Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Pagano, Patrick <pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edumailto:pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu> wrote:
So like you'd use like years and years and years of open source development for like your own personal gain?
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fimailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
I've been thinking about the feasibility of leveraging Pd as a development platform for commercial patches. Sort of like some (e.g. Twisted Tools) are using Reaktor for developing commercial-grade plug-ins. But instead of Reaktor I could rather use Pd, because it's a more open platform.
But if the development is for commercial purposes, there would need to be some sort of mechanism for closing the source. Is this possible or something worth looking at?
-Matti _______________________________________________ Pd-list@lists.iem.atmailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
I think if Pd was viable for many different users, it would be more attractive.
Commercial software is sometimes better quality than open source / free. Which can lend to better tools being developed for the platform since there’s a commercial incentive. Wonder e.g. why the Max platform is more popular, even if its commercial. Commerciality isn’t stopping people from using it.
-Matti
On May 7, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Pagano, Patrick <pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu mailto:pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu> wrote:
So like you'd use like years and years and years of open source development for like your own personal gain?
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
I’ve been thinking about the feasibility of leveraging Pd as a development platform for commercial patches. Sort of like some (e.g. Twisted Tools) are using Reaktor for developing commercial-grade plug-ins. But instead of Reaktor I could rather use Pd, because it’s a more open platform.
But if the development is for commercial purposes, there would need to be some sort of mechanism for closing the source. Is this possible or something worth looking at?
-Matti _______________________________________________ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
In fact Max uses some Pd code inside it. I released Pd under BSD license partly to encourage that possibility.
Pd is also used as part of game audio engines (I think the first game to use it was Spore, perhaps 10 years ago).
So leverage away. Your tax money pays my salary (at least, if you live in California it does :) so the product is there for you to use as you wish.
cheers Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 07:14:49PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
I think if Pd was viable for many different users, it would be more attractive.
Commercial software is sometimes better quality than open source / free. Which can lend to better tools being developed for the platform since there’s a commercial incentive. Wonder e.g. why the Max platform is more popular, even if its commercial. Commerciality isn’t stopping people from using it.
-Matti
On May 7, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Pagano, Patrick <pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu mailto:pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu> wrote:
So like you'd use like years and years and years of open source development for like your own personal gain?
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
I’ve been thinking about the feasibility of leveraging Pd as a development platform for commercial patches. Sort of like some (e.g. Twisted Tools) are using Reaktor for developing commercial-grade plug-ins. But instead of Reaktor I could rather use Pd, because it’s a more open platform.
But if the development is for commercial purposes, there would need to be some sort of mechanism for closing the source. Is this possible or something worth looking at?
-Matti _______________________________________________ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
I only found this: https://www.facebook.com/mviljamaa#
How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application? https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 19:53, Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu wrote:
In fact Max uses some Pd code inside it. I released Pd under BSD license partly to encourage that possibility.
Pd is also used as part of game audio engines (I think the first game to use it was Spore, perhaps 10 years ago).
So leverage away. Your tax money pays my salary (at least, if you live in California it does :) so the product is there for you to use as you wish.
cheers Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 07:14:49PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
I think if Pd was viable for many different users, it would be more attractive.
Commercial software is sometimes better quality than open source / free. Which can lend to better tools being developed for the platform since there’s a commercial incentive. Wonder e.g. why the Max platform is more popular, even if its commercial. Commerciality isn’t stopping people from using it.
-Matti
On May 7, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Pagano, Patrick <pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu mailto:pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu> wrote:
So like you'd use like years and years and years of open source development for like your own personal gain?
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
I’ve been thinking about the feasibility of leveraging Pd as a development platform for commercial patches. Sort of like some (e.g. Twisted Tools) are using Reaktor for developing commercial-grade plug-ins. But instead of Reaktor I could rather use Pd, because it’s a more open platform.
But if the development is for commercial purposes, there would need to be some sort of mechanism for closing the source. Is this possible or something worth looking at?
-Matti _______________________________________________ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and keep it a secret how the patch works. I don't think people often feel the need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
cheers Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
I only found this: https://www.facebook.com/mviljamaa#
How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application? https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone
-Matti
What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or perhaps LibPd? Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in Pd.
What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to Reaktor’s Blocks that would allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate developers to develop patches in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised patches.
Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. But I wouldn’t want to spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could do that using some other platform.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu wrote:
You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and keep it a secret how the patch works. I don't think people often feel the need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
cheers Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
I only found this:
How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application? https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone
-Matti
I don't think there's any way to distribute patches that vanilla Pd can read and run without making it easy for people to open them. At some level you'll have to write code.
cheers M
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:36:46PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or perhaps LibPd? Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in Pd.
What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to Reaktor’s Blocks that would allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate developers to develop patches in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised patches.
Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. But I wouldn’t want to spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could do that using some other platform.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu wrote:
You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and keep it a secret how the patch works. I don't think people often feel the need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
cheers Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
I only found this:
How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application? https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone
-Matti
But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches back to the community?
Have you seen Monolog X
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fimailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or perhaps LibPd? Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in Pd.
What I've been envisioning would be to create "modules" for Pd similar to Reaktor's Blocks that would allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate developers to develop patches in a more standardized "blocks" form, rather than as unstandardised patches.
Reason, I've been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. But I wouldn't want to spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could do that using some other platform.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edumailto:msp@ucsd.edu> wrote:
You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and keep it a secret how the patch works. I don't think people often feel the need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
cheers Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote: But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it's not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
I only found this:
How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application? https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone
-Matti
Pd-list@lists.iem.atmailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
I think being open to commercial development could make it attractive to develop e.g. high quality oscillators and filters for Pd. Commercial synthesisers and effects are often better than freeware.
Reaktor has a lot of good free ensembles, but development wise its also more refined product (i.e. the development ought to be less painful).
I think it’d be interesting to be able to have a platform where one can combine open source and commercial “modules”. Best of the both worlds, so to speak.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:04, Pagano, Patrick pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu wrote:
But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches back to the community?
Have you seen Monolog X
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or perhaps LibPd? Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in Pd.
What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to Reaktor’s Blocks that would allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate developers to develop patches in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised patches.
Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. But I wouldn’t want to spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could do that using some other platform.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edu mailto:msp@ucsd.edu> wrote:
You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and keep it a secret how the patch works. I don't think people often feel the need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
cheers Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
I only found this:
How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application? https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone <https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone>
-Matti
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Anyone know if compiling Pd patch to C could offer a possibility, e.g. as an extension of Pd?
There are some around: http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler
So patch -> C -> binary and then have Pd somehow open the binary as patch?
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:08, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote:
I think being open to commercial development could make it attractive to develop e.g. high quality oscillators and filters for Pd. Commercial synthesisers and effects are often better than freeware.
Reaktor has a lot of good free ensembles, but development wise its also more refined product (i.e. the development ought to be less painful).
I think it’d be interesting to be able to have a platform where one can combine open source and commercial “modules”. Best of the both worlds, so to speak.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:04, Pagano, Patrick <pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu mailto:pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu> wrote:
But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches back to the community?
Have you seen Monolog X
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or perhaps LibPd? Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in Pd.
What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to Reaktor’s Blocks that would allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate developers to develop patches in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised patches.
Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. But I wouldn’t want to spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could do that using some other platform.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edu mailto:msp@ucsd.edu> wrote:
You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and keep it a secret how the patch works. I don't think people often feel the need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
cheers Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
I only found this:
How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application? https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone <https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone>
-Matti
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Or even straight C -> binary and then have Pd open the binary as patch.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 22:01, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote:
Anyone know if compiling Pd patch to C could offer a possibility, e.g. as an extension of Pd?
There are some around: http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler
So patch -> C -> binary and then have Pd somehow open the binary as patch?
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:08, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
I think being open to commercial development could make it attractive to develop e.g. high quality oscillators and filters for Pd. Commercial synthesisers and effects are often better than freeware.
Reaktor has a lot of good free ensembles, but development wise its also more refined product (i.e. the development ought to be less painful).
I think it’d be interesting to be able to have a platform where one can combine open source and commercial “modules”. Best of the both worlds, so to speak.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:04, Pagano, Patrick <pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu mailto:pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu> wrote:
But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches back to the community?
Have you seen Monolog X
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or perhaps LibPd? Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in Pd.
What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to Reaktor’s Blocks that would allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate developers to develop patches in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised patches.
Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. But I wouldn’t want to spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could do that using some other platform.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edu mailto:msp@ucsd.edu> wrote:
You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and keep it a secret how the patch works. I don't think people often feel the need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
cheers Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
I only found this:
How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application? https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone <https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone>
-Matti
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
hi Matti - the only thing i've seen that is something similar to what you're asking is the Heavy toolchain from Enzien Audio based on the online Tannhauser compiler. it can convert a PD patch into C++ where it can then be used as a plugin for different platforms, including in game audio middleware. the service is a commercial service if the product you're planning to use is commercial in nature. at that point you could use it in something like JUCE to do what you need to make it a full plugin or standalone app. many commercial companies use PD or Max to prototype what they eventually sell as commercial software. Joe White is on the list and may have more info than me on commercial uses of Heavy: https://enzienaudio.com/
scott
On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote:
Or even straight C -> binary and then have Pd open the binary as patch.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 22:01, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote:
Anyone know if compiling Pd patch to C could offer a possibility, e.g. as an extension of Pd?
There are some around: http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler
So patch -> C -> binary and then have Pd somehow open the binary as patch?
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:08, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote:
I think being open to commercial development could make it attractive to develop e.g. high quality oscillators and filters for Pd. Commercial synthesisers and effects are often better than freeware.
Reaktor has a lot of good free ensembles, but development wise its also more refined product (i.e. the development ought to be less painful).
I think it’d be interesting to be able to have a platform where one can combine open source and commercial “modules”. Best of the both worlds, so to speak.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:04, Pagano, Patrick pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu wrote:
But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches back to the community?
Have you seen Monolog X
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote:
What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or perhaps LibPd? Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in Pd.
What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to Reaktor’s Blocks that would allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate developers to develop patches in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised patches.
Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. But I wouldn’t want to spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could do that using some other platform.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu wrote:
You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and
keep it a secret how the patch works. I don't think people often feel the
need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
cheers
Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
I only found this:
How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application?
https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone < https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone%3E
-Matti
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
It’s just that e.g. VSTs are fundamentally a limited format compared to Pure Data patches. There are some modular VST hosts, but not much something like Reaktor that combines both high- and low-level and customisation in the same environment.
At the KVR audio there was a late interest in developing perhaps yet another such platform: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=461790 http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=461790
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 22:24, Scott R. Looney scottrlooney@gmail.com wrote:
hi Matti - the only thing i've seen that is something similar to what you're asking is the Heavy toolchain from Enzien Audio based on the online Tannhauser compiler. it can convert a PD patch into C++ where it can then be used as a plugin for different platforms, including in game audio middleware. the service is a commercial service if the product you're planning to use is commercial in nature. at that point you could use it in something like JUCE to do what you need to make it a full plugin or standalone app. many commercial companies use PD or Max to prototype what they eventually sell as commercial software. Joe White is on the list and may have more info than me on commercial uses of Heavy: https://enzienaudio.com/ https://enzienaudio.com/
scott
On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote: Or even straight C -> binary and then have Pd open the binary as patch.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 22:01, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
Anyone know if compiling Pd patch to C could offer a possibility, e.g. as an extension of Pd?
There are some around: http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler
So patch -> C -> binary and then have Pd somehow open the binary as patch?
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:08, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
I think being open to commercial development could make it attractive to develop e.g. high quality oscillators and filters for Pd. Commercial synthesisers and effects are often better than freeware.
Reaktor has a lot of good free ensembles, but development wise its also more refined product (i.e. the development ought to be less painful).
I think it’d be interesting to be able to have a platform where one can combine open source and commercial “modules”. Best of the both worlds, so to speak.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:04, Pagano, Patrick <pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu mailto:pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu> wrote:
But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches back to the community?
Have you seen Monolog X
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 tel:%2B1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or perhaps LibPd? Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in Pd.
What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to Reaktor’s Blocks that would allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate developers to develop patches in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised patches.
Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. But I wouldn’t want to spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could do that using some other platform.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edu mailto:msp@ucsd.edu> wrote:
You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and keep it a secret how the patch works. I don't think people often feel the need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
cheers Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote: > But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary? > > I only found this: > > How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application? > https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone <https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone> > > -Matti >
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If your aim is to create a compiler for Pd patches (JIT or otherwise, proprietary or otherwise), I have the same faith in Miller sitting down and writing a formal language spec for Pd as I do in you succeeding. -Jonathan
On Saturday, May 7, 2016 3:33 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
It’s just that e.g. VSTs are fundamentally a limited format compared to Pure Data patches.There are some modular VST hosts, but not much something like Reaktor that combines bothhigh- and low-level and customisation in the same environment. At the KVR audio there was a late interest in developing perhaps yet another such platform:http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=461790 -Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 22:24, Scott R. Looney scottrlooney@gmail.com wrote: hi Matti - the only thing i've seen that is something similar to what you're asking is the Heavy toolchain from Enzien Audio based on the online Tannhauser compiler. it can convert a PD patch into C++ where it can then be used as a plugin for different platforms, including in game audio middleware. the service is a commercial service if the product you're planning to use is commercial in nature. at that point you could use it in something like JUCE to do what you need to make it a full plugin or standalone app. many commercial companies use PD or Max to prototype what they eventually sell as commercial software. Joe White is on the list and may have more info than me on commercial uses of Heavy: https://enzienaudio.com/ scott On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote:
Or even straight C -> binary and then have Pd open the binary as patch. -Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 22:01, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote: Anyone know if compiling Pd patch to C could offer a possibility, e.g. as an extension of Pd? There are some around:http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.htmlhttps://github.com/sharebrained/pd_... So patch -> C -> binary and then have Pd somehow open the binary as patch? -Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:08, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote: I think being open to commercial development could make it attractive to develop e.g. high quality oscillators and filters for Pd.Commercial synthesisers and effects are often better than freeware.
Reaktor has a lot of good free ensembles, but development wise its also more refined product (i.e. the development ought to be less painful). I think it’d be interesting to be able to have a platform where one can combine open source and commercial “modules”. Best of the both worlds, so to speak. -Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:04, Pagano, Patrick pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu wrote: But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches back to the community? Have you seen Monolog X
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.AInteractive Media & Education+1352.226.2016https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote:
What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or perhaps LibPd? Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in Pd.
What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to Reaktor’s Blocks that would allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate developers to develop patches in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised patches.
Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. But I wouldn’t want to spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could do that using some other platform.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu wrote:
You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and
keep it a secret how the patch works. I don't think people often feel the
need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
cheers
Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
I only found this:
How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application?
https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone
-Matti
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What about Pure Data C externs? How are they loaded into Pure Data? Are they in readable form?
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 23:19, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
If your aim is to create a compiler for Pd patches (JIT or otherwise, proprietary or otherwise), I have the same faith in Miller sitting down and writing a formal language spec for Pd as I do in you succeeding.
-Jonathan
On Saturday, May 7, 2016 3:33 PM, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote:
It’s just that e.g. VSTs are fundamentally a limited format compared to Pure Data patches. There are some modular VST hosts, but not much something like Reaktor that combines both high- and low-level and customisation in the same environment.
At the KVR audio there was a late interest in developing perhaps yet another such platform: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=461790 http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=461790
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 22:24, Scott R. Looney <scottrlooney@gmail.com mailto:scottrlooney@gmail.com> wrote:
hi Matti - the only thing i've seen that is something similar to what you're asking is the Heavy toolchain from Enzien Audio based on the online Tannhauser compiler. it can convert a PD patch into C++ where it can then be used as a plugin for different platforms, including in game audio middleware. the service is a commercial service if the product you're planning to use is commercial in nature. at that point you could use it in something like JUCE to do what you need to make it a full plugin or standalone app. many commercial companies use PD or Max to prototype what they eventually sell as commercial software. Joe White is on the list and may have more info than me on commercial uses of Heavy: https://enzienaudio.com/ https://enzienaudio.com/
scott
On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote: Or even straight C -> binary and then have Pd open the binary as patch.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 22:01, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
Anyone know if compiling Pd patch to C could offer a possibility, e.g. as an extension of Pd?
There are some around: http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler
So patch -> C -> binary and then have Pd somehow open the binary as patch?
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:08, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
I think being open to commercial development could make it attractive to develop e.g. high quality oscillators and filters for Pd. Commercial synthesisers and effects are often better than freeware.
Reaktor has a lot of good free ensembles, but development wise its also more refined product (i.e. the development ought to be less painful).
I think it’d be interesting to be able to have a platform where one can combine open source and commercial “modules”. Best of the both worlds, so to speak.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:04, Pagano, Patrick <pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu mailto:pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu> wrote:
But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches back to the community?
Have you seen Monolog X
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 applewebdata://2DEC348E-236D-44F1-A1EC-DB7BA4546598 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or perhaps LibPd? Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in Pd.
What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to Reaktor’s Blocks that would allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate developers to develop patches in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised patches.
Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. But I wouldn’t want to spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could do that using some other platform.
-Matti
> On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edu mailto:msp@ucsd.edu> wrote: > > You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and > keep it a secret how the patch works. I don't think people often feel the > need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do. > > cheers > Miller > > On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote: >> But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary? >> >> I only found this: >> >> How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application? >> https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone <https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone> >> >> -Matti >>
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What about Pure Data C externs?> How are they loaded into Pure Data? Are they in readable form?
They are C binaries, so they are as readable as any other C binary when they are loaded into Pd. But you can certainly keep a private repository for the code and release/sell the binaries using whatever proprietary license you want. -Jonathan
Want to make some dough off of pd?
Make a Pd Unity3D plugin so i can drop my patches in as sound sources/effects in Unity3D or UDK without custom coding.
pp
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Audio and Projection Design Faculty Digital Worlds Institute University of Florida, USA (352)294-2020 ________________________________ From: Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 3:13 PM To: Pagano, Patrick Cc: pd-list@iem.at; Miller Puckette; pd-list@mail.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] Can you close source of Pd patches (for commercial development)?
Or even straight C -> binary and then have Pd open the binary as patch.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 22:01, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fimailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
Anyone know if compiling Pd patch to C could offer a possibility, e.g. as an extension of Pd?
There are some around: http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler
So patch -> C -> binary and then have Pd somehow open the binary as patch?
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:08, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fimailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
I think being open to commercial development could make it attractive to develop e.g. high quality oscillators and filters for Pd. Commercial synthesisers and effects are often better than freeware.
Reaktor has a lot of good free ensembles, but development wise its also more refined product (i.e. the development ought to be less painful).
I think it'd be interesting to be able to have a platform where one can combine open source and commercial "modules". Best of the both worlds, so to speak.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:04, Pagano, Patrick <pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edumailto:pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu> wrote:
But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches back to the community?
Have you seen Monolog X
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fimailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or perhaps LibPd? Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in Pd.
What I've been envisioning would be to create "modules" for Pd similar to Reaktor's Blocks that would allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate developers to develop patches in a more standardized "blocks" form, rather than as unstandardised patches.
Reason, I've been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. But I wouldn't want to spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could do that using some other platform.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edumailto:msp@ucsd.edu> wrote:
You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and keep it a secret how the patch works. I don't think people often feel the need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
cheers Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote: But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it's not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
I only found this:
How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application? https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone
-Matti
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+1 on Patrick's idea! and to continue to some extent where Patrick left off, you can use magicolo's uPD project as a jumping off point: https://github.com/Magicolo/uPD. i tried it out but and had issues understanding this approach personally but i think it might hold some potential, as it can instance PD multiple times rather than just once.
best, scott
On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Pagano, Patrick pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu wrote:
Want to make some dough off of pd?
Make a Pd Unity3D plugin so i can drop my patches in as sound sources/effects in Unity3D or UDK without custom coding.
pp
*Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A* Audio and Projection Design Faculty Digital Worlds Institute University of Florida, USA (352)294-2020
*From:* Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi *Sent:* Saturday, May 7, 2016 3:13 PM *To:* Pagano, Patrick *Cc:* pd-list@iem.at; Miller Puckette; pd-list@mail.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] Can you close source of Pd patches (for commercial development)?
Or even straight C -> binary and then have Pd open the binary as patch.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 22:01, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote:
Anyone know if compiling Pd patch to C could offer a possibility, e.g. as an extension of Pd?
There are some around: http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler
So patch -> C -> binary and then have Pd somehow open the binary as patch?
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:08, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote:
I think being open to commercial development could make it attractive to develop e.g. high quality oscillators and filters for Pd. Commercial synthesisers and effects are often better than freeware.
Reaktor has a lot of good free ensembles, but development wise its also more refined product (i.e. the development ought to be less painful).
I think it’d be interesting to be able to have a platform where one can combine open source and commercial “modules”. Best of the both worlds, so to speak.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:04, Pagano, Patrick pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu wrote:
But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches back to the community?
Have you seen Monolog X
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote:
What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or perhaps LibPd? Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in Pd.
What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to Reaktor’s Blocks that would allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate developers to develop patches in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised patches.
Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. But I wouldn’t want to spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could do that using some other platform.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu wrote:
You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and
keep it a secret how the patch works. I don't think people often feel the
need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
cheers
Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
I only found this:
How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application?
https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone < https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone%3E
-Matti
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Several of them like magicolo are what I can "proof of concept" They are not integrated nor worthy of purchase so to speak. I am quite familiar with github and Google.
Sent from my iPad
On May 7, 2016, at 4:10 PM, Scott R. Looney <scottrlooney@gmail.commailto:scottrlooney@gmail.com> wrote:
+1 on Patrick's idea! and to continue to some extent where Patrick left off, you can use magicolo's uPD project as a jumping off point: https://github.com/Magicolo/uPD. i tried it out but and had issues understanding this approach personally but i think it might hold some potential, as it can instance PD multiple times rather than just once.
best, scott
On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Pagano, Patrick <pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edumailto:pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu> wrote:
Want to make some dough off of pd?
Make a Pd Unity3D plugin so i can drop my patches in as sound sources/effects in Unity3D or UDK without custom coding.
pp
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Audio and Projection Design Faculty Digital Worlds Institute University of Florida, USA (352)294-2020tel:%28352%29294-2020 ________________________________ From: Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fimailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 3:13 PM To: Pagano, Patrick Cc: pd-list@iem.atmailto:pd-list@iem.at; Miller Puckette; pd-list@mail.iem.atmailto:pd-list@mail.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] Can you close source of Pd patches (for commercial development)?
Or even straight C -> binary and then have Pd open the binary as patch.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 22:01, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fimailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
Anyone know if compiling Pd patch to C could offer a possibility, e.g. as an extension of Pd?
There are some around: http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler
So patch -> C -> binary and then have Pd somehow open the binary as patch?
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:08, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fimailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
I think being open to commercial development could make it attractive to develop e.g. high quality oscillators and filters for Pd. Commercial synthesisers and effects are often better than freeware.
Reaktor has a lot of good free ensembles, but development wise its also more refined product (i.e. the development ought to be less painful).
I think it’d be interesting to be able to have a platform where one can combine open source and commercial “modules”. Best of the both worlds, so to speak.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 21:04, Pagano, Patrick <pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edumailto:pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu> wrote:
But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches back to the community?
Have you seen Monolog X
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016tel:%2B1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fimailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or perhaps LibPd? Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in Pd.
What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to Reaktor’s Blocks that would allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate developers to develop patches in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised patches.
Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. But I wouldn’t want to spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could do that using some other platform.
-Matti
On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edumailto:msp@ucsd.edu> wrote:
You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and keep it a secret how the patch works. I don't think people often feel the need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
cheers Miller
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote: But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
I only found this:
How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application? https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone
-Matti
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On 2016년 05월 08일 01:53, Miller Puckette wrote:
In fact Max uses some Pd code inside it. I released Pd under BSD license partly to encourage that possibility.
Pd is also used as part of game audio engines (I think the first game to use it was Spore, perhaps 10 years ago).
Unfortunately I have to correct you there. We learned from Kent Jolly at the Pure Data convention 2011 that they have used their own audio engine in Spore, but used Pure Data for the procedural sound logic!
https://www.uni-weimar.de/medien/wiki/PDCON:Conference/Using_Pure_Data_in_Sp...
Aha... thanks. I still regret messing that convention...
M
On Sun, May 08, 2016 at 08:38:03PM +0900, Max wrote:
On 2016년 05월 08일 01:53, Miller Puckette wrote:
In fact Max uses some Pd code inside it. I released Pd under BSD license partly to encourage that possibility.
Pd is also used as part of game audio engines (I think the first game to use it was Spore, perhaps 10 years ago).
Unfortunately I have to correct you there. We learned from Kent Jolly at the Pure Data convention 2011 that they have used their own audio engine in Spore, but used Pure Data for the procedural sound logic!
https://www.uni-weimar.de/medien/wiki/PDCON:Conference/Using_Pure_Data_in_Sp...
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@Patrick
heavy http://enzienaudio.com/ converts straight to Unity plugins, see here as an example: https://enzienaudio.com/h/diplojocus/woosh/ you can download the Unity plugin (we compile the binary for you as well) and drag it straight into your project. You can use the C# wrapper and instantiate it on game components or use the specific audio mixer plugin. Bit more info here: https://enzienaudio.com/docs/unity.html
Unreal integration should be possible, I just haven't got round to it yet.
@Matti
FYI you can also use heavy to create Pd externals (from a Pd patch), it'll also benefit in some cases from a speed boost.
Cheers, Joe
On 8 May 2016 at 18:47, Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu wrote:
Aha... thanks. I still regret messing that convention...
M
On Sun, May 08, 2016 at 08:38:03PM +0900, Max wrote:
On 2016년 05월 08일 01:53, Miller Puckette wrote:
In fact Max uses some Pd code inside it. I released Pd under BSD
license
partly to encourage that possibility.
Pd is also used as part of game audio engines (I think the first game
to use
it was Spore, perhaps 10 years ago).
Unfortunately I have to correct you there. We learned from Kent Jolly at the Pure Data convention 2011 that they have used their own audio engine in Spore, but used Pure Data for the procedural sound logic!
https://www.uni-weimar.de/medien/wiki/PDCON:Conference/Using_Pure_Data_in_Sp...
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2016-05-09 11:47 GMT-03:00 Joe White white.joe4@gmail.com:
FYI you can also use heavy to create Pd externals (from a Pd patch), it'll also benefit in some cases from a speed boost.
this sounds like something related to max's gen~
and it'd be good to have something similar in Pd Vanilla
On 07/05/2016 18:14, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
Wonder e.g. why the Max platform is more popular, even if its commercial. Commerciality isn’t stopping people from using it.
What kind of (scientific) research have you conducted to conclude that "Max platform is more popular"?
What is your definition and criteria for "popularity"? What is your sample group(s)? What data have you collected and taken into account to support your statement?
Thanks.
Don't ship the entire patch. For example, suppose I'm selling a patch where the user can input single word "easing" styles like "ease-in-out", "rubber-band", "drunken-walk", etc., and it outputs lists of numbers that can be input into [vline~]. I'd do it this way: [style-name(|[my-abstraction]|[ (|[vline~] Which I can ship as [style-name(|[netsend] [netreceive]|[ (|[vline~]
I'm ignoring the interface for netsend/netreceive for the moment, but you get the idea. The "business" logic stays on your machine, and remains a black box to your agent until you trust him/her.
-Jonathan
On Thursday, May 12, 2016 6:28 AM, Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsutton@gmail.com> wrote:
On 07/05/2016 18:14, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
Wonder e.g. why the Max platform is more popular, even if its commercial. Commerciality isn’t stopping people from using it.
What kind of (scientific) research have you conducted to conclude that "Max platform is more popular"?
What is your definition and criteria for "popularity"? What is your sample group(s)? What data have you collected and taken into account to support your statement?
Thanks.
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I think if Pd was viable for many different users, it would be more attractive.
Commercial software is sometimes better quality than open source / free. Which can lend to better tools being developed for the platform since there’s a commercial incentive. Wonder e.g. why the Max platform is more popular, even if its commercial. Commerciality isn’t stopping people from using it.
-Matti
On May 7, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Pagano, Patrick <pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu mailto:pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu> wrote:
So like you'd use like years and years and years of open source development for like your own personal gain?
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Matti Viljamaa <mviljamaa@kapsi.fi mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi> wrote:
I’ve been thinking about the feasibility of leveraging Pd as a development platform for commercial patches. Sort of like some (e.g. Twisted Tools) are using Reaktor for developing commercial-grade plug-ins. But instead of Reaktor I could rather use Pd, because it’s a more open platform.
But if the development is for commercial purposes, there would need to be some sort of mechanism for closing the source. Is this possible or something worth looking at?
-Matti _______________________________________________ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Yes! Of course! One of the economic benefits of open-source software is that it can reduce development costs. Every good engineer should know this.
DO pay attention to licensing details. You do have an obligation to the license holders and your customers. This is what makes the playing field level for companies using open source software in products.
On May 7, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Pagano, Patrick pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu
wrote:
So like you'd use like years and years and years of open source
development for like your own personal gain?
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Interactive Media & Education +1352.226.2016 https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/
On May 7, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Matti Viljamaa mviljamaa@kapsi.fi wrote:
I’ve been thinking about the feasibility of leveraging Pd as a
development platform for commercial patches. Sort of like some (e.g. Twisted Tools) are using Reaktor for developing commercial-grade plug-ins.
But instead of Reaktor I could rather use Pd, because it’s a more open
platform.
But if the development is for commercial purposes, there would need to
be some sort of mechanism for closing the source. Is this possible or something worth looking at?
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