I think in terms of:
external: set of objects which are not part of the Pd core
library: compiled external object(s), akin to software library
abstraction library: collection of patch abstraction object(s)
As I see, there are 2 types of compiled externals, but I'm not sure how to call them:
1) “single binaries”? (is that how we actually call it?)
- “libraries” (but isn’t library and pack collection? Even abstraction collections like list-abs? So how do we call this to differentiate in terminology? “Monolithic” distribution?
thanks
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
2017-02-19 8:12 GMT-03:00 Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com:
I think in terms of:
external: set of objects which are not part of the Pd core
Never thought of "external" (singular) in terms of a "set". Don't you mean "an object" that is not part of Pd Core. By the way, by "Pd Core", do you mean the Pd binary (not including the "extra" files?) or all objects in the Pd Vanilla distribution?
library: compiled external object(s), akin to software library
abstraction library: collection of patch abstraction object(s)
Well, I always thought that a library could have compiled objects, abstractions, or both. I have seen many libraries in Extended that had both compiled and abstractions objects.
And, again, I'm confused with the singular/plural idea. Seems you're thinking that only one abstraction can be a "library", or just a single compiled object. But I've never seen people referring to, for example, the freeverb~ external as the "freeverb~ library". So my idea of "library" is really a collection of objects.
Surely I might have gotten things just wrong and that's why I'm asking if there is a consensus in the terminology
So, in short, the idea I've had so far is:
external (kinda short for "external object"): a single object not part of the Pd Vanilla distribution, either an abstraction or a compiled object
library (kinda short for "externals library"): collection of externals.
cheers
2017-02-19 12:34 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
But I've never seen people referring to, for example, the freeverb~ external as the "freeverb~ library".
So I checked freeverb~'s readme just to see how it referred to itself, here's the description
freeverb~ version 1.2 reverb *external* for Pure Data and Max/MSP written by Olaf Matthes olaf.matthes@gmx.de
I wasn’t implying my thought process was the “correct” usage of the the terms. :) I think Miller and IOhannes are the ones to weight in.
That being said, I think it boils down to, for me, “external(s)” was short for “external library(-ies),” as in software libraries and, even if there is only 1 class or object, it’s still a “library.”
From what I understand, your coming from the Pd object side so “external” means “1 object” not part of Pd vanilla and “externals” means “multiple objects” not part of vanilla. I think that definitely makes sense and perhaps I was coming from the wrong/developer direction.
So, in short, the idea I've had so far is:
external (kinda short for "external object"): a single object not part of the Pd Vanilla distribution, either an abstraction or a compiled object
library (kinda short for "externals library"): collection of externals.
Yeah, I think that’s probably a good way to look at it (as mentioned above).
I do like to note when a library is composed completely of abstractions, hence “abstraction library”, as it's easy to use and doesn’t require compilation.
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Well, like we were discussing in the other thread, I wish to edit the puredata.info FAQ section and work on updating "how to install and load externals" bit, and also add related stuff on "how to download externals from deken"...
As part of this endeavour, I also felt like working on questions like - what is an external? What are the types of externals? what is an external library? Things we take for granted but when you sit to write it down, you start questioning the concepts...
So this is what I'm coming down to, after thinking about it...
*- **Internal objects:** Objects that are part of Pd Vanilla’s binary *
- **External objects:** Objects that are **NOT** part of Pd Vanilla’s
binary (including pd's extra objects)*
- **Vanilla objects:** Objects that come in the Pd Vanilla distribution
(which contains the internals plus a small collection of externals - the “extra” objects).*
- **Types of external objects**: 1) Compiled binaries ; 2) Abstractions
(Pd patches).*
- **External Library:** Collection of external objects, be it
abstractions; a set of **separate binaries**; or a **single binary** containing several objects.*
2017-02-19 16:39 GMT-03:00 Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com:
I wasn’t implying my thought process was the “correct” usage of the the terms. :) I think Miller and IOhannes are the ones to weight in.
That being said, I think it boils down to, for me, “external(s)” was short for “external library(-ies),” as in software libraries and, even if there is only 1 class or object, it’s still a “library.”
From what I understand, your coming from the Pd object side so “external” means “1 object” not part of Pd vanilla and “externals” means “multiple objects” not part of vanilla. I think that definitely makes sense and perhaps I was coming from the wrong/developer direction.
So, in short, the idea I've had so far is:
external (kinda short for "external object"): a single object not part of the Pd Vanilla distribution, either an abstraction or a compiled object
library (kinda short for "externals library"): collection of externals.
Yeah, I think that’s probably a good way to look at it (as mentioned above).
I do like to note when a library is composed completely of abstractions, hence “abstraction library”, as it's easy to use and doesn’t require compilation.
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
I think that definitely makes sense and perhaps I was coming from the wrong/developer direction.
yes, I totally consider myself not a "developer*", in the sense I have zero training in computer science, language and jargons, so all my conceptions comes from being a pd user and pd patcher... this is the idea I have and the one I've been propagating to my Pd students, but I've never questioned it cause I took them for granted...
- though I've been developing some stuff to pd :)
2017-02-19 22:24 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
Well, like we were discussing in the other thread, I wish to edit the puredata.info FAQ section and work on updating "how to install and load externals" bit, and also add related stuff on "how to download externals from deken"...
As part of this endeavour, I also felt like working on questions like - what is an external? What are the types of externals? what is an external library? Things we take for granted but when you sit to write it down, you start questioning the concepts...
So this is what I'm coming down to, after thinking about it...
*- **Internal objects:** Objects that are part of Pd Vanilla’s binary *
- **External objects:** Objects that are **NOT** part of Pd Vanilla’s
binary (including pd's extra objects)*
- **Vanilla objects:** Objects that come in the Pd Vanilla distribution
(which contains the internals plus a small collection of externals - the “extra” objects).*
- **Types of external objects**: 1) Compiled binaries ; 2) Abstractions
(Pd patches).*
- **External Library:** Collection of external objects, be it
abstractions; a set of **separate binaries**; or a **single binary** containing several objects.*
2017-02-19 16:39 GMT-03:00 Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com:
I wasn’t implying my thought process was the “correct” usage of the the terms. :) I think Miller and IOhannes are the ones to weight in.
That being said, I think it boils down to, for me, “external(s)” was short for “external library(-ies),” as in software libraries and, even if there is only 1 class or object, it’s still a “library.”
From what I understand, your coming from the Pd object side so “external” means “1 object” not part of Pd vanilla and “externals” means “multiple objects” not part of vanilla. I think that definitely makes sense and perhaps I was coming from the wrong/developer direction.
So, in short, the idea I've had so far is:
external (kinda short for "external object"): a single object not part of the Pd Vanilla distribution, either an abstraction or a compiled object
library (kinda short for "externals library"): collection of externals.
Yeah, I think that’s probably a good way to look at it (as mentioned above).
I do like to note when a library is composed completely of abstractions, hence “abstraction library”, as it's easy to use and doesn’t require compilation.
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
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Alexandre Torres Porres -
Dan Wilcox