hi *!
am i the only one who thinks that non-configurable autoconnection to jack and alsa-midi ports is a) wrong and b) a major pain in the ass?
is there a way to prevent pd from doing this? particularly in the alsa midi case, it's a really blatant misfeature, because in the presence of a software midi thru port, it will immediately create a parameter loop which will make any connected midi controller go wild and burn its motors.
my preferred behaviour would be no autoconnect at all. second best option is configurable auto-connect ports. i wonder what the rationale behind the current behaviour is? i mean, pd is all about drawing wires, so surely a pd user can be expected to be able to connect his/her audio and midi ports correctly?
best,
jörn
Jörn,
this is a quick shoot from the hips, perhaps it can help:
- Jörn Nettingsmeier nettings@stackingdwarves.net [2012-10-29 20:38]:
hi *!
am i the only one who thinks that non-configurable autoconnection to jack and alsa-midi ports is a) wrong and b) a major pain in the ass?
IOhannes once wrote an external called (perhaps) [aconnect] or similar, which I think lets you do and choose alsa (midi) connections from within Pd.
is there a way to prevent pd from doing this? particularly in the alsa midi case, it's a really blatant misfeature, because in the presence of a software midi thru port, it will immediately create a parameter loop which will make any connected midi controller go wild and burn its motors.
If this is the case for the BCF2000 try using its "U-3" or "S-3" mode, where it will not echo the received midi data to its outputs.
best, Jo
my preferred behaviour would be no autoconnect at all. second best option is configurable auto-connect ports. i wonder what the rationale behind the current behaviour is? i mean, pd is all about drawing wires, so surely a pd user can be expected to be able to connect his/her audio and midi ports correctly?
best,
jörn
-- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487
Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT
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On 30/10/12 06:12, Johanna Nowak wrote:
Jörn,
this is a quick shoot from the hips, perhaps it can help:
- Jörn Nettingsmeiernettings@stackingdwarves.net [2012-10-29 20:38]:
is there a way to prevent pd from doing this? particularly in the alsa midi case, it's a really blatant misfeature, because in the presence of a software midi thru port, it will immediately create a parameter loop which will make any connected midi controller go wild and burn its motors.
If this is the case for the BCF2000 try using its "U-3" or "S-3" mode, where it will not echo the received midi data to its outputs.
The BCF2000 and the Pd sliders work very well together with feedback - not sure exactly which side does the work to allow the loopback to work well, but it does, it is possible to use those loops to give manual control from the BCF2000 at the same time as Pd sliders and calculated values are being used.
Simon
johanna, simon,
On 10/30/2012 01:04 AM, Simon Wise wrote:
On 30/10/12 06:12, Johanna Nowak wrote:
Jörn,
this is a quick shoot from the hips, perhaps it can help:
- Jörn Nettingsmeiernettings@stackingdwarves.net [2012-10-29 20:38]:
is there a way to prevent pd from doing this? particularly in the alsa midi case, it's a really blatant misfeature, because in the presence of a software midi thru port, it will immediately create a parameter loop which will make any connected midi controller go wild and burn its motors.
If this is the case for the BCF2000 try using its "U-3" or "S-3" mode, where it will not echo the received midi data to its outputs.
The BCF2000 and the Pd sliders work very well together with feedback - not sure exactly which side does the work to allow the loopback to work well, but it does, it is possible to use those loops to give manual control from the BCF2000 at the same time as Pd sliders and calculated values are being used.
i think you misread my post - the feedback is caused by pd autoconnecting to a software midi thru port, not by the BCF.
meanwhile, i'm following michael's advice, which solves the problem at least for midi. jack autoconnection is still darn irritating, though...
Quick question... is this autoconnect problem only relevant to midi or does it also affect jack audio connections? I'd like to try to fix this but never use jack so am not sure where to start.
thanks Miller
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 07:44:59PM +0100, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
johanna, simon,
On 10/30/2012 01:04 AM, Simon Wise wrote:
On 30/10/12 06:12, Johanna Nowak wrote:
Jörn,
this is a quick shoot from the hips, perhaps it can help:
- Jörn Nettingsmeiernettings@stackingdwarves.net [2012-10-29 20:38]:
is there a way to prevent pd from doing this? particularly in the alsa midi case, it's a really blatant misfeature, because in the presence of a software midi thru port, it will immediately create a parameter loop which will make any connected midi controller go wild and burn its motors.
If this is the case for the BCF2000 try using its "U-3" or "S-3" mode, where it will not echo the received midi data to its outputs.
The BCF2000 and the Pd sliders work very well together with feedback - not sure exactly which side does the work to allow the loopback to work well, but it does, it is possible to use those loops to give manual control from the BCF2000 at the same time as Pd sliders and calculated values are being used.
i think you misread my post - the feedback is caused by pd autoconnecting to a software midi thru port, not by the BCF.
meanwhile, i'm following michael's advice, which solves the problem at least for midi. jack autoconnection is still darn irritating, though...
-- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487
Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hi Miller,
On 10/30/2012 08:05 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
Quick question... is this autoconnect problem only relevant to midi or does it also affect jack audio connections? I'd like to try to fix this but never use jack so am not sure where to start.
well, for MIDI I can live with the workaround suggested by Michael and elsewhere by IOhannes, but there is no such workaround to prevent JACK autoconnection afaik.
Pd should just not attempt autoconnection when using JACK, unless the ports to connect to have been explicitly configured by the user. JACK setups tend to be more complex than the usual first-2-channels-to-speakers assumption, so Pd _will_ guess wrong most of the time, sometimes with painfully loud and embarrassing results. No user-friendly JACK client should ever autoconnect without being asked to, because this effectively prevents JACK session managers from doing their job.
Something like this, maybe?:
pd -jack --> no connection
pd -jack -jackin system:capture_25 system:capture_26
-jackout system:playback_17 system:playback_18
system:playback_19 system:playback_20
--> connect to specified ports
having the same options in ~/.pdsettings would be great.
Best,
Jörn
On 10/30/2012 08:05 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
Quick question... is this autoconnect problem only relevant to midi or does it also affect jack audio connections? I'd like to try to fix this but never use jack so am not sure where to start.
my original implementation for alsa-MIDI (which is still used) autoconnects if only one midi-port is opened it will autoconnect to all available midi-ports. this is meant for easy setup (after talking to nando at some lac a while ago), but due to midi-thru is making more troubles than it solves. for me it is fine to remove the autoconnect altogether (and if needed i can provide a patch to fix this)
fgmads IOhannes
OK.. I think I can figure out how to take autoconnect out - just committed and git pushed for your inspection :)
M
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 09:40:02PM +0100, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
On 10/30/2012 08:05 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
Quick question... is this autoconnect problem only relevant to midi or does it also affect jack audio connections? I'd like to try to fix this but never use jack so am not sure where to start.
my original implementation for alsa-MIDI (which is still used) autoconnects if only one midi-port is opened it will autoconnect to all available midi-ports. this is meant for easy setup (after talking to nando at some lac a while ago), but due to midi-thru is making more troubles than it solves. for me it is fine to remove the autoconnect altogether (and if needed i can provide a patch to fix this)
fgmads IOhannes
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On 10/30/2012 10:45 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
OK.. I think I can figure out how to take autoconnect out - just committed and git pushed for your inspection :)
just noticed how well encapsulated the autoconnect feature has been implemented. made it easy to disable :-)
fgmadsr IOhannes
On 30/10/12 21:40, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
On 10/30/2012 08:05 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
Quick question... is this autoconnect problem only relevant to midi or does it also affect jack audio connections? I'd like to try to fix this but never use jack so am not sure where to start.
maybe a startup flag and/or preference (off by default)?
Lorenzo.
my original implementation for alsa-MIDI (which is still used) autoconnects if only one midi-port is opened it will autoconnect to all available midi-ports. this is meant for easy setup (after talking to nando at some lac a while ago), but due to midi-thru is making more troubles than it solves. for me it is fine to remove the autoconnect altogether (and if needed i can provide a patch to fix this)
fgmads IOhannes
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On 2012-10-31 11:41, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
or does it also affect jack audio connections? I'd like to try to fix this but never use jack so am not sure where to start.
maybe a startup flag and/or preference (off by default)?
i think it's quite easy to setup a permament connection using 3rd party tools like qjackctl or patchage (or even my [aconnect] external :-))
so Pd could be left blessfully unaware about all the connection stuff and leave it to software that are good at that.
fgmasdr IOhannes
On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 11:55:17 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at
wrote:
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On 2012-10-31 11:41, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
or does it also affect jack audio connections? I'd like to try to fix this but never use jack so am not sure where to start.
maybe a startup flag and/or preference (off by default)?
i think it's quite easy to setup a permament connection using 3rd party tools like qjackctl or patchage (or even my [aconnect] external
:-))so Pd could be left blessfully unaware about all the connection stuff and leave it to software that are good at that.
atm, a lot of software are doing auto-connection, and there is no good way
to control this IMO atm. qjackctl has the ability to auto-connect apps,
but not to auto-disconnect.
I do prefer that apps do not autoconnect, but at the same time, I don't
mind having the option.
I would vote for adding a toggle for this in pd jack setup.
fgmasdr IOhannes -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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On Wed, 2012-10-31 at 12:10 +0100, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 11:55:17 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at
wrote:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2012-10-31 11:41, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
or does it also affect jack audio connections? I'd like to try to fix this but never use jack so am not sure where to start.
maybe a startup flag and/or preference (off by default)?
i think it's quite easy to setup a permament connection using 3rd party tools like qjackctl or patchage (or even my [aconnect] external
:-))so Pd could be left blessfully unaware about all the connection stuff and leave it to software that are good at that.
atm, a lot of software are doing auto-connection, and there is no good way
to control this IMO atm. qjackctl has the ability to auto-connect apps,
but not to auto-disconnect. I do prefer that apps do not autoconnect, but at the same time, I don't
mind having the option. I would vote for adding a toggle for this in pd jack setup.
While we're at it, another problem is that Pd disappears in Jack when turning DSP off and auto-connects again, when turning DSP back on. Touching the DSP toggle completely messes up your connections in Jack.
DSP on/off and audio-API on/off should be treated as different things.
Miller promised a fix for that in 0.44 (if he didn't forget), though.
Roman
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On 2012-10-31 12:10, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
I would vote for adding a toggle for this in pd jack setup.
just to be nitpicky (and i have to admit that this is something that should have been said right from the beginning): the alsa-midi part has exactly nothing to do with jack. so the toggle should be somewhere else.
(i think the reason for the confusion often comes from the fact that qJackCtl originally provided patchbays for both jack-audio and alsa-midi (and now it provides an additional patchbay for jack-midi))
fgamsrd IOhannes
On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 13:20:53 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at
wrote:
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On 2012-10-31 12:10, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
I would vote for adding a toggle for this in pd jack setup.
just to be nitpicky (and i have to admit that this is something that should have been said right from the beginning): the alsa-midi part has exactly nothing to do with jack. so the toggle should be somewhere else.
(i think the reason for the confusion often comes from the fact that qJackCtl originally provided patchbays for both jack-audio and alsa-midi (and now it provides an additional patchbay for jack-midi))
Ah, yeah. Sorry. I was actually only talking about jack audio.
As for midi, I don't have an opinion.
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 4:26 AM, Jörn Nettingsmeier nettings@stackingdwarves.net wrote:
hi *!
am i the only one who thinks that non-configurable autoconnection to jack and alsa-midi ports is a) wrong and b) a major pain in the ass?
is there a way to prevent pd from doing this?
If you setup PD with more than one alsa midi port then it seems that autoconnect is automatically disabled. Probably the easiest workaround.
-
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
IOhannes m zmölnig
-
Johanna Nowak -
Jörn Nettingsmeier -
Kaj Ailomaa -
Lorenzo Sutton -
michael noble -
Miller Puckette -
Roman Haefeli -
Simon Wise