And please post out to the list if you can use help on anything, I
try to help out where I can, though I don't speak Portuguese and I
haven't been to South America...

.hc

On Sep 4, 2007, at 5:05 PM, PORRES wrote:

sure...

Hey, all "brasileiros" out there, send me private emails to get
involved, I am starting up a list of us...

at SBCM (Brasilian Simposum of computer music) they gladly wanted
to get involved, and help out in the organization of a pd con here
maybe connected to the next SBCM... By The Way, Miller was supposed
to be the guest at this SBCM and has announced a great interest to
come for the next... the events could happen one before the
other... next SBCM should be in Recife, which is a great beach
paradise... pd con should happen in Sao Paulo, which is the most
urban inferno... people could prepare to attend both events, which
works great because all flights stop at Sao Paulo anyway.... :)

i was amazed to see how many people were using pd and showing their
work on it at SBCM... as I have been saying, it would be great to
have a next pdcon here for these reasons...

I am gathering info on people here in Brasil, and the idea is to
organize a local convention next year, which should work as a
prelude to the international convention... maybe we can arrange to
make some meeting while Alexandre Castonguay (I know I spelled that
wrong) is here next april...

well, thats it for now...

keep in touch.

Cheers Alex

Luiz Naveda lab.naveda@gmail.com wrote: Please,

Keep me in touch.

I am Brazilian researcher (systematic musicology) in Gent-Belgium.
We are developing some work in Pd, kinetics and music.

best

Luiz

On 8/30/07, PORRES mentalosmosis@yahoo.com wrote:

Darsha: Alex Porres would be the one to talk to concerning a convention in South America...I think there has been some very unofficial discussion about having it there in 2009....Right Alex?

---

Glerm: Hello,

+1 in Brazil.

glerm

Alex: Hi folks, just got in Brasil... I will start talking to people now and will be getting back to you next week... please send me some files in personal email messages concerning the fundings, I am having kinda hard time to keep up with the list.

Meet Glerm above, a friend of mine who will gladly be involved with the organization, and has aso influenced me a lot and helped me getting into puredata :)

cheers alex

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As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and
this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin

hey, I am not sure if there is an exact border between users and developers. a user for me is someone who uses a prebuilt patch like netpd, but there are only very little patches that can be used without adaptation, so as soon as you use pd and change a patch or settings you start to become a developer. I also think, exchanging knowledge is what needs to be done, at the moment the most efforts go into making knowledge available (in english...) so that everybody can access it. on the other hand it would be nice to see how people use pd, and what the difficulties are. which type of computers it runs on. what do you mean with show business? tv shows? marius.

glerm soares wrote:

the events could happen one before the other... next SBCM should be
in Recife, which is a great beach paradise... 

...with sharks!... :D

I appreciate the interest of brazilian academics on this situation. But I think that "brazilian PD community" still very immature as a independent group. As far as I know - We don't have real developers as in Austria, Canada and Barcelona. We have the naif curious and the academics. Most of curious are newbies and most of academics are... hidden behind papers :). I think we have to concentrate more efforts in "realworld" users. To became more envolved in development and exchange MUCH MORE knowledge.

I REALLY respect all the guys that develep PD, but I don't want to suport any show business. I'd prefer to host you in __my home__ than any University (with all respect to intitutions that could support this) - for me the most intersting situation could be something very productive and envolving, much more like a "HACKLAB" than a "Simposium".

And c'mon - Pd on windows? make me laugh. And Sorry the sincerity - Macintoshes are tottaly out of social Brazilian reallity. Here a macintosh notebook is __a price of a car__. Just think about the meaning of this fetish here.

Support free Software, please! Brazil is the linux child - take care of this.

learn portuguese and meet people. brazil is not a postcard.

<learn_portuguese> Galera do brasil e países de lingua portuguesa que usa pd: estamos terminando a tradução dos tutoriais e varios helps do core do pd. temos um servidor subversion a disposição para trocarmos patches.

temos uma lista de discussão em português tambem.

vejam a página no grupo: http://www.estudiolivre.org/tiki-index.php?page=PureDeposito http://www.estudiolivre.org/tiki-index.php?page=PureDeposito

assinem a lista de discussão.

valeu!

</learn_portuguese>

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I think that the Montreal Pd Convention did a good job of being a community event while still having a academic segment. I think this is the best model for the Pd Convention. I think that a day of a barcamp would be really good too.

Sure, what amazed me is that it seemed there were several parallel events going on... (workshops, papers, round tables... concerts, etc...) for every taste or interest!

Usually (at least here in Brasil for instance) the schedule is organized in a way that the events occur not simultaneously, or the events focus on one segment.

I dont know how things happened in the first convention (you guys can tell me though), but I do believe we could do something multidimensional here as well... with barcamps too... sure...

I think that "brazilian PD community" still very immature as a independent group.

Now, I dont think the main goal here is to place the event in some sort of "puredata makkah"... in fact, I see the event as an opportunity to raise the attention to puredata development in Brasil, which is then a great goal of the convention. Otherwise, the event woul be stuck forever in Barcelona, Austria or Canada... not very productive... I do think the idea is to take it to several places... no matter how mature is the thing over there...

By the way... I see here in Brasil a particular academic interest in open source development (linux, etc), and pd is getting a ride on this trend... I cannot point this out for sure... but I believe that we have here a bigger potential and interest on puredata development than in other academic first world centers. The basic reason behind it is simple: "Money" ... and it means that, in some places with no funding issues, they do adopt max or whatever other tool such as matlab... whatever they see as most robust for the objective (but paid for)...

So more than by philosophy, which bases the usage of open source in places where you can adopt it by choice, I see we have here a "need" and no reason ($$$) to choose else that comes before the philosophy of open source. Nevertheless, such philosophy is increasing and getting quite huge, being Brasil a huge country.

I REALLY respect all the guys that develep PD, but I don't want to

suport any show business. I'd prefer to host you in __my home__ than any University (with all respect to intitutions that could support this)

...

what do you mean with show business? tv shows?

I dont know either. But, sincerity for sincerity, I dont like to see this event (apart from its philosophical issues) as some sort of battlefield between fundamentalists ...

Being in the event just now, I didnt feel prejudice in the air at all... (a guy in Miller Puckete's group was using macintosh and Max for christ' s sake) So I see that the event is over this minor details by being in fact OPEN MINDED... Open also for the most diverse as possible as the production related to pd can be... a libertarian event in the best sense and mature enough to consider ad focus on more important issues. (correct me if I am wrong).

By being no fundamentalist at all... I really enjoyed the event, I am no hardcore user or developer, but I was there showing my work I did with pd, and I met people that was interested on what I was doing and I was able to share it with them. Simple as that...

I just came out of a Computer Music Simposyum here (and as I said) people are developing objects, libraries, and choosing pd over whatever because it is free, I have no doubt that there are great work to be shown by "brasileiros" people.

The only issue is just how to raise money to bring the event here... renting equipment for concerts, theaters, space for workshops with computers and internet, give a reasonable amount of money so people can come here from throughout the world... the old same old thing...

I hope to give some feedback on it soon... as I've been saying, there is some goverment interest on supporting this, in Sao Paulo there are more options with places like "Itau Cultural", "Sesc", and also the state universities (music departments and computer departments) that are connected to some funding agencies such as FAPESP and CNPq.

The thing about receive some funding help from foundations in Canada is super :)

The step now is to gather the people who use puredata here.... do some talk on it... arrange some local events, maybe next year, and prepare for an international one...

wow, look at the time... gotta go... cheers

alexandre torres porres

Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org wrote:

I think that the Montreal Pd Convention did a good job of being a community event while still having a academic segment. I think this is the best model for the Pd Convention. I think that a day of a barcamp would be really good too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcamp

.hc

On Sep 5, 2007, at 9:54 AM, glerm soares wrote:

the events could happen one before the other... next SBCM should be in Recife, which is a great beach paradise... ...with sharks!... :D

I appreciate the interest of brazilian academics on this situation. But I think that "brazilian PD community" still very immature as a independent group. As far as I know - We don't have real developers as in Austria, Canada and Barcelona. We have the naif curious and the academics. Most of curious are newbies and most of academics are... hidden behind papers :). I think we have to concentrate more efforts in "realworld" users. To became more envolved in development and exchange MUCH MORE knowledge.

I REALLY respect all the guys that develep PD, but I don't want to suport any show business. I'd prefer to host you in __my home__ than any University (with all respect to intitutions that could support this) - for me the most intersting situation could be something very productive and envolving, much more like a "HACKLAB" than a "Simposium".

And c'mon - Pd on windows? make me laugh. And Sorry the sincerity - Macintoshes are tottaly out of social Brazilian reallity. Here a macintosh notebook is __a price of a car__. Just think about the meaning of this fetish here.

Support free Software, please! Brazil is the linux child - take care of this.

learn portuguese and meet people. brazil is not a postcard.

<learn_portuguese> Galera do brasil e países de lingua portuguesa que usa pd: estamos terminando a tradução dos tutoriais e varios helps do core do pd. temos um servidor subversion a disposição para trocarmos patches.

temos uma lista de discussão em português tambem.

vejam a página no grupo: http://www.estudiolivre.org/tiki-index.php?page=PureDeposito

assinem a lista de discussão.

valeu!

</learn_portuguese>

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glerm soares wrote:

Hi folks. I didn't mean to be the annoying guy, "fundamentalist" or whatever.

what would be the opposite of fundamentalist?

why brazil? and how? why open source?

I just looked up the prize for a MacBook Pro 2.4Ghz 15inch in sao paulo and it was 10612 brazilian real (about 5400$) the same macbook has a regular prize of 2499$ + 200 tax in the US.

the majority of rich people believes: making the rich richer is good for everybody (at least that is how they vote all the time).

the rest believes: helping as many people as possible to live a worthy life is good for everybody.

I think a pd conv in brazil only makes sense, if it is in connection with a knowledge flow and general (financial) flow/support from north to south. it should encourage the local community and their work. like it did in graz and montreal. there should be money from the european community to support the relationship to south american countries.

marius.

On Wed, 2007-09-05 at 21:57 -0400, Thomas O Fredericks wrote:

I am sorry, but in Canada at least:

the rest believes: making the rich richer is good for everybody, JUST IN CASE you might get rich.

funny, it is said, that this is typical swiss attitude... (and this is also what the voting statistics say)

roman

Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

marius schebella marius.schebella@gmail.com wrote: I think a pd conv in brazil only makes sense, if it is in connection with a knowledge flow and general (financial) flow/support from north to south. it should encourage the local community and their work. like it did in graz and montreal. there should be money from the european community to support the relationship to south american countries.

alexandre porres is writting:

Well, I dont know wether there it should be money from north... but Hey, if there is... Wonderful :) Now... where is it? :)

Seriously, the main cost I see is the travel expenses from north to south... maybe, in advance, people could manage this funding help you mention specifically to this purpose. An european budget to make people in Europe travel up here or elsewhere... that makes sense. But then, tell me more about what you mean please...

It should definately encourage the local community and their work. Of course :) is that like something that would justify raising funds? Like some sort of "Foster help" thing?

cheers alex

marius schebella marius.schebella@gmail.com wrote: glerm soares wrote:

Hi folks. I didn't mean to be the annoying guy, "fundamentalist" or whatever.

what would be the opposite of fundamentalist?

why brazil? and how? why open source?

I just looked up the prize for a MacBook Pro 2.4Ghz 15inch in sao paulo and it was 10612 brazilian real (about 5400$) the same macbook has a regular prize of 2499$ + 200 tax in the US.

the majority of rich people believes: making the rich richer is good for everybody (at least that is how they vote all the time).

the rest believes: helping as many people as possible to live a worthy life is good for everybody.

I think a pd conv in brazil only makes sense, if it is in connection with a knowledge flow and general (financial) flow/support from north to south. it should encourage the local community and their work. like it did in graz and montreal. there should be money from the european community to support the relationship to south american countries.

marius.

Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

On Wed, 5 Sep 2007, PORRES wrote:

Sure, what amazed me is that it seemed there were several parallel events going on... (workshops, papers, round tables... concerts, etc...) for every taste or interest! Usually (at least here in Brasil for instance) the schedule is organized in a way that the events occur not simultaneously, or the events focus on one segment.

At both pd conventions there was not much overlap. There was more overlap in the Montréal one because there was more stuff. I don't know whether I'd like the next one to have less stuff in it. Perhaps taking more time like 5 or 6 days would be better. (Not counting the registration, the party and the brunch, the Montréal convention was more like 4 days)

I dont know how things happened in the first convention (you guys can tell me though), but I do believe we could do something multidimensional here as well... with barcamps too... sure...

It's better to organise the schedule so that people organised in one thing aren't likely to be interested in the other thing that happens at the same time, but perhaps it's easy to say and hard to do.

I do think the idea is to take it to several places... no matter how mature is the thing over there...

You don't need to have the developers, you need people who stick together well and who are committed. If you have a "Users Group" with meetings, it can help connecting people together. It doesn't need to be a club with registration nor a not-for-profit company, it just needs people that want to meet other users of pd.

_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada

hey folks, we are having an encounter down here in Brazil about to start now, things are running smoothly, we now consider it actually an international encounter with the presence of Alexandre Castonguay & Mathieu Bouchard here in Sao paulo, and now, because we are opening a channel for other people on the worldwide comunity connect and check on it.

The 1st Encontro Internacional Puredata Brasil (Iº EIPdBr 1-5 May) has invited Miller to speak on the current state of PureData, it’s development and community as well as what hopes he holds for it and the challenges that stand in the way of their realization. One of the aims of the meeting is the discussion of the viability of a future PureData convention in Brazil.

The talk will be streamed via the Global Independent Streaming Support (giss) and questions and discussions arising from the talk can happen on the #dataflow channel.

http://giss.tv/eipdbr.ogg

irc.freenode.net #dataflow

It is scheduled to start at: 7pm GMT 01/05/2008

cheers Alexandre Torres Porres & Alexandre Castonguay

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