Its been a while since pd~conf and I think we are long overdue for
another. I have recently started a job at Polytechnic University in
downtown Brooklyn (http://poly.edu I work at http://idmi.poly.edu ),
and I can host conferences here for free, and the dorms are available
for US$35/night when the students are out of session. This place has
a lot to offer in terms of facilities: a 350 seat auditorium, lecture
halls, a big plaza for art projects, a 9-screen/9-computer hall with
multi-channel sound where we are currently developing software so
that it can be used as one OpenGL space, one video screen, or a 9-
screen laptop jam.
The problem in the U.S. is that there are very few grants for this
kind of thing, so it would probably be hard to get grants to fund
everyone's travel and hotels like the IEM folks did so amazingly.
The standard way that conferences fund themselves in the U.S. is by
charging a conference fee. Since this is about free software, it
would be nice to have the conference free too.
Let's start the process now and get some ideas flowing, and maybe we
can come up with something.
.hc
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Its been a while since pd~conf and I think we are long overdue for another. I have recently started a job at Polytechnic University in downtown Brooklyn (http://poly.edu I work at http://idmi.poly.edu ), and I can host conferences here for free, and the dorms are available for US$35/night when the students are out of session. This place has a lot to offer in terms of facilities: a 350 seat auditorium, lecture halls, a big plaza for art projects, a 9-screen/9-computer hall with multi-channel sound where we are currently developing software so that it can be used as one OpenGL space, one video screen, or a 9- screen laptop jam.
The problem in the U.S. is that there are very few grants for this kind of thing, so it would probably be hard to get grants to fund everyone's travel and hotels like the IEM folks did so amazingly. The standard way that conferences fund themselves in the U.S. is by charging a conference fee. Since this is about free software, it would be nice to have the conference free too.
Let's start the process now and get some ideas flowing, and maybe we can come up with something.
Hi,
Great initiative, my proposal for funding is the one I already expressed in our discussion about donations. We get a bank account and a "Donate" button on the puredata web site.
Maybe we should calculate the costs for such an event in advance and when we are about to reach the amount, we organize a conference.
Although this model didn't find much appreciation back then, I still think it is a fair use of the collected money on a project where so many individuals are involved.
I know that you didn't like this idea, but I have no experience in fund raising, so collecting donations is the only thing that comes to my mind right now.
Günter
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, geiger wrote:
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Its been a while since pd~conf and I think we are long overdue for another. I have recently started a job at Polytechnic University in downtown Brooklyn (http://poly.edu I work at http://idmi.poly.edu ), and I can host conferences here for free, and the dorms are available for US$35/night when the students are out of session. This place has a lot to offer in terms of facilities: a 350 seat auditorium, lecture halls, a big plaza for art projects, a 9-screen/9-computer hall with multi-channel sound where we are currently developing software so that it can be used as one OpenGL space, one video screen, or a 9- screen laptop jam.
The problem in the U.S. is that there are very few grants for this kind of thing, so it would probably be hard to get grants to fund everyone's travel and hotels like the IEM folks did so amazingly. The standard way that conferences fund themselves in the U.S. is by charging a conference fee. Since this is about free software, it would be nice to have the conference free too.
Let's start the process now and get some ideas flowing, and maybe we can come up with something.
Hi,
Great initiative, my proposal for funding is the one I already expressed in our discussion about donations. We get a bank account and a "Donate" button on the puredata web site.
Maybe we should calculate the costs for such an event in advance and when we are about to reach the amount, we organize a conference.
Although this model didn't find much appreciation back then, I still think it is a fair use of the collected money on a project where so many individuals are involved.
I know that you didn't like this idea, but I have no experience in fund raising, so collecting donations is the only thing that comes to my mind right now.
I think this is a great idea, we just need to discuss how to handle it. That's the tricky part. This could make it easy, we could just say that all funds donated to Pd go to running the pd~conf. Then we don't have to figure out how to make more fine grained decisions as a group (tough thing to do...). Then it doesn't really matter where the group is based.
So its sounds like a Verein is very easy to start in Austria and Germany, does it provide tax-free status? The next question is whether we can use tax-free money from the EU to fund a conference outside of the EU without paying taxes.
Another approach is to have who ever is planning the next pd~conf take control of the donations under the guise of whatever organization that they are working for. I know Alexandre has talked about hosting pd~conf at artengine in Ottawa, CA. They have non-profit status, so they could accept donations tax-free (AFAIK). As for Brooklyn, I could do it as part of Polytechnic University if that gives us tax-free status, or another arts org that am affiliated with in NYC (there are a couple).
Then the last thing is, I don't think we are really going to get so many donations. I've had my donate button up for years and I think I've received around US$250 in total.
.hc
zen
\
\
\[D[D[D[D
I think in general, the best place to look is foundations with local roots. I've had the idea for a while to get the Langlois Foundation to underwrite a pd-conf in Montreal. I don't know of any locally-focussed foundations in New York but I bet they exist... (something like Rockefeller probably wouldn't jump for this since they don't focus on local events around New York as far as I know.)
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 08:10:16AM -0800, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, geiger wrote:
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Its been a while since pd~conf and I think we are long overdue for another. I have recently started a job at Polytechnic University in downtown Brooklyn (http://poly.edu I work at http://idmi.poly.edu ), and I can host conferences here for free, and the dorms are available for US$35/night when the students are out of session. This place has a lot to offer in terms of facilities: a 350 seat auditorium, lecture halls, a big plaza for art projects, a 9-screen/9-computer hall with multi-channel sound where we are currently developing software so that it can be used as one OpenGL space, one video screen, or a 9- screen laptop jam.
The problem in the U.S. is that there are very few grants for this kind of thing, so it would probably be hard to get grants to fund everyone's travel and hotels like the IEM folks did so amazingly. The standard way that conferences fund themselves in the U.S. is by charging a conference fee. Since this is about free software, it would be nice to have the conference free too.
Let's start the process now and get some ideas flowing, and maybe we can come up with something.
Hi,
Great initiative, my proposal for funding is the one I already expressed in our discussion about donations. We get a bank account and a "Donate" button on the puredata web site.
Maybe we should calculate the costs for such an event in advance and when we are about to reach the amount, we organize a conference.
Although this model didn't find much appreciation back then, I still think it is a fair use of the collected money on a project where so many individuals are involved.
I know that you didn't like this idea, but I have no experience in fund raising, so collecting donations is the only thing that comes to my mind right now.
I think this is a great idea, we just need to discuss how to handle it. That's the tricky part. This could make it easy, we could just say that all funds donated to Pd go to running the pd~conf. Then we don't have to figure out how to make more fine grained decisions as a group (tough thing to do...). Then it doesn't really matter where the group is based.
So its sounds like a Verein is very easy to start in Austria and Germany, does it provide tax-free status? The next question is whether we can use tax-free money from the EU to fund a conference outside of the EU without paying taxes.
Another approach is to have who ever is planning the next pd~conf take control of the donations under the guise of whatever organization that they are working for. I know Alexandre has talked about hosting pd~conf at artengine in Ottawa, CA. They have non-profit status, so they could accept donations tax-free (AFAIK). As for Brooklyn, I could do it as part of Polytechnic University if that gives us tax-free status, or another arts org that am affiliated with in NYC (there are a couple).
Then the last thing is, I don't think we are really going to get so many donations. I've had my donate button up for years and I think I've received around US$250 in total.
.hc
zen
\[D[D[D[D
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On Mar 24, 2006, at 11:15 AM, Miller Puckette wrote:
I think in general, the best place to look is foundations with
local roots. I've had the idea for a while to get the Langlois Foundation to
underwrite a pd-conf in Montreal. I don't know of any locally-focussed
foundations in New York but I bet they exist... (something like Rockefeller
probably wouldn't jump for this since they don't focus on local events
around New York as far as I know.)
and then perhaps for the application look to build a group of
sponsors who contribute in-kind support.
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 08:10:16AM -0800, Hans-Christoph Steiner
wrote:On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, geiger wrote:
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Its been a while since pd~conf and I think we are long overdue for another. I have recently started a job at Polytechnic
University in downtown Brooklyn (http://poly.edu I work at http:// idmi.poly.edu ), and I can host conferences here for free, and the dorms are
available for US$35/night when the students are out of session. This
place has a lot to offer in terms of facilities: a 350 seat auditorium,
lecture halls, a big plaza for art projects, a 9-screen/9-computer hall
with multi-channel sound where we are currently developing software so that it can be used as one OpenGL space, one video screen, or a 9- screen laptop jam.The problem in the U.S. is that there are very few grants for this kind of thing, so it would probably be hard to get grants to fund everyone's travel and hotels like the IEM folks did so amazingly. The standard way that conferences fund themselves in the U.S. is by charging a conference fee. Since this is about free software, it would be nice to have the conference free too.
Let's start the process now and get some ideas flowing, and
maybe we can come up with something.Hi,
Great initiative, my proposal for funding is the one I already
expressed in our discussion about donations. We get a bank account and a "Donate" button on the puredata web site.Maybe we should calculate the costs for such an event in advance and when we are about to reach the amount, we organize a conference.
Although this model didn't find much appreciation back then, I still think it is a fair use of the collected money on a project where so many individuals are involved.
I know that you didn't like this idea, but I have no experience
in fund raising, so collecting donations is the only thing that comes to my mind right now.I think this is a great idea, we just need to discuss how to
handle it. That's the tricky part. This could make it easy, we could just
say that all funds donated to Pd go to running the pd~conf. Then we don't
have to figure out how to make more fine grained decisions as a group
(tough thing to do...). Then it doesn't really matter where the group is based.So its sounds like a Verein is very easy to start in Austria and
Germany, does it provide tax-free status? The next question is whether we
can use tax-free money from the EU to fund a conference outside of the EU
without paying taxes.Another approach is to have who ever is planning the next pd~conf
take control of the donations under the guise of whatever organization
that they are working for. I know Alexandre has talked about hosting
pd~conf at artengine in Ottawa, CA. They have non-profit status, so they
could accept donations tax-free (AFAIK). As for Brooklyn, I could do it
as part of Polytechnic University if that gives us tax-free status, or
another arts org that am affiliated with in NYC (there are a couple).Then the last thing is, I don't think we are really going to get
so many donations. I've had my donate button up for years and I think I've received around US$250 in total..hc
zen
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PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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In New York, there is http://NYSCA.org and http://NYFA.org, which are
NY only. Not big bucks like Langlois, but some money. Rockefeller
does fund in NYC and has an specific interest in the region, judging
by this:
http://www.rockfound.org/ArtsAndCulture/Announcement/127
Both Rockefeller and Langlois seem to have moved their focus to
outside of Western Europe and the U.S. Langlois says they'll still
fund in Canada since that's their homebase. We talked to Langlois
about funding PDDP, and they weren't interested, so them funding
pd~conf doesn't sound so likely. It would be worth calling them
tho. We could maybe get funds from Rockefeller or Langlois to fund
bringing people from Asia, Africa, and South America. Something to
float by them.
On the money front, it turns out that Poly has a "multi-disciplinary
event fund" that it would probably be relatively easy to get US
$5-10,000, no more tho. But it would be good seed money.
.hc
On Mar 24, 2006, at 11:15 AM, Miller Puckette wrote:
I think in general, the best place to look is foundations with
local roots. I've had the idea for a while to get the Langlois Foundation to
underwrite a pd-conf in Montreal. I don't know of any locally-focussed
foundations in New York but I bet they exist... (something like Rockefeller
probably wouldn't jump for this since they don't focus on local events
around New York as far as I know.)On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 08:10:16AM -0800, Hans-Christoph Steiner
wrote:On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, geiger wrote:
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Its been a while since pd~conf and I think we are long overdue for another. I have recently started a job at Polytechnic
University in downtown Brooklyn (http://poly.edu I work at http:// idmi.poly.edu ), and I can host conferences here for free, and the dorms are
available for US$35/night when the students are out of session. This
place has a lot to offer in terms of facilities: a 350 seat auditorium,
lecture halls, a big plaza for art projects, a 9-screen/9-computer hall
with multi-channel sound where we are currently developing software so that it can be used as one OpenGL space, one video screen, or a 9- screen laptop jam.The problem in the U.S. is that there are very few grants for this kind of thing, so it would probably be hard to get grants to fund everyone's travel and hotels like the IEM folks did so amazingly. The standard way that conferences fund themselves in the U.S. is by charging a conference fee. Since this is about free software, it would be nice to have the conference free too.
Let's start the process now and get some ideas flowing, and
maybe we can come up with something.Hi,
Great initiative, my proposal for funding is the one I already
expressed in our discussion about donations. We get a bank account and a "Donate" button on the puredata web site.Maybe we should calculate the costs for such an event in advance and when we are about to reach the amount, we organize a conference.
Although this model didn't find much appreciation back then, I still think it is a fair use of the collected money on a project where so many individuals are involved.
I know that you didn't like this idea, but I have no experience
in fund raising, so collecting donations is the only thing that comes to my mind right now.I think this is a great idea, we just need to discuss how to
handle it. That's the tricky part. This could make it easy, we could just
say that all funds donated to Pd go to running the pd~conf. Then we don't
have to figure out how to make more fine grained decisions as a group
(tough thing to do...). Then it doesn't really matter where the group is based.So its sounds like a Verein is very easy to start in Austria and
Germany, does it provide tax-free status? The next question is whether we
can use tax-free money from the EU to fund a conference outside of the EU
without paying taxes.Another approach is to have who ever is planning the next pd~conf
take control of the donations under the guise of whatever organization
that they are working for. I know Alexandre has talked about hosting
pd~conf at artengine in Ottawa, CA. They have non-profit status, so they
could accept donations tax-free (AFAIK). As for Brooklyn, I could do it
as part of Polytechnic University if that gives us tax-free status, or
another arts org that am affiliated with in NYC (there are a couple).Then the last thing is, I don't think we are really going to get
so many donations. I've had my donate button up for years and I think I've received around US$250 in total..hc
zen
\[D[D[D[D
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido!
Le Vendredi 24 Mars 2006 11:15, Miller Puckette a écrit :
I think in general, the best place to look is foundations with local roots. I've had the idea for a while to get the Langlois Foundation to underwrite a pd-conf in Montreal. I don't know of any locally-focussed foundations in New York but I bet they exist... (something like Rockefeller probably wouldn't jump for this since they don't focus on local events around New York as far as I know.)
The logical location for the conference in Canada would be Montreal. Artengine would sponsor some events over there. I have had informal contacts with Concordia University and two artist-run centres who were supportive.
The online donations idea is good and not that hard to set up. Artengine has charitable status and as such, our books are audited. Donations from Canada could certainly be channeled by us. As Hans-Christoph points out, the income from that source can be limited so applying to Foundations and public granting bodies is going to be necessary.
This requires time as the organizations need to write the pd~conf in their grant request. I believe that the Daniel Langlois Foundation accepts funding requests year-long from organizations but the next funding round for at the Canada Council is October 2006 so holding the pd~conf in 2007 would be necessary. It may be a while to wait but that way we can expect to fund the travel for many participants as well as put on shows throughout the city (Graz and the IEM have set high standards :-).
Cheers,
Alexandre
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 08:10:16AM -0800, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, geiger wrote:
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Its been a while since pd~conf and I think we are long overdue for another. I have recently started a job at Polytechnic University in downtown Brooklyn (http://poly.edu I work at http://idmi.poly.edu ), and I can host conferences here for free, and the dorms are available for US$35/night when the students are out of session. This place has a lot to offer in terms of facilities: a 350 seat auditorium, lecture halls, a big plaza for art projects, a 9-screen/9-computer hall with multi-channel sound where we are currently developing software so that it can be used as one OpenGL space, one video screen, or a 9- screen laptop jam.
The problem in the U.S. is that there are very few grants for this kind of thing, so it would probably be hard to get grants to fund everyone's travel and hotels like the IEM folks did so amazingly. The standard way that conferences fund themselves in the U.S. is by charging a conference fee. Since this is about free software, it would be nice to have the conference free too.
Let's start the process now and get some ideas flowing, and maybe we can come up with something.
Hi,
Great initiative, my proposal for funding is the one I already expressed in our discussion about donations. We get a bank account and a "Donate" button on the puredata web site.
Maybe we should calculate the costs for such an event in advance and when we are about to reach the amount, we organize a conference.
Although this model didn't find much appreciation back then, I still think it is a fair use of the collected money on a project where so many individuals are involved.
I know that you didn't like this idea, but I have no experience in fund raising, so collecting donations is the only thing that comes to my mind right now.
I think this is a great idea, we just need to discuss how to handle it. That's the tricky part. This could make it easy, we could just say that all funds donated to Pd go to running the pd~conf. Then we don't have to figure out how to make more fine grained decisions as a group (tough thing to do...). Then it doesn't really matter where the group is based.
So its sounds like a Verein is very easy to start in Austria and Germany, does it provide tax-free status? The next question is whether we can use tax-free money from the EU to fund a conference outside of the EU without paying taxes.
Another approach is to have who ever is planning the next pd~conf take control of the donations under the guise of whatever organization that they are working for. I know Alexandre has talked about hosting pd~conf at artengine in Ottawa, CA. They have non-profit status, so they could accept donations tax-free (AFAIK). As for Brooklyn, I could do it as part of Polytechnic University if that gives us tax-free status, or another arts org that am affiliated with in NYC (there are a couple).
Then the last thing is, I don't think we are really going to get so many donations. I've had my donate button up for years and I think I've received around US$250 in total.
.hc
zen
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Le 24 Mars 2006 11:15, Miller Puckette a écrit :
I think in general, the best place to look is foundations with local roots. I've had the idea for a while to get the Langlois Foundation to underwrite a pd-conf in Montreal. I don't know of any locally-focussed foundations in New York but I bet they exist... (something like Rockefeller probably wouldn't jump for this since they don't focus on local events around New York as far as I know.)
The Langlois Foundation is not specifically founding local organisations or initiatives, its mandate is international.
Excerpt from its (flashy) web site: "Through this program, the Foundation seeks to support the projects of organisations in its priority regions outside the European Union and North America, with the exception of Canada and Mexico. To be certain, please check that the name of your country is listed among those recognized by the Foundation. Generally, the Foundation supports projects that allow artists, researchers and scholars to develop their knowledge and expertise locally in their own regions."
-- Marc
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Another approach is to have who ever is planning the next pd~conf take control of the donations under the guise of whatever organization that they are working for. I know Alexandre has talked about hosting pd~conf at artengine in Ottawa, CA. They have non-profit status, so they could accept donations tax-free (AFAIK). As for Brooklyn, I could do it as part of Polytechnic University if that gives us tax-free status, or another arts org that am affiliated with in NYC (there are a couple).
I think this would be the way to go.
Then the last thing is, I don't think we are really going to get so many donations. I've had my donate button up for years and I think I've received around US$250 in total.
This might be a real problem. It would be sort of an experiment. I think it has chances to succeed, because you can be fully transparent. Everyone knows what the money is used for, you can setup a webpage with the donations, how far away we are from the goal, etc.
Maybe it can be combined with other fundings, which in this case would be donations too.
But don't know, as I said, not realy experienced in this matter.
Günter
.hc
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On Mar 24, 2006, at 12:50 PM, geiger wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Another approach is to have who ever is planning the next pd~conf
take control of the donations under the guise of whatever organization
that they are working for. I know Alexandre has talked about hosting
pd~conf at artengine in Ottawa, CA. They have non-profit status, so they
could accept donations tax-free (AFAIK). As for Brooklyn, I could do it
as part of Polytechnic University if that gives us tax-free status, or
another arts org that am affiliated with in NYC (there are a couple).I think this would be the way to go.
Then the last thing is, I don't think we are really going to get
so many donations. I've had my donate button up for years and I think I've received around US$250 in total.This might be a real problem. It would be sort of an experiment. I think it has chances to succeed, because you can be fully
transparent. Everyone knows what the money is used for, you can setup a webpage with the donations, how far away we are from the goal, etc.Maybe it can be combined with other fundings, which in this case would be donations too.
But don't know, as I said, not realy experienced in this matter.
This sounds like a workable solution that we can start doing now. Is
anyone opposed to setting up a page on puredata.org now and starting
to collect money expressly for pd~conf? We should probably make a
proposal in a new thread.
.hc
"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are
deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from
scarcity."
-John Gilmore
Hi Hans-Christoph and List,
Thinking out loud....
What about a proposal to NYSCA?
I think that Experimental TV Center has funds too - either of their
own or through NYSCA.
So far my experience has only been in proposals for individuals but I
think there's more funding available for organizations.
Other ideas - sponsors like Harvest Works or Eyebeam. Think they might contribute?
Best, p
On Mar 24, 2006, at 12:50 PM, geiger wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Another approach is to have who ever is planning the next pd~conf
take control of the donations under the guise of whatever organization
that they are working for. I know Alexandre has talked about hosting
pd~conf at artengine in Ottawa, CA. They have non-profit status, so they
could accept donations tax-free (AFAIK). As for Brooklyn, I could do it
as part of Polytechnic University if that gives us tax-free status, or
another arts org that am affiliated with in NYC (there are a couple).I think this would be the way to go.
Then the last thing is, I don't think we are really going to get
so many donations. I've had my donate button up for years and I think I've received around US$250 in total.This might be a real problem. It would be sort of an experiment. I think it has chances to succeed, because you can be fully
transparent. Everyone knows what the money is used for, you can setup a webpage with the donations, how far away we are from the goal, etc.Maybe it can be combined with other fundings, which in this case would be donations too.
But don't know, as I said, not realy experienced in this matter.
Günter
.hc
zen
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On Mar 24, 2006, at 1:17 PM, Paris Treantafeles wrote:
Hi Hans-Christoph and List,
Thinking out loud....
What about a proposal to NYSCA?
This is a candidate for sure.
I think that Experimental TV Center has funds too - either of their
own or through NYSCA.
Experiment TV Center gives out very small grants AFAIK. But the more
the merrier, right?
So far my experience has only been in proposals for individuals but
I think there's more funding available for organizations.Other ideas - sponsors like Harvest Works or Eyebeam. Think they might contribute?
They don't really have funds to contribute, they are always grant
seekers for the most part. But they would be good orgs to have on
board, and I think they would be if we asked (I'm teaching Pd at
Harvestworks starting Wed. and Eyebeam expressed interest in Pd stuff
as well).
.hc
Best, p
On Mar 24, 2006, at 12:50 PM, geiger wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Another approach is to have who ever is planning the next pd~conf
take control of the donations under the guise of whatever organization
that they are working for. I know Alexandre has talked about hosting
pd~conf at artengine in Ottawa, CA. They have non-profit status, so they
could accept donations tax-free (AFAIK). As for Brooklyn, I could do
it as part of Polytechnic University if that gives us tax-free status, or
another arts org that am affiliated with in NYC (there are a couple).I think this would be the way to go.
Then the last thing is, I don't think we are really going to get
so many donations. I've had my donate button up for years and I think I've received around US$250 in total.This might be a real problem. It would be sort of an experiment. I think it has chances to succeed, because you can be fully
transparent. Everyone knows what the money is used for, you can setup a webpage with the donations, how far away we are from the goal, etc.Maybe it can be combined with other fundings, which in this case
would be donations too.But don't know, as I said, not realy experienced in this matter.
Günter
.hc
zen
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Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to
realize his wishes.
Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish.
-William Carlos
Williams
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Another approach is to have who ever is planning the next pd~conf take control of the donations under the guise of whatever organization that they are working for. I know Alexandre has talked about hosting pd~conf at artengine in Ottawa, CA.
I don't think he was serious about that =) Ottawa, ON is too "small" for such a thing, and I'm including Gatineau, QC, across the bridge. I mean "small" as in not enough Pd users. Ottawa and Gatineau together might be one million people, but if you try to find Pd users, you only find them at Ottawa U or Artengine.
I have strong doubts about being able to do it in Montréal, QC, even though there are several organisms that are involved in Pd stuff currently (Vidéographe, SAT, StudioXX).
I think Montréal is still not ready for such an event, if it has to be a reasonable sequel to PdConvention04.
Right now I'd like to hear _why_ another Pd Convention should happen. Well, I mean, apart from being _damn_ _fun_...
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
On Mar 24, 2006, at 10:24 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Another approach is to have who ever is planning the next pd~conf
take control of the donations under the guise of whatever organization
that they are working for. I know Alexandre has talked about hosting
pd~conf at artengine in Ottawa, CA.I don't think he was serious about that =) Ottawa, ON is too
"small" for such a thing, and I'm including Gatineau, QC, across the bridge. I
mean "small" as in not enough Pd users. Ottawa and Gatineau together
might be one million people, but if you try to find Pd users, you only find
them at Ottawa U or Artengine.
Graz is 350,000, and it worked there. I don't think that would be
such an issue. Plus there are a lot of people who live near enough
Ottawa.
I have strong doubts about being able to do it in Montréal, QC, even though there are several organisms that are involved in Pd stuff
currently (Vidéographe, SAT, StudioXX).I think Montréal is still not ready for such an event, if it has to
be a reasonable sequel to PdConvention04.
Why not.
Right now I'd like to hear _why_ another Pd Convention should happen. Well, I mean, apart from being _damn_ _fun_...
To me, that's not really a question that needs to be asked, but I'll
answer it. So much can get accomplished in 10 minutes of face-to-
face discussion that would take days on the list. Plus its great
because we can all set aside a time to just listen to what everyone
is doing with Pd an focus on that.
Pd~conf 1.0 was drinking from the fire hose in an amazing way. In
our daily lives, we tend to be stuck in narrow circles, which a
narrow range of ideas that we come across. Pd~conf 1 covered such a
broad range, it took me in many directions I would never have gone
had I not attended.
.hc
"Information wants to be free." -Stewart Brand
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Mar 24, 2006, at 10:24 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
I don't think he was serious about that =) Ottawa, ON is too "small" for such a thing, and I'm including Gatineau, QC, across the bridge. I mean "small" as in not enough Pd users. Ottawa and Gatineau together might be one million people, but if you try to find Pd users, you only find them at Ottawa U or Artengine.
Graz is 350,000, and it worked there. I don't think that would be such an issue. Plus there are a lot of people who live near enough Ottawa.
Reread what I said, I said "small" as in not enough Pd users. If I can't say "Ottawa is too small" let me say "Ottawa does not have enough Pd users".
BTW, Graz is 240,000 people, according to Wikipedia.
But those figures mean little. I have a copy of "aktuelle Kunst in Graz" (a paper publication associated to http://www.graz03.at/). It makes Graz look very big, possibly as big as Montréal, given the number of entries in that booklet.
I think Montréal is still not ready for such an event, if it has to be a reasonable sequel to PdConvention04.
Why not.
Funding?
Actually, I know people who want to try for 2007 (or who say they want to try...). This is a topic for the 20th PureData Montréal Users Group meeting, which will be on May 14, just after the Holzer&Kolster PMPD Workshop in Montréal (they are doing the same workshop in Ottawa this weekend).
Right now I'd like to hear _why_ another Pd Convention should happen. Well, I mean, apart from being _damn_ _fun_...
To me, that's not really a question that needs to be asked, but I'll answer it. So much can get accomplished in 10 minutes of face-to-face discussion that would take days on the list.
Why is the mailing-list so inefficient? What can be done to improve the mailing-list? Are there affective issues? If so, we might need a Simple Hug Transfer Protocol.
The reason why I ask why is so that we can answer the question of what the programme should look like. Let's not assume that the programme has to have the same format as the original. But to know what to put in the programme we should know our goals for the conference (in terms of fostering further development of the community and such), and to know our goals we need to know why we're making a second conference... well, apart from having a damn lot of fun, and the desire to outshine Graz or something... ;-)
Pd~conf 1 covered such a broad range, it took me in many directions I would never have gone had I not attended.
Could you please explain that experience? What were your new directions?
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
On May 7, 2006, at 9:53 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Mar 24, 2006, at 10:24 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
I don't think he was serious about that =) Ottawa, ON is too
"small" for such a thing, and I'm including Gatineau, QC, across the bridge.
I mean "small" as in not enough Pd users. Ottawa and Gatineau together
might be one million people, but if you try to find Pd users, you only
find them at Ottawa U or Artengine.Graz is 350,000, and it worked there. I don't think that would be
such an issue. Plus there are a lot of people who live near enough Ottawa.Reread what I said, I said "small" as in not enough Pd users. If I can't say "Ottawa is too small" let me say "Ottawa does not have
enough Pd users".BTW, Graz is 240,000 people, according to Wikipedia.
But those figures mean little. I have a copy of "aktuelle Kunst in
Graz" (a paper publication associated to http://www.graz03.at/). It makes
Graz look very big, possibly as big as Montréal, given the number of
entries in that booklet.I think Montréal is still not ready for such an event, if it has
to be a reasonable sequel to PdConvention04.Why not.
Funding?
Actually, I know people who want to try for 2007 (or who say they
want to try...). This is a topic for the 20th PureData Montréal Users Group meeting, which will be on May 14, just after the Holzer&Kolster PMPD Workshop in Montréal (they are doing the same workshop in Ottawa this weekend).
To do PdConf07, the wheels need to start rolling now. I don't want
to step on any toes, that's why I started this thread on the list,
but some basic wheels have started in motion for doing Pd~conf in NYC
for Summer 07. So if there is a crew ready to do it in Montreal for
07, then we should work this out now.
Right now I'd like to hear _why_ another Pd Convention should
happen. Well, I mean, apart from being _damn_ _fun_...To me, that's not really a question that needs to be asked, but
I'll answer it. So much can get accomplished in 10 minutes of face-to-face
discussion that would take days on the list.Why is the mailing-list so inefficient? What can be done to improve
the mailing-list? Are there affective issues? If so, we might need a
Simple Hug Transfer Protocol.The reason why I ask why is so that we can answer the question of
what the programme should look like. Let's not assume that the programme has to have the same format as the original. But to know what to put in the programme we should know our goals for the conference (in terms of fostering further development of the community and such), and to
know our goals we need to know why we're making a second conference... well,
apart from having a damn lot of fun, and the desire to outshine Graz or something... ;-)Pd~conf 1 covered such a broad range, it took me in many directions I would never have gone had I not attended.
Could you please explain that experience? What were your new
directions?
The first thing that comes to mind is thinking about how to best
organize the labor of many developers. That planted the seeds for
namespaces and Pd-extended. Now, I don't think that we should try to
create some simple language like Max/MSP, but instead should make Pd
an framework that makes it easy to organize the work of many people.
.hc
"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an
idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps
it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into
the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess
himself of it."
- Thomas
Jefferson
On Sun, 7 May 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On May 7, 2006, at 9:53 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
Actually, I know people who want to try for 2007 (or who say they want to try...). This is a topic for the 20th PureData Montréal Users Group meeting, which will be on May 14, just after the Holzer&Kolster PMPD Workshop in Montréal (they are doing the same workshop in Ottawa this weekend).
D'oh, I just realized that there is no PMPD content at all in their workshop. I was confused because I attended some committee meetings that referred to it as the PMPD workshop. That's really sad because PMPD is one of the coolest things in the Pd world and it's something that I think artists would really love. The PMPD performance by the Henry bros at Pd~conv'04 was the most impressive thing that I've seen during the Convention.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
On Sun, May 07, 2006 at 03:53:53AM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Mar 24, 2006, at 10:24 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
Right now I'd like to hear _why_ another Pd Convention should happen. Well, I mean, apart from being _damn_ _fun_...
To me, that's not really a question that needs to be asked, but I'll answer it. So much can get accomplished in 10 minutes of face-to-face discussion that would take days on the list.
Why is the mailing-list so inefficient? What can be done to improve the mailing-list? Are there affective issues? If so, we might need a Simple Hug Transfer Protocol.
Don't you find that you learn a lot at conferences? I reckon that there is no better search engine than asking a question of an expert, face to face. This is simply because of the bandwidth involved. The speed at which you can hone your request using conversation, body language, etc, is much more efficient than IRC, mailing lists, or any other computer based communications medium that we currently use. The mailing list is fine, just suboptimal when compared with direct human interaction.
Chris.
chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx
On Mon, 8 May 2006, Chris McCormick wrote:
On Sun, May 07, 2006 at 03:53:53AM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
Why is the mailing-list so inefficient? What can be done to improve the mailing-list? Are there affective issues? If so, we might need a Simple Hug Transfer Protocol.
Don't you find that you learn a lot at conferences? I reckon that there is no better search engine than asking a question of an expert, face to face.
If this were really the case, teleconferences would be the super craze just about right now. But anyway: I'm not arguing that conferences are useless, and even if people really learn a lot more at conferences, it doesn't mean that mailing-list interaction can't be improved. So do you have suggestions for more efficient mailing-list interactions?
How about a non-verbal markup language? (Isn't the niche that smileys were made to fill?)
This is simply because of the bandwidth involved. The speed at which you can hone your request using conversation, body language, etc, is much more efficient than IRC, mailing lists, or any other computer based communications medium that we currently use.
How do you say "Intel/AMD isn't going to abandon SSE any day now and it's not an excuse that you can give to me" using bodylanguage in a way that my interlocutor will understand that he can't BS me on this? Cause if bodylanguage can't do that for me, then I don't think it's so great ;-)
And when I say "bodylanguage", I consider that grabbing someone by the necktie is sort of cheating.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 12:02:57AM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Mon, 8 May 2006, Chris McCormick wrote:
On Sun, May 07, 2006 at 03:53:53AM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
Why is the mailing-list so inefficient? What can be done to improve the mailing-list? Are there affective issues? If so, we might need a Simple Hug Transfer Protocol.
Don't you find that you learn a lot at conferences? I reckon that there is no better search engine than asking a question of an expert, face to face.
If this were really the case, teleconferences would be the super craze just about right now. But anyway: I'm not arguing that conferences are
Teleconferencing doesn't have an established pattern of usage in the same way that conferences do. There is lots of different software and the set up is often complicated. One must agree on protocols, and have the right hardware, bandwidth etc. etc. Add to this the fact that most people are busy, and don't have a lot of time to teleconference with just anyone, and you have the solution as to why teleconferences aren't the super craze.
[Normal]conferencing fills the gap. Experts make time for conferences whilst they might not make time to talk to someone personally. Maybe you have had different experiences, but being able to speak to famous hackers and artists about their software and techniques in person has always been way more valuable to me in terms of information gained per unit effort, than emailing them.
Besides, it's much more pleasurable.
useless, and even if people really learn a lot more at conferences, it doesn't mean that mailing-list interaction can't be improved. So do you have suggestions for more efficient mailing-list interactions?
No, sorry. I think mailing-list interactions are fine for what we use them for. In any case they're something that evolve and are not engineered explicitly, so even if we came up with efficient mailing list interaction protocols, probably nobody would follow them unless they were particularly fun or compelling. That said, you are welcome to try - I am not disrespecting your idea at all, I just don't have anything useful to contribute to it.
How about a non-verbal markup language? (Isn't the niche that smileys were made to fill?)
I guess it could work - smileys do. Sometimes reading tags like "<irony>" ruins the irony though. Maybe that's a good thing because it makes us all talk as directly as possible in order to minimise confusion. What are your thoughts on a non verbal markup language aside from emoticons?
This is simply because of the bandwidth involved. The speed at which you can hone your request using conversation, body language, etc, is much more efficient than IRC, mailing lists, or any other computer based communications medium that we currently use.
How do you say "Intel/AMD isn't going to abandon SSE any day now and it's not an excuse that you can give to me" using bodylanguage in a way that my interlocutor will understand that he can't BS me on this? Cause if bodylanguage can't do that for me, then I don't think it's so great ;-)
I find it's more useful to ask questions than direct statements at people who know more than me. In my experience body language occurs subconciously to indicate a non-hostile attitude which puts the other person's mind into a relaxed state and makes them more likely to provide you with useful information. For example, saying "your opinion is totally flawed, professor." with a quirky smile on your face is a bit different than saying it with a creased forehead and an angry confrontational face. Same thing with voice intonations as in the case of sarcasm. Because we all know how super easy it is to detect sarcasm in email. ;)
And when I say "bodylanguage", I consider that grabbing someone by the necktie is sort of cheating.
Heh!
Best,
Chris.
chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx
I read:
So its sounds like a Verein is very easy to start in Austria and Germany,
rather easy yes.
does it provide tax-free status?
no it's really hard to get that status, but since most "vereins" don't make money there is no tax, it's more about tax deductable donations.
The next question is whether we can use tax-free money from the EU to fund a conference outside of the EU without paying taxes.
can't see why not
cheers,
x
On Mar 26, 2006, at 1:59 PM, CK wrote:
I read:
So its sounds like a Verein is very easy to start in Austria and
Germany,rather easy yes.
does it provide tax-free status?
no it's really hard to get that status, but since most "vereins"
don't make money there is no tax, it's more about tax deductable donations.
So if a Verein receives donations, does the Verein have to pay taxes
on those donations? That makes it much less attractive if it does
have to pay taxes. A 501(c)3 non-profit org in the U.S. pays no
taxes, no matter how they get the money. I think Canada has
something that is the exact same, and artengine has that status.
The next question is whether we can use tax-free money from the EU to fund a conference outside of the EU
without paying taxes.can't see why not
If a Verein doesn't have to pay taxes, and the money is given to
another org like artengine which does not have to pay taxes, then the
only thing left to worry about is whether there is any tax on
donations leaving Austria/Germany/EU. Tax law is so arcane and
convoluted (esp. in the U.S.), you never know.
.hc
Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli
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geiger -
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Hans-Christoph Steiner -
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Mathieu Bouchard -
Miller Puckette -
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