Now there's an idea! If some donations could be had to offer up bounty money, I'd say a few more of us would be inclined to pitch in. Also, has pd been in the Goggle Summer of Code? ... I'm unfamiliar with the dev setup but have there been any "coding camps" where people get together to just implement something, just do it for like a weekend? It is always nice to tackle a problem with someone to bounce ideas off of in person. Couchsurfing.com, an online lend-your-couch travel networking collective, has a week long code session every 6 months I believe. Of course the participants get a free place to stay, etc but I don't see how something like that couldn't be sponsored for pd.
Personally, I'd like to jump into some pd dev but I am no so sure where to start where it would be most effective (other then segmented patch cords :P).
i read your mail as a pledge for a bounty system - is that right?
Am 06.12.2007 um 20:08 schrieb Kyle Klipowicz:
And this is precisely the unfortunate reason why the open source world will (almost) always lag behind the commercial world of consumer software. When developers make their bread and butter based upon if the consumer buys, they're more likely to pay attention to and implement the wishes of their users. Take Ableton. They actively parse their online forums for feature requests...and then implement them when a critical mass is reached.
There are some exceptions in the FOSS world. Ubuntu is quite user friendly (with the support of a large endowment from a very wealthy organization with a charter specifically devoted to bringing Linux to the non-programmer set of the world). Firefox is giving IE a run for it's money (although the primary codebase from FF comes from the old commercial, closed source Netscape).
I know that Hans' statement re everyone becoming a developer is true in theory, but in reality people who want to rapidly prototype a project with something like Pd or Max are using these applications precisely because they do not want to code in C.
After reading Marius' post re GEM vs. Jitter, it is painfully apparent that the capitalist/consumer model of software engineering has a few aspects to it that are difficult for the FOSS community to compete with. Namely monetary and human resources and the external pressure to meet the requests of the user in order to ensure a continuous flow of financial support. When you code for a hobby or yourself, it is difficult or even impossible to be bothered with these things, and rightly so. Without compensation, there's often little scope (or time) outside one's own projects for developers in the FOSS world. This is unfortunate, but as I see it, true.
Question is, what can be done to change this or compete? Or should Pd just become the thing that hobbyist programmers use, while Max takes the stage as the "serious" tool for rapidly prototyping interactive A/V artworks? I hope that this is not the case...
No flames meant in this mail, just compassionate thought-mulling.
~Kyle
On Dec 6, 2007 1:21 AM, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
That's exactly the point: From this thread it seems that many of those people who would be able to implement segmented patchcords aren't interested in that feature. (You'd be one of the exceptions.) So until someone comes along who wants seg-cords in Pd and at the same time could write the code, the feature stays missing. That's not unusual wiht open source software: features, the developers need, get implemented faster, others maybe never.
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On Dec 6, 2007, at 2:54 PM, Daniel Wilcox wrote:
Now there's an idea! If some donations could be had to offer up
bounty money, I'd say a few more of us would be inclined to pitch in.
Patches welcome! ;) Seriously, if anyone wants to set this up, I
think it could work. In the past, some people objected to the idea
since they didn't think it's fair (check the archives). I think it
could be done fair if people are directly sponsored the work they
wanted done. Maybe there is a site that provides this service
already? Sourceforge has started something like that, but I don't
know the details.
Also, has pd been in the Goggle Summer of Code?
Yup, there were two funded projects last summer. The number of
funded slots that google provides is directly related to how many
project submissions there are, so next summer, we should really work
together to make sure there are lots of submissions. I mean we can
actually help write the applications together on the list.
... I'm unfamiliar with the dev setup but have there been any
"coding camps" where people get together to just implement something, just do it for like a
weekend? It is always nice to tackle a problem with someone to bounce ideas off of in person. Couchsurfing.com,
an online lend-your-couch travel networking collective, has a week long code session every 6 months
I believe. Of course the participants get a free place to stay, etc but I don't see how something like that
couldn't be sponsored for pd.
I think a coding camp is an awesome idea, I would love that! The
problem for me is that there are few Pd people in the NYC area. Or
at least not so many who come to the patching circles that we run
about every month or so. If there was a way to bring more people to
the patching circles, I am willing to make the effort. For example,
I can host people at my house. Come January, I'll have a pull out
bed, a mattress in the office, and even an inflatable mattress also.
In addition, if it is during the early summer, I think I could
organize rooms at the Polytechnic dorm for $40 a night, which is very
cheap for NYC (the youth hostels are more).
Personally, I'd like to jump into some pd dev but I am no so sure
where to start where it would be most effective (other then
segmented patch cords :P).
I think it's best to work on something that you are interested in,
but I'll happily make suggestions if you want. :-)
.hc
i read your mail as a pledge for a bounty system - is that right?
Am 06.12.2007 um 20:08 schrieb Kyle Klipowicz:
And this is precisely the unfortunate reason why the open source
world
will (almost) always lag behind the commercial world of consumer software. When developers make their bread and butter based upon if the consumer buys, they're more likely to pay attention to and implement the wishes of their users. Take Ableton. They actively
parse
their online forums for feature requests...and then implement them when a critical mass is reached.
There are some exceptions in the FOSS world. Ubuntu is quite user friendly (with the support of a large endowment from a very wealthy organization with a charter specifically devoted to bringing
Linux to
the non-programmer set of the world). Firefox is giving IE a run for it's money (although the primary codebase from FF comes from the old commercial, closed source Netscape).
I know that Hans' statement re everyone becoming a developer is true in theory, but in reality people who want to rapidly prototype a project with something like Pd or Max are using these applications precisely because they do not want to code in C.
After reading Marius' post re GEM vs. Jitter, it is painfully
apparent
that the capitalist/consumer model of software engineering has a few aspects to it that are difficult for the FOSS community to compete with. Namely monetary and human resources and the external
pressure to
meet the requests of the user in order to ensure a continuous
flow of
financial support. When you code for a hobby or yourself, it is difficult or even impossible to be bothered with these things, and rightly so. Without compensation, there's often little scope (or
time)
outside one's own projects for developers in the FOSS world. This is unfortunate, but as I see it, true.
Question is, what can be done to change this or compete? Or
should Pd
just become the thing that hobbyist programmers use, while Max takes the stage as the "serious" tool for rapidly prototyping interactive A/V artworks? I hope that this is not the case...
No flames meant in this mail, just compassionate thought-mulling.
~Kyle
On Dec 6, 2007 1:21 AM, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
That's exactly the point: From this thread it seems that many of those people who would be able to implement segmented patchcords aren't interested in that feature. (You'd be one of the exceptions.) So until someone comes along who wants seg-cords in Pd and at the same time could write the code, the feature stays missing. That's not unusual wiht open source software: features, the developers need, get implemented faster, others maybe never.
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-- Dan Wilcox danomatika www.robotcowboy.com _______________________________________________ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido!
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Daniel Wilcox -
Hans-Christoph Steiner