). having a real competition, the pd community might garner some more attention throughout the various other geek/art/music/opensource communities. how about "everyone's a winner, but only one patch per category gets the representative winner badge (which represents all the other winners, too , of course)"? ;) all in all, i, too, think it's not the winners that count (but being a pd-compo winner would make your mommy mighty proud). it's more important to have a central collection of recent patches that show off the state of the art patching capabilities of the pd community on a regular basis.
charlie
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:12:17 +0200 Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
Hallo, David Powers hat gesagt: // David Powers wrote:
I think this is a cool idea.
My only concern would be, whether cross-platform and version issues, which are obviously still being sorted out by some of us, might be a problem. What happens if someone who is judding six entries, can't run three of them for some reason?
We could easily circumvent this by doing something like a "pure-pd" compo: Make the most out of what Miller gives us. I guess, then Obiwannabe would win. ;)
No, because nobody would have [ead~] :)
I think it's a top idea btw, and to have lots of prizes everyone who participates can also award as many prizes as they like :)
For focus, two classes of competition categories seem to exist. By media where the submission is a piece of audio or video. By code, where the program is the entry. The potential, and difficulties of the last are greaert, and the former is easier to manage and judge.
Me, i'd like to see more games ideas, so a Pd games compo would be cool sometime. When I was last playing with Gem I loaded some counterstrike textures and make a little room, so I'm sure some of you video wizards could build a "PureDOOM" (with chainsaws please).
But I would prefer an "everyone's a winner" compo anyways.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On 8/31/06, padawan12 padawan12@obiwannabe.co.uk wrote:
No, because nobody would have [ead~] :)
Just use Frank's [vead~] ;-).
For focus, two classes of competition categories seem to exist. By media where the submission is a piece of audio or video. By code, where the program is the entry. The potential, and difficulties of the last are greaert, and the former is easier to manage and judge.
I agree, but for the media submissions, the source patches should be required (to prevent cheating, but also to facilitate copycatting!).
~Kyle
David Powers wrote:
I think this is a cool idea.
My only concern would be, whether cross-platform and version issues, which are obviously still being sorted out by some of us, might be a problem. What happens if someone who is judding six entries, can't run three of them for some reason?
that's why i suggested portability as a judging criterium. if a judge can't open a patch because he is to lazy to compile the required external, then it's his problem, but if a required external is definitely not available for his setup, then the patch is to blame. maybe there should be a subcategory especially for very cool patches that are sadly not portable due to whatever reason.
charlie
Hallo, Christopher Charles hat gesagt: // Christopher Charles wrote:
Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
But in all seriousness, this is a great idea. I'd love to use--uh, judge the competitors patches, and learn better techniques through it.
How would you propose the vote? By a panel of veterans? By the whole list?
i don't know yet. a jury of veterans would throw up the question who is a veteran and who is not and would prevent those veterans from taking part in the competition. i'd rather suggest some kind of community-vote; taking it out on the list might generate a lot of traffic though. a good solution might be a series of (closed?) polls on a page like puredata.info, but i don't know if that's possible.
We did a Pd Compo for the pd convention 2004 and just decided: Everyone is a winner. I think it's nice to set a certain goal or limit, though. The pd-convention compo had a patch size limit, and it was required to do both audio and graphics.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Hi Frank,
As far as you know, are those patches available anywhere? They would be very interesting to study!
Thanks, p
On Aug 30, 2006, at 11:29 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Christopher Charles hat gesagt: // Christopher Charles wrote:
Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
But in all seriousness, this is a great idea. I'd love to use--uh, judge the competitors patches, and learn better techniques
through it.How would you propose the vote? By a panel of veterans? By the
whole list?i don't know yet. a jury of veterans would throw up the question
who is a veteran and who is not and would prevent those veterans from taking part in the competition. i'd rather suggest some kind of community- vote; taking it out on the list might generate a lot of traffic though.
a good solution might be a series of (closed?) polls on a page like puredata.info, but i don't know if that's possible.We did a Pd Compo for the pd convention 2004 and just decided: Everyone is a winner. I think it's nice to set a certain goal or limit, though. The pd-convention compo had a patch size limit, and it was required to do both audio and graphics.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
Hallo, Paris Treantafeles hat gesagt: // Paris Treantafeles wrote:
As far as you know, are those patches available anywhere? They would be very interesting to study!
Well, it was planned to published them on goto10.org, who initiated the compo, but somehow someone lost track of actually doing it.
I only have mine and the invitation patch. If someone (IOhannes? Aymeric?) could send me the missing patches, I would add them there.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Hi Frank.
If they exist and could be put online, that would be fantastic. For what it's worth, I too prefer the "everyone's a winner" approach.
Best, p
On Aug 30, 2006, at 12:08 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Paris Treantafeles hat gesagt: // Paris Treantafeles wrote:
As far as you know, are those patches available anywhere? They would be very interesting to study!
Well, it was planned to published them on goto10.org, who initiated the compo, but somehow someone lost track of actually doing it.
I only have mine and the invitation patch. If someone (IOhannes? Aymeric?) could send me the missing patches, I would add them there.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
hi
On 8/30/06, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
We did a Pd Compo for the pd convention 2004 and just decided: Everyone is a winner. I think it's nice to set a certain goal or limit, though. The pd-convention compo had a patch size limit, and it was required to do both audio and graphics.
some kinda project might be nice.
'make at most 3 minutes of music using the rtc lib just released'
and people could contribute to the project for a limited time period. all entries would then be posted some where publically accessible.
maybe the wiki could be used for something like this?
On Wed Aug 30, 2006 at 04:36:15PM +0200, Christopher Charles wrote:
Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
But in all seriousness, this is a great idea. I'd love to use--uh, judge the competitors patches, and learn better techniques through it.
How would you propose the vote? By a panel of veterans? By the whole list?
i don't know yet. a jury of veterans would throw up the question who is a veteran and who is not and would prevent those veterans from taking part in the competition. i'd rather suggest some kind of community-vote; taking it out on the list might generate a lot of traffic though. a good solution might be a series of (closed?) polls on a page like puredata.info, but i don't know if that's possible.
On 8/30/06, Kyle Klipowicz kyleklip@gmail.com wrote:
Just watch out for the best visual external category...flamewar! ;-)
i did not include an externals category into my suggestions, for they are often too diverse and specialized to compare.
did the pure-data gang-bang actually get any submissions besides Frank's datastructure game and aymeric's GEM movie? its original mission staetement and submissions solicitation sounded a lot like the one that started this thread...
charlie
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hallo, carmen hat gesagt: // carmen wrote:
did the pure-data gang-bang actually get any submissions besides Frank's datastructure game and aymeric's GEM movie? its original mission staetement and submissions solicitation sounded a lot like the one that started this thread...
Yes, there were five submission if memory serves me right. I like the one by the Gerard van Dongen the most, and I would especially like to see this one online somewhere.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
did the pure-data gang-bang actually get any submissions besides Frank's datastructure game and aymeric's GEM movie? its original mission staetement and submissions solicitation sounded a lot like the one that started this thread...
Yes, there were five submission if memory serves me right. I like the one by the Gerard van Dongen the most, and I would especially like to see this one online somewhere.
hm, five entries might be a little bit to few to hold a real multi-category competition. that's why i'd rather propose "real" competition with winners and real prizes as a incentive for participation (i'm just a student, but might cough up some bucks to sponsor a pd-shirt or book or cd or something like that (+shipping) for the winner of one category). the proposed pd competition should be less 'restrictive' than the pd trigger gang bang. (filesize, interactivity and external-use should be restricted only by the corresponding categories) multiple categories will reduce the entries/category ratio, which brings us to the question which categories are actually meaningful (maybe: "will attract the most entries"?) and what would be the minimum amount of entries per category to actually hold a vote on.
charlie
i think it's an awesome idea !!
On Aug 30, 2006, at 12:29 PM, Christopher Charles wrote:
hi list.
i was just thinking about something, maybe it's a bad idea, but i'll fire it off anyway: how about having a pd-patching-competition on a regular basis (annual?). not to see who's the best of the best, but just to have an overview of the broad spectrum of state-of-the-art pd programming.
categories might include: -best audio patch in general -best algorithmic composition patch -best sequenced/live track -best 2d/3d visualisation (interactive and sequenced) -best multimedial patch -best artistic installation patch -best (non-audio-non-video) utility patch -best patch coolness/filesize ratio -best game -best abuse of medium -funniest patch -best patch collection/patch lib -obfuscated pd contest? ;) -speedpatching contest (get a topic and finish within 2hrs) -everything(!) goes contest other suggestions? of course, some categories overlap a bit, so a patch could win in game/abuse/funny/obfuscated/multimedia/etc. all at once, so maybe there should be a restriction of 1 category per entry?
prizes might include: -fame, kudos -lifetime free pd license (free updates included!) any sponsors for other prizes interested?
judging could either be done by a jury, or by a community poll. the judging could be based on: -overall coolness -ease of use/interface ergonomy -installation (single patch or tons of paths to configure first) -adaptability/reusability for/in other contexts -portability (consistent gui appearance on major oses, not too exotic externals) -configurability -code readability (is it clean and well documented?) -filesize (no huge tables saved with the patch) -patch ethics? (no patches to harm kittens and fire missles anywhere) and maybe lots of other things.
it's just that i observed that in some communities, like the demoscene or the int-fiction one, periodical contest results are a good starting point for interested newbies and an inspirational source for seasoned users. the competition could be held within a neat puredata.info wiki. the only thing i'd fear is that there might be not enough entries to hold an meaningful voting. the pd list is 1000+ members, but the regular posters are just a handful (and out of those, not everyone releases patches regularly). i hope that for such a contest some of the interested lurkers and occasional posters would come out of their holes and participate. but as stated in the beginning, maybe it's a bad idea. any comments?
charlie
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
I think that this is a great idea in general, but also *especially* for someone like me who wouldn't win now (I've only been pd'ing for like... 3 months?) but damn, I could learn a lot from looking at some really well made and interesting patches.
Feed me, Kevin
On 8/30/06, Christopher Charles schraubzwingenhalterung@web.de wrote:
hi list.
i was just thinking about something, maybe it's a bad idea, but i'll fire it off anyway: how about having a pd-patching-competition on a regular basis (annual?). not to see who's the best of the best, but just to have an overview of the broad spectrum of state-of-the-art pd programming.
categories might include: -best audio patch in general -best algorithmic composition patch -best sequenced/live track -best 2d/3d visualisation (interactive and sequenced) -best multimedial patch -best artistic installation patch -best (non-audio-non-video) utility patch -best patch coolness/filesize ratio -best game -best abuse of medium -funniest patch -best patch collection/patch lib -obfuscated pd contest? ;) -speedpatching contest (get a topic and finish within 2hrs) -everything(!) goes contest other suggestions? of course, some categories overlap a bit, so a patch could win in game/abuse/funny/obfuscated/multimedia/etc. all at once, so maybe there should be a restriction of 1 category per entry?
prizes might include: -fame, kudos -lifetime free pd license (free updates included!) any sponsors for other prizes interested?
judging could either be done by a jury, or by a community poll. the judging could be based on: -overall coolness -ease of use/interface ergonomy -installation (single patch or tons of paths to configure first) -adaptability/reusability for/in other contexts -portability (consistent gui appearance on major oses, not too exotic externals) -configurability -code readability (is it clean and well documented?) -filesize (no huge tables saved with the patch) -patch ethics? (no patches to harm kittens and fire missles anywhere) and maybe lots of other things.
it's just that i observed that in some communities, like the demoscene or the int-fiction one, periodical contest results are a good starting point for interested newbies and an inspirational source for seasoned users. the competition could be held within a neat puredata.info wiki. the only thing i'd fear is that there might be not enough entries to hold an meaningful voting. the pd list is 1000+ members, but the regular posters are just a handful (and out of those, not everyone releases patches regularly). i hope that for such a contest some of the interested lurkers and occasional posters would come out of their holes and participate. but as stated in the beginning, maybe it's a bad idea. any comments?
charlie
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-
\js -
carmen -
Chris McCormick -
Christopher Charles -
David Powers -
Enrique Erne -
Frank Barknecht -
Kevin McCoy -
Kyle Klipowicz -
matthew jones -
padawan12 -
Paris Treantafeles